Farronite-Aslyon Merger

[Feylonis]

From the messages that I've received, Khari changed allegiances because there weren't enough nobles in FR to maximize lordships in the rurals, while Asylon had plenty. Whether o not that can be taken as evidence for a strategic merger, I'll leave for you all to decide.

[Penchant]

From the messages that I've received, Khari changed allegiances because there weren't enough nobles in FR to maximize lordships in the rurals, while Asylon had plenty. Whether o not that can be taken as evidence for a strategic merger, I'll leave for you all to decide.

Unless the player of Khari confirms it, the letters are needed IMO for that info to be used.

[Stabbity]

I will cite the example of Solaria again because the situation with the Ducny of Sun Hall joining Luria Nova is IDENTICAL. That was ruled legal. Its a power play, not a realm merger. You're allowed to do dastardly things, which this was. This is not two sovereign entities becoming one. This is a    Duchess making a power play. There is already a set precedent. Go read the Solaria/LN realm merger case.

[Penchant]

I will cite the example of Solaria again because the situation with the Ducny of Sun Hall joining Luria Nova is IDENTICAL. That was ruled legal. Its a power play, not a realm merger. You're allowed to do dastardly things, which this was. This is not two sovereign entities becoming one. This is a    Duchess making a power play. There is already a set precedent. Go read the Solaria/LN realm merger case.

Can you give me a link? I am not being lazy, I genuinely can't find, albeit I might be able to when I am not so tired.

[Stabbity]

Can you give me a link? I am not being lazy, I genuinely can't find, albeit I might be able to when I am not so tired.

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3396.0.html

This case is identical the switching of allegiance of the Duchy of Sun Hall which was the prelude, and is discussed in this point. A duchy containing all but two regions (a stronghold and a mountain) changed allegiance to Luria Nova from Solaria. Nothing was found wrong with this, which is damned near identical to what just happened. The only reason a case was opened is because a bug was in place that allowed the final duchy of Solaria to change allegiance, which was declared a realm merger. My point is, if Sunhall leaving Solaria wasn't a realm merger, then the recent FR duchy leaving FR for Asylon isn't one either.

[Indirik]

What exactly prevented this in the old system?

In the old system, duchies were tied to cities. It was impossible to have a duchy without a city. (I'm considering strongholds as cities for this purpose.) If your realm had one city, you had one duchy. Since the last city can't swap allegiance, it was impossible for the duke of a one city/duchy realm to switch allegiance. You had to have at least two before you could pull something like this.

[Indirik]

http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,3396.0.html

Nothing was found wrong with this, which is damned near identical to what just happened.

You are incorrect. That case only deals with the second transfer that actually was the last two regions of the realm, and not the initial transfer. The verdict of that case also clearly states:

The Magistrates decline to rule on the question of realm mergers generally and the secession of capital duchies at this time...

That case explicitly did not rule on the realm merger aspect, and gives only a "guilty of bug exploitation" verdict.

[Vita`]

Asylon is not a one city realm...

Oops. My quote should've said FR not Asylon.

[Indirik]

FWIW - The following message was sent IG to the SA "all members" channel about this:

Out-of-Character from Khari Kye   (1 day, 20 hours ago)
Message sent to everyone in "Sanguis Astroism" (124 recipients)
Well apparently people think Im cheating or some such, which is absurd.

FR has had two duchies for over half a year real time. Something like 3 rulers ago when I was its Governor General. I guess I have to explain every little thing we do to appease the masses. I created the second duchy so someone else could potentially be duke of Golden Farrow and ruler, ideally Gustav before he quit but it never happened. Since then yes FR had a treaty with Astrum, so what. Treaties are broken all the time in this game.

FR has dropped dramatically in its player count and was becoming near silent. I had been in talks with both Asylon and Phantaria about moving my duchy to either realm. I exercised my right as a Duchess and basically have ended the Farronite republic but only after consulting over half of its players. the other half possibly may have know something was in the works but im not sure.

All of this was done in game. So yes I gave the realm it its greatest ally. Big deal.

Frankly im kind of irked right now.
Jeff Walker

[Geronus]

I will cite the example of Solaria again because the situation with the Ducny of Sun Hall joining Luria Nova is IDENTICAL. That was ruled legal. Its a power play, not a realm merger. You're allowed to do dastardly things, which this was. This is not two sovereign entities becoming one. This is a    Duchess making a power play. There is already a set precedent. Go read the Solaria/LN realm merger case.

Not the same. There was no power struggle that caused this if the OOC message that Indirik posted here is an accurate summation of events.

Question - who is/was the ruler of FR? Was it Khari?

[Vita`]

Widden Fraoch (still is). Khari was royal duchess.

[Indirik]

Some recent rulership changes in FR. There could very well have been others in-between. Family history records on this kind of stuff are a bit spotty...

2013-08-21      Khari      Stepped down from rulership.
2013-09-06      Hireshmont II      Elected as Ruler of Farronite Republic
2013-12-06      Widden      Elected as Ruler of Farronite Republic

[cenrae]

Arya was ruler for a week after Khari.

I was also a bit reactive in my ooc post. If there are questions for me feel free to ask.

[Stabbity]

You are incorrect. That case only deals with the second transfer that actually was the last two regions of the realm, and not the initial transfer. The verdict of that case also clearly states:That case explicitly did not rule on the realm merger aspect, and gives only a "guilty of bug exploitation" verdict.

Stop. Read. I am not referring to the Duchy of the Courts of Stone which was a bug exploit. I.specifically said the first Duchy to leave Solaria which was Sun Hall, and if you bothered to read the thread, Sun Hall was decidely not a realm merger. Sun Hall joining Luria Nova is IDENTICAL in scope to Mech and Farrow.

Throw this case out. Its clearly not a realm merger. FR still exists, so what realms merged?

[Dishman]

Is three people and a city enough to consider Farronite a realm? Perhaps they will get a few immigrants, but without a few rurals for scouts and food then I'm not sure it will last.

When it does begin to waver, I wonder how long until they abandon ship and let it go rogue, letting it go to Asylon. I think it is a rather appropriate way for it to end up, but wouldn't it amount to the same thing as merging all at once?