Realm Merger of Tara and Coria

[DamnTaffer]

A rule can be intended to prevent more than one thing, for example, a realm which has largely lost a war moving its remaining territories as much as possible into a third realm to prevent there enemy gaining there lands, realms merging into super powers certainly has its issues in the game however, setting precedent that upon defeat realms can dive for cover in a neutral realm allowing players to keep titles and such forth sets a terrible precedent which damages the game immensely. Claiming the "spirit" of a rule like this is bull!@#$ and limits the restrictions that a very good intelligent rule places on the game 

You are correct on the technical aspects of this statement, but you are missing what I believe to be the intent of the rule. It is intended to prevent realms from peacefully agreeing to band together to form superpowers, as this stifles conflict. If two realms have been at war and one of them is eventually beaten down and surrenders, it is acceptable for that realm to agree to terms that involve its regions being transferred away, within the limits of game mechanics. It's the two realms at peace merging together that we're trying to prevent. You can point out that Tara and Coria are at peace, but the important element in this case is that Coria has been effectively destroyed; with no capital, the realm is doomed. Its nobles cannot recruit or cash bonds, and its regions are slowly going rogue with no capital support. Their decision as a defeated realm to join Tara is acceptable within the spirit of the realm merger rule, or at least that is my interpretation.

Seeing as I'm rather close to this case (being a noble of Silnaria) I will recuse myself from voting on the outcome.

[Geronus]

A rule can be intended to prevent more than one thing, for example, a realm which has largely lost a war moving its remaining territories as much as possible into a third realm to prevent there enemy gaining there lands, realms merging into super powers certainly has its issues in the game however, setting precedent that upon defeat realms can dive for cover in a neutral realm allowing players to keep titles and such forth sets a terrible precedent which damages the game immensely. Claiming the "spirit" of a rule like this is bull!@#$ and limits the restrictions that a very good intelligent rule places on the game

Tom has never been a fan of maintaining an exhaustive list of rules and technicalities, therefore quite a few of them require interpreting in any given situation since they tend to be fairly non-specific. That is largely our function, and also one reason why these cases are public, so that we get the opinion of the community and everyone can see our reasoning.

Why do you think a Not Guilty verdict in this situation would be bad for the game? This is far from the first time this has happened. One example that I encountered a few years ago was a number of Caerwynian regions (including, I think, the city of Via) joining Asylon once their defeat at Astrum's hands became inevitable. I'm sure other people could come up with additional examples. It's not a common occurrence because it usually only comes about when a realm is effectively destroyed; not an every day occurrence.

[Munro]

I'm sorry but I really fail to see how this is a realm merger.  Saeculo knew he could find sanctuary in Tara, his realm was destroyed, Merlin had ordered the use of torture against him and had tried to kill him with infils so he sought protection in Tara. Sicarius who was ruler remained with Coria and I had no intention of him moving to Tara whilst Coria still existed.  The fact the region revolted quite a few turns (a day at least as far as I'm aware) after Saeculo moved to Tara was completely out of my hands.  How this can be seen as a realm merger is extremely confusing for me.

If people don't want this situation to arise,  the last region of a 'realm' shouldn't be allowed to revolt to another realm.  I'm assuming TH didn't know that Lothruin revolted rather and thought I'd changed Duchies, otherwise I'd state this was a very petty accusation against me.

[Dante Silverfire]

Merlin had ordered the use of torture against him

This at least isn't factual.

I'm assuming TH didn't know that Lothruin revolted rather and thought I'd changed Duchies, otherwise I'd state this was a very petty accusation against me.

I received no information of the region revolting prior to posting this. My realm was quite confused how it was even possible so I assumed a bug had occurred to allow it to happen. We were in the middle of a takeover of Menedor when Saeculo switched allegiance of Menedor to Tara. Then, we moved our troops to Lothruin immediately thereafter, which while it was a Corian region when we left, was a Taran region when we arrived. We had no idea how this occurred.

[Geronus]

I received no information of the region revolting prior to posting this. My realm was quite confused how it was even possible so I assumed a bug had occurred to allow it to happen. We were in the middle of a takeover of Menedor when Saeculo switched allegiance of Menedor to Tara. Then, we moved our troops to Lothruin immediately thereafter, which while it was a Corian region when we left, was a Taran region when we arrived. We had no idea how this occurred.

I did point this out in game, though that may have been when Merlin was wounded. Scouts showed that Lothruin had no lord after it joined Tara. Coupled with the poor region stats, the most logical conclusion was that a revolt caused the region to spontaneously join Tara. Silnaria did not receive any notification of the revolt.

If either the fact of the revolt or the failure of Silnaria to receive notification of the revolt are bugs, I am presently unaware of that. Maybe one of the Devs can comment on whether this is working as designed.

[Anaris]

If either the fact of the revolt or the failure of Silnaria to receive notification of the revolt are bugs, I am presently unaware of that. Maybe one of the Devs can comment on whether this is working as designed.

No, from what I've heard here, I don't think a bug is involved in this in any way.

[Eirikr]

No, from what I've heard here, I don't think a bug is involved in this in any way.

I think only takeovers and intentional swaps are reported continent-wide, right? Now that I really think about it, I can't remember seeing a report about a region turning rogue or switching realms 'involuntarily' outside of the realms that were involved.

[Dante Silverfire]

Based upon my misconception that Munro had in fact switched *both* regions to Tara, I drop any sort of case against him.

However, I do think that the Magistrates should judge upon what the result of a verdict would have been should both regions had been manually switched. This seems relevant to both this case and possibly the Terran case.

[Indirik]

If the case is dropped, then there should be no ruling at all. This board is not a place to discuss theoretical cases. If you want to do that, head over to the Q&A board.

[Dante Silverfire]

If the case is dropped, then there should be no ruling at all. This board is not a place to discuss theoretical cases. If you want to do that, head over to the Q&A board.

Very well. Close the thread then.