Unique items - Add/subtract from skills

[Jens Namtrah]

Also it is hard to just stay as infiltrator as well due to honour and prestige loss. Eventually your honour and prestige fall too low for you to even stay as a noble. You become an outlaw and if you get caught you are out.

It would be nice to have something to replace honour and prestige for infiltrator.

You just have to fight some more battles. Or not get caught so much 

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

The devs are always interested in making things fun.

I have several ideas, both general and specific, for improving infiltrators. I just can't do everything at once.

What, specifically, about infiltrators is unfun to you right now?

Took me some time but better late than ever.

Right now infiltrators are a high risk low reward class. I'll try to make some points so that you can reply to each one if you want.

1)The H/P requirements are kinda high. I know that they are so high because infils tend to lose a lot of H/P but lowering them a bit (or making them obsolete for old players like it was discussed in another thread) wouldn't really hurt.

2)It takes a lot of time to train to be at least mediocre. Sitting in an Academy for around 3 to 4 irl months doing nothing but train sword fighting and infiltration is not the definition of fun. And let's be honest. Noone is able to train by using infil actions in his realm. If someone tries to train by doing low risk actions outside of his realm he would most probably get banned, then stay in the realm again, train harder, emigrate to avoid the ban, come back again etc. Something should be done to fix this. Maybe add some really low risk actions like "Steal gold from random peasants, assassinate a gang leader" etc.

3)The removal of invisibility at certain skill. I wasn't playing the game when that was a thing  but I thing it hurt the infiltration business a lot. It's not like someone can go to another realm, stab someone and then RP his way out of the situation. Noone would buy that. If infils could be invisible again it could create some really interesting situations between realms etc.

4)This problem might have been fixed now but back then each time I ended up in a Testing Island something seemed to be broken. Either when I tried to stab someone and the game did nothing and had to try again and again and only working if I failed the attempt and got caught. The other was the escape option which seemed to have the same problem as the assassination option.

5)For this I am not sure but I heard that it changed sometime when I still had my char. The chance of success when in a region with a lot of CS. It seemed to have been really low regardless of the skill you had in infiltration.

That's mostly it for now. If I remember something else I will make sure to add it.

[Indirik]

3)The removal of invisibility at certain skill. I wasn't playing the game when that was a thing  but I thing it hurt the infiltration business a lot. It's not like someone can go to another realm, stab someone and then RP his way out of the situation. Noone would buy that. If infils could be invisible again it could create some really interesting situations between realms etc.

So... wait until there are more foreigners there.

Or wait until your target is the foreigner.

Or until there are people from several different realms there.

Or until a well-known infiltrator is also in the region.

If you set yourself up as the only logical culprit, then you deserve to be the only one everyone suspects.

[De-Legro]

So... wait until there are more foreigners there.

Or wait until your target is the foreigner.

Or until there are people from several different realms there.

Or until a well-known infiltrator is also in the region.

If you set yourself up as the only logical culprit, then you deserve to be the only one everyone suspects.

This, I had a infil character go unnoticed for more then a year by being very selective of my targets and my risks. Invisibility was always more useful for actually getting to your target region unnoticed then for plausible deniability at any rate.

[Eldargard]

I always assumed that due to the plausible dependability thing an infiltrator only lost H/P when they where caught doing something shady. Was my assumption wrong? If so, why would infiltrators lose H/P for actions no one knows where theirs?

[Indirik]

You are correct. You only lose honor and prestige when you are identified as the culprit, whether or not you are captured.

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

So... wait until there are more foreigners there.

Or wait until your target is the foreigner.

Or until there are people from several different realms there.

Or until a well-known infiltrator is also in the region.

If you set yourself up as the only logical culprit, then you deserve to be the only one everyone suspects.

And then get randomly caught because there are many CS in the region or someone decided to do police work. What you say doesn't really work in reality.

[Indirik]

Thats the same way it was when there were invisible ninjas, too. They still got caught by random patrols and police work, too.

And don't you get warnings when people have been doing police work?

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

Thats the same way it was when there were invisible ninjas, too. They still got caught by random patrols and police work, too.

And don't you get warnings when people have been doing police work?

The difference is you wouldn't have to wait for your scenario back then. And no you don't get a report.

[De-Legro]

And then get randomly caught because there are many CS in the region or someone decided to do police work. What you say doesn't really work in reality.

So why are you attempting something in a region that has more CS then your skill can comfortably deal with?

Thats the same way it was when there were invisible ninjas, too. They still got caught by random patrols and police work, too.

And don't you get warnings when people have been doing police work?

I thought you used to, in the text when selecting the action you want to perform. Not sure if it was their for every infil option but I certainly recall that some of them used to warn you about elevated threat levels due to police work.

[skiarxon@gmail.com]

So why are you attempting something in a region that has more CS then your skill can comfortably deal with?

I never said that. My skill was always around 80% and higher. Getting caught by someone with a unit of 500CS should not happen.

[De-Legro]

I never said that. My skill was always around 80% and higher. Getting caught by someone with a unit of 500CS should not happen.

Rubbish. In the end you are one man. The chance might be slim but I see no reason it should be negated entirely.

[De-Legro]

Took me some time but better late than ever.

Right now infiltrators are a high risk low reward class. I'll try to make some points so that you can reply to each one if you want.

1)The H/P requirements are kinda high. I know that they are so high because infils tend to lose a lot of H/P but lowering them a bit (or making them obsolete for old players like it was discussed in another thread) wouldn't really hurt.

2)It takes a lot of time to train to be at least mediocre. Sitting in an Academy for around 3 to 4 irl months doing nothing but train sword fighting and infiltration is not the definition of fun. And let's be honest. Noone is able to train by using infil actions in his realm. If someone tries to train by doing low risk actions outside of his realm he would most probably get banned, then stay in the realm again, train harder, emigrate to avoid the ban, come back again etc. Something should be done to fix this. Maybe add some really low risk actions like "Steal gold from random peasants, assassinate a gang leader" etc.

3)The removal of invisibility at certain skill. I wasn't playing the game when that was a thing  but I thing it hurt the infiltration business a lot. It's not like someone can go to another realm, stab someone and then RP his way out of the situation. Noone would buy that. If infils could be invisible again it could create some really interesting situations between realms etc.

4)This problem might have been fixed now but back then each time I ended up in a Testing Island something seemed to be broken. Either when I tried to stab someone and the game did nothing and had to try again and again and only working if I failed the attempt and got caught. The other was the escape option which seemed to have the same problem as the assassination option.

5)For this I am not sure but I heard that it changed sometime when I still had my char. The chance of success when in a region with a lot of CS. It seemed to have been really low regardless of the skill you had in infiltration.

That's mostly it for now. If I remember something else I will make sure to add it.

1) I'm ambivalent about this. Infil is an advanced class, I see no reason to protect the player from themselves by having H/P requirements to counter the "loss" of such, that is something people should be able to manage. Guess you just need a way to ensure that people understand this so you don't get back feedback from first time infils

2) I've trained two infils without using academies. The first was a cheat, since it was an old advy and as such had decent sword fighting. The second was 100% trained from actions. I doubt he had the sword fighting for much stabbing, wasn't really concentrating on that but he was at 75% ish for infil from doing all those little infil actions people seem to ignore.

3) As I've said before, my understanding about the removal of invisibility was to stop infils from being able to scout with little risk, and to stop them magically popping up in the rear regions of a enemy with little chance of any sort of warning.

4) Sounds like a bug, was it reported?

5) Yes if there is a lot of CS the chance is low. To many soldiers milling around increasing the chance of being spotted, and the chance that significant help is available if you are spotted. Is the problem you have that you believe it ramps up too quickly? I certainly see little problem with the idea that it is hard/near impossible to stab someone in a camp of 20k CS for example.

[Chenier]

So... wait until there are more foreigners there.

Or wait until your target is the foreigner.

Or until there are people from several different realms there.

Or until a well-known infiltrator is also in the region.

If you set yourself up as the only logical culprit, then you deserve to be the only one everyone suspects.

My biggest issue with this argument is that the higher the "plausible deniability", the higher the risks, because these extra nobles usually have troops that will interfere with your activities.

Secondly, that plausible deniability is not important. The invisible status wasn't useful because it protected your identity, it was useful because it covered your tracks. You couldn't be actively hunted down and followed. In most cases, you are acting against enemies. If you are, who cares if you are identified? You are already an enemy to them. The main cases where you would care not to be identified are against targets that the game does not reward attacking: friends.

[Indirik]

The difference is you wouldn't have to wait for your scenario back then.

So you're upset that you have to plan, instead of knifing random people on a whim?

I don't mind requiring people plan their activities and wait for opportune moments to strike.