New Player Retention - how do we engage their interest?

[Tom]

Wouldn't it be easier to just show the % of realms involved in war?

Probably, but I couldn't come up with a quick one-line SQL statement to get those numbers.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Neutral doesn't necessarily mean friend Tom...

[Tom]

That's almost always going to be true.

[...]

So...yeah, no one's going to try to have more enemies than friends. That's just dumb. Thus, I'm not sure what point you were intending to make here.

You are missing the third option. If people had some friends, some enemies, and lots of neutrals, that would be cool.

But most realms have tons of friends, and almost no enemies. Basically, players have successfully rebuilt Europe in-game. Unfortunately, it's the European Union of the 21st century and not the feudal Europe of the dark ages.

[Tom]

Neutral doesn't necessarily mean friend Tom...

Which is exactly why I did not include it in the "peaceful" category, but kept it as a seperate state in the statistics.

[Anaris]

You are missing the third option. If people had some friends, some enemies, and lots of neutrals, that would be cool.

Ah, good point.

But most realms have tons of friends, and almost no enemies. Basically, players have successfully rebuilt Europe in-game. Unfortunately, it's the European Union of the 21st century and not the feudal Europe of the dark ages.

Unfortunately, the players are 21st century, not dark age.

The only way you're going to end up with people not trying to get large chunks of the continent on their side is if, as with the scrapped Treaty System, it costs them something to maintain an alliance.

[trying]

Well I think the graphs clearly show that we ought to sink Atamara.
I don't blame Beluaterra for being so peaceful since many of the regions are still recovering.

[Stabbity]

That's almost always going to be true.

The only realms that have more enemies than friends are a) gigantic behemoths that can take on most of the continent by themselves and win (which, I would say, is an undesirable type of realm to have around, from a game-fun perspective), and b) realms that are likely to be dead soon.

So...yeah, no one's going to try to have more enemies than friends. That's just dumb. Thus, I'm not sure what point you were intending to make here.

or c) Asylon. :p

[Buffalkill]

Atamara has 14 realams, of which 7 are currently at war with at least one other realm and the remaining 7 are not currently at war.

[Geronus]

You are missing the third option. If people had some friends, some enemies, and lots of neutrals, that would be cool.

But most realms have tons of friends, and almost no enemies. Basically, players have successfully rebuilt Europe in-game. Unfortunately, it's the European Union of the 21st century and not the feudal Europe of the dark ages.

What do you expect? Humans are social creatures, naturally inclined to work together. Plus, and this is a huge issue, wars in Battlemaster tend to have devastating consequences for the losing side; this strongly discourages realms from taking risks on a war where victory isn't a sure thing, with all of the negative consequences this implies - less competitive wars, and less war over all.

Think about it, when the consequences of war were comparatively limited (because armies were smaller and could not be kept in the field for long without significant economic consequences), European nations fought each other all the time. When the consequences of war eventually became devastating thanks to technological advancement, you got the European Union.

[Vita`]

Interestingly, Tom and Geronus, the last post in the Fortifications/Sieges thread in the Background forums talks about exactly this.

[Zakilevo]

Interestingly, Tom and Geronus, the last post in the Fortifications/Sieges thread in the Background forums talks about exactly this.

Indeed. I think BM lacks what it takes to force us 21st century players to think like those who lived in the dark ages. BM doesn't have as many fortifications as Europe did back in the era as well. On top of that siege battles in BM are rather short. No time for relief forces to break the siege or economic damage to take a toll on both the besieger and the besieged.

[Geronus]

Indeed. I think BM lacks what it takes to force us 21st century players to think like those who lived in the dark ages. BM doesn't have as many fortifications as Europe did back in the era as well. On top of that siege battles in BM are rather short. No time for relief forces to break the siege or economic damage to take a toll on both the besieger and the besieged.

Part of it is that the game design encourages players to behave in certain ways. I'd say modern culture has somewhat less to do with the issue of not enough wars than do simple game mechanics. The mechanics make it so that wars can be devastating, and so they usually are unless the winning side chooses to exercise restraint, an option with few incentives.

[Blue Star]

I was not around for long before the war islands were closed, so the status quo seems relatively normal to me in terms of the number of wars going on. Was it really much more intense before?

No from what I remember before the war islands disappeared sunk or uhh [insert]. It was just more activity going around more people conversed in realms and well regions were still building the culture some of them still have today, Ibaldesh "White City", Sirion "elves", etc. You could say pre-war island [insert] it was a more creative atmosphere and well a different crowd, though many still lurk.

Dukes would converse more and such with lords knights so forth. Realms were tight knit, but the difference is they spoke and knew other nobles around the contient they were in, not just their realm mates. War islands didn't destroy that, spying did. That's why realms have so many message groups.

Back on topic, it's a new crowd that's for sure. The best way to approach this is to offer advice leave them a message make sure they get assigned to a army and within that army have the army converse.

Bm's competing with graphics/animations, it a tough battle.

[Jaden]

Was spying really that bad, I know off a few situations in Atamara, though never thought that it decreased the number of messages in realm. Is that maybe why some people prefer Dwilight? People can be more open about discussions there with a lower chance of spys?

[Anaris]

No from what I remember before the war islands disappeared sunk or uhh [insert]. It was just more activity going around more people conversed in realms and well regions were still building the culture some of them still have today, Ibaldesh "White City", Sirion "elves", etc. You could say pre-war island [insert] it was a more creative atmosphere and well a different crowd, though many still lurk.

Dukes would converse more and such with lords knights so forth. Realms were tight knit, but the difference is they spoke and knew other nobles around the contient they were in, not just their realm mates. War islands didn't destroy that, spying did. That's why realms have so many message groups.

Honestly, I don't see that at all.

First of all, in my experience, there was just as much spying back in the day. If anything has ruined trust in the game, it's not spying, but rather paranoia about spying.

Second of all, I was here for ~4 years before the War Islands closed, with characters on both SWI and SEI, and I don't recall seeing any significant change in the way people acted or culture was developed when they were closed.

Over time, however, the older realms—particularly on Atamara and the EC—started to lose some of the habits that were part of their culture in the early years. I don't think this means that they lost their culture, per se. Some of them, I think, suffered from having longtime players who used to develop the culture lose interest and either leave the game, or just become inactive Dukes holding onto power for its own sake. Others, however, just lost the players who used to develop culture, and had new players develop a different one.

I've definitely seen Sirionites describe themselves as Elves, and Ibladesh called the White City, and all sorts of other little cultural tidbits, in the years since the War Islands closed. I think you may be seeing the past through rose-coloured glasses, Blue Star.