Author Topic: Atamara Update?  (Read 55077 times)

Stabbity

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Re: Atamara Update?
« Reply #75: January 14, 2014, 06:08:40 AM »
Oh boy.

Well, we will see if this was the final mistake of Darka :)

But you are right on that, CE is very clever with its politics and with tricks like this it is forcing people to join on its side. Rielston were promised to have BoM, Lyoness were promised to have Massilion?

-Jaune

CE didn't bring us onto their side. You pushed us there.
Life is a dance, it is only fitting that death sing the tune.

jaune

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Re: Atamara Update?
« Reply #76: January 14, 2014, 07:59:57 AM »
Eh, when you said that you will take their side unless i accept treaty which gives them advantage, and refuse to negotiate unless we leave your lands and let CE enter to it? Ignoring my comments on the treaty?

You chose your side when you gave advantage to our enemy. I cant have neighbour who i cant trust, who doesnt care about the wellfare of Darka.

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Eirikr

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Re: Atamara Update?
« Reply #77: January 14, 2014, 08:35:01 AM »
I think we've rotated on the circular logic long enough. It's clear either the two sides of this can't agree (on facts, for the record) or don't understand... or just don't want to.

At the end of the day, all that really matters is that Darka declared war. That, in itself, assured that we would join the Caglian Empire. You could have stalled, you could have tried talking to someone other than the Queen (especially if it wasn't working), you could have done any number of things... but you didn't. Some may have (and did, at first) objected to fighting Darka... as soon as you declared war, you made that decision for us.

As for the trust bit, who snuck into an allied realm and turned his troops to murderous? And yes, if you ask one person for permission and they don't respond or share that information, it's still sneaking. May as well call a bank after it closes and say "But I asked if anyone was in!" when they arrest you in the vault.

jaune

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Re: Atamara Update?
« Reply #78: January 14, 2014, 09:22:07 AM »
Eh, thats how things had been during whole existence of Lyoness. We had informed ruler that we are coming. We had always the region we are(if enemy around) to move away, and if militia or inactive or what ever reason there was Lyoness troops, we have wiped them out with murderous settings to being able to fight with CE.

Time frame just dont allow long chit chat, cause CE was already on your border, we had to move in to stop them before they get in our lands.

I was told that CE had permission to march on your lands, and we are not. If i had ordered my army out from your lands, CE would have been able to loot the crap out from us. And while i tried to keep up negotiations, i was told no negotiating as long as our troops are on Lyoness lands, and your Queen lowered relations. It was clear to me, that you had chosen CE at this point and Lyoness must be burnt for the sake of Darka.
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Stabbity

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Re: Atamara Update?
« Reply #79: January 14, 2014, 12:19:01 PM »
No one ever said "Accept the Treaty or we'll join CE."

Joining CE's side was only mentioned after you ordered your troops to murderous and attacked ours. We asked you to leave our lands, stating that fighting battles on our lands was unacceptable. That is not unreasonable.
Life is a dance, it is only fitting that death sing the tune.

jaune

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Re: Atamara Update?
« Reply #80: January 14, 2014, 01:42:30 PM »
Yes it is unreasonable(for Darka) when you also told me that CE had permission to use your lands and we are not. And this wont be discussed until we are out of your lands. It was too much asked from Darka.

Lyoness is there only because of good will of Darka & CE... and because Lyoness were neutral to both sides. When it stopped to be neutral, its existense to us is a threat which need to be removed one way or another.

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Sonya

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Re: Atamara Update
« Reply #81: January 14, 2014, 02:33:59 PM »
CE wants to gain allies?

How is that?

Last time is checked CE is allied with 8 of 12 Realms in Atamara. Or do you think that those colonies created on Eston's soil was for free?

KK was a fool if he thought that would never happens, i bet my money hands down for  that to happen, and i won!



Peace!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 02:35:30 PM by Sonya »

jaune

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Re: Atamara Update
« Reply #82: January 14, 2014, 02:39:27 PM »


KK was a fool if he thought that would never happens, i bet my money hands down for  that to happen, and i won!



Peace!
Yes, several people said "Destroy/Conquer Eston remainings!" when they surrendered... but i felt pity to them. Again, i should have listen my advisors... thats why they are there, and believe me i have heard some "I told ya!" sayings lately :D
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Eirikr

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Re: Atamara Update?
« Reply #83: January 14, 2014, 03:09:05 PM »
I was told that CE had permission to march on your lands, and we are not.

As I've said what seems like 20 times now: You would have been given permission and CE been told to wait if you had informed me. That was outlined in the treaty... which, even if you didn't sign, should have been a major hint that letting Ravendon know would have been the correct move. CE contacted myself and, not knowing Darka was already in our lands, I gave them permission.

You even said you got no response from Queen Raziella... so how would that ever equate to permission? I'm really don't understand why that is so hard to grasp.

Plus, as you just said, it apparently wasn't the first time you came and just slaughtered a friendly realm's militia... When the CE pointed this out the first time, I gave Darka a pass on it because I thought it was an accident or caused by a larger fight. Doesn't sound so friendly now.

I will admit to not giving you an option while still in our lands. Why should I? You had no right being there to my character's knowledge. It was extremely short sighted of Darka to take "not while you're still in our lands" and change it to "ever".

jaune

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Re: Atamara Update?
« Reply #84: January 14, 2014, 04:40:17 PM »
We did not had ANY problems with similar incidents before. We had gone with murderous settings ALWAYS when there was Lyoness/Rielston/Eston militia/troops which didnt respond our requests to leave.

And like said, Lyoness had already taken side when they proposed treaty which would give advantage to the enemy. Everytime i tried to discuss about this treaty, i was replied with silent, or "You really need sign this!".

It was Lyoness decision to become NOT neutral on this war. And it was Darkan decision to act for it. I did try to talk with it, but Queen didnt reply much, but that silly Himoura and Lord of Melias sent threats.

Like you said, you had given permission to CE march on their lands, but denied it from us. That is how it was told to me... and Lyoness kept repeating how fair their treaty was.

In my opinion, we both had good reason to act like we did. You wanted us out from your lands, and we wanted to fight CE on your lands like we had done few years already. You valued your indepense over the relations with Darka. Now we will see how this end... The Winner will write the history :)
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Indirik

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Re: Atamara Update?
« Reply #85: January 14, 2014, 06:00:39 PM »
This is a perfect example of how a situation involving multiple intelligent, rational, people can result in a situation falling apart and leading to war. Everyone thinks that what they are doing is the right thing to do, and makes perfect sense. The final outcome is one that no one really wanted. Everyone thinks that everyone else wanted it to go there, and that they deliberately manipulated the situation to make it happen.
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Stabbity

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Re: Atamara Update?
« Reply #86: January 14, 2014, 10:26:38 PM »
We did not had ANY problems with similar incidents before. We had gone with murderous settings ALWAYS when there was Lyoness/Rielston/Eston militia/troops which didnt respond our requests to leave.

And like said, Lyoness had already taken side when they proposed treaty which would give advantage to the enemy. Everytime i tried to discuss about this treaty, i was replied with silent, or "You really need sign this!".

It was Lyoness decision to become NOT neutral on this war. And it was Darkan decision to act for it. I did try to talk with it, but Queen didnt reply much, but that silly Himoura and Lord of Melias sent threats.

Like you said, you had given permission to CE march on their lands, but denied it from us. That is how it was told to me... and Lyoness kept repeating how fair their treaty was.

In my opinion, we both had good reason to act like we did. You wanted us out from your lands, and we wanted to fight CE on your lands like we had done few years already. You valued your indepense over the relations with Darka. Now we will see how this end... The Winner will write the history :)

You want to talk about threats?

"Revoke CE's passage rights or we destroy Hawthorne."

That is a threat.

"Your passage rights are revoked until further notice, seeing as you've just set to murderous and attacked a bunch of our men while at peace for no reason."

Is a reasonable response, and yes we're aware that you've come through our lands murdering everything in sight. This is why the whole treaty was created in the first place. It was not meant to be all nice and fuzzy for everyone, and the consequences of ignoring it should have been obvious. If you recall, I threatened KK once, and that was after Darka instantly declared war after we lowered relation to neutral in response to you attacking our troops in cold blood, and that was to merely repay Darka in spades for whatever damage they did.

Of course, its obvious why Darka has no more friends on Atamara, they blatantly ignore the basest forms of diplomacy, and pursue an active campaign of murder and disregard for anyone not bending over backwards for them. CE is allied with almost everyone?  I wonder why that is? Oh, I'll explain it: they respect other realms, engage in pleasantries, and are generally much nicer to work with than Darka, because if you pursue something they don't necessarily agree with, their response isn't "switch to murderous and burn everything we can touch"
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Penchant

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Re: Atamara Update?
« Reply #87: January 14, 2014, 11:24:32 PM »
We did not had ANY problems with similar incidents before. We had gone with murderous settings ALWAYS when there was Lyoness/Rielston/Eston militia/troops which didnt respond our requests to leave.

And like said, Lyoness had already taken side when they proposed treaty which would give advantage to the enemy. Everytime i tried to discuss about this treaty, i was replied with silent, or "You really need sign this!".

It was Lyoness decision to become NOT neutral on this war. And it was Darkan decision to act for it. I did try to talk with it, but Queen didnt reply much, but that silly Himoura and Lord of Melias sent threats.

Like you said, you had given permission to CE march on their lands, but denied it from us. That is how it was told to me... and Lyoness kept repeating how fair their treaty was.

In my opinion, we both had good reason to act like we did. You wanted us out from your lands, and we wanted to fight CE on your lands like we had done few years already. You valued your indepense over the relations with Darka. Now we will see how this end... The Winner will write the history :)
How do you see attacking a realm's troops in their realm because they didn't follow your orders as acceptable diplomacy?

"You [Lyonesse] value your independence more than you value Darka so we have to attack you" is fair relations?

I thought Darka didn't like CE because CE is/was a bully?
“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
― G.K. Chesterton

Eirikr

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Re: Atamara Update?
« Reply #88: January 15, 2014, 12:43:38 AM »
"You [Lyonesse] value your independence more than you value Darka so we have to attack you" is fair relations?

Using Penchant's quote because I'm too lazy to format things myself...

Shouldn't every realm value its own independence more than it values another realm? Maybe I'm crazy here and people really do want to be subjugated by other realms?

Blue Star

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Re: Atamara Update?
« Reply #89: January 15, 2014, 05:15:58 AM »
CE...Where the cookies are more delcious
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