Anyone denying that cliques dont exist in BM
In each realm, there is definitely a group that is in power. If you walk in and buck that group, you *will* be met with resistance. It doesn't matter what realm you go to, or what your family name is. If 10 days after you join you start talking about replacing the government and fomenting rebellion, you *will* be tossed out on your ear, no matter what realm you're in, or who you are.
If, on the other hand, you walk in and want to cooperate, work within the system, and actually help, you will be met with welcome, and can quickly work your way up. At least in the vast majority of realms that I have heard of. There are still a couple that are very difficult to move in. The few that I have heard of are Talerium (which I've heard is the absolute most difficult), CE, Tara, and Sirion. I don't have any personal experience with these, this is second-hand knowledge. With the recent regime change in Tara, things may start to change there.
or the minimum time in realm rules dont exist anymore... yeah nah.
Name names.
Point me to a wiki page laying it out.
Copy/paste a IG bulletin with the specific details.
Copy me an IG message where someone explicitly states it.
Give me something concrete that points out to a certain group of players telling someone that they can't be a leader because they haven't spent XXX days in the realm. (Something current, and not just "you can't be in the council until you've been in the realm for 30 days".)
In fact, if you have something like that, go ahead and file a Titans report about it, and get some official ruling.
Well. When a 10 day old character tries these things he is told to simmer down or labelled a trouble maker. When INSERT WELL KNOWN PLAYER HERE tries it they are a master schemer and a great creator of fun in the game.
There are very, very few players who can accomplish anything even remotely resembling what you're describing. And the ones that can do that, and only on very rare occasions, specialize in tearing things down, not building them up. Tearing down is *much* easier.
Massive change takes massive effort, and massive time. Enoch didn't destroy SA in 10 days. It took years of effort by several players to put the right people in the right places.
In any case, 10 day old characters (by which I'm going to assume you mean a brand new account) are often very clumsy in the way they do things. They walk in and declare themselves the one that will shake things up. They issue direct challenges to the people with power. They get in your face and shove. That's not how you accomplish change. that's how you get ostracized.
This is the widespread intercontinental BM clique. All of you who say you have never seen a realm where the old guard could not be changed or penetrated are probably in it.
No, no, no ... no one is saying that power groups in realms don't exist.
People trust your characters based on you as a player. You can rally great power, because other people have played with you so often. The less active players latch on, this is the same player of the queen on a different continent, surely this will be fun.
Well of course they do. This makes both IC and OOC sense. Your family gains a reputation. You as a player gain a reputation. Want to destroy something? Have Stabbity bring in a Himoura. Want to build up a realm with a great military tradition? Call out Lapallanch. Want a great republican realm with elaborate laws, traditions, and rules? Have Anaris come on over. Want to go along for the ride in a realm with that kind of flavor? Then find a real with one of those guys in power, and enjoy the ride.
Smaller in realm cliques spring to mind. Atamara is rife with that mentality. It is readily apparent on SI as well.
I'm not seeing it in Sandalak on SI. We've been appointing damn near everyone who asks for a position or group membership. Other SI realms, I dunno.
Denying a problem exists is not the answer, analyze the extent. If one person quits because he feels excluded or unvalued is too many. And I know, Ive come close many times.
People in this thread *have* been acknowledging that realms need to open up. We *know* that some realms are controlled by close-knit groups. But ...
There is also no doubt that a significant portion of these claims of exclusive cliques/clans are way overblown. Someone who comes into a realm as a new player or character and very quickly directly challenges authority *will* find themselves stomped on. What do you expect, that they be instantly handed the reigns?
They dont have a strong family name to say, oh yes, theyre trustworthy let me go along with their scheme.
As I said above, players/families *do* gain a reputation. There is nothing wrong with this. It's part of the nature of the game. Also, you cannot get away from this. Players will learn what other players they like to play with, or who generate a play style they like. They will gravitate toward these players. I don't see how you can expect it to be any other way.
The same thing happens in a negative way, as well. There are families who's characters are almost never trusted. They've gained reputations for being self-serving, traitorous, or interested only in amassing personal power. There are families who you can count on to swap the allegiance of their regions as soon as it becomes apparent that the enemy will begin a takeover, profess their undying loyalty to the new regime, then swap back as soon as the wind changes. Some people that, if there is a rebellion brewing, they will be part of it. These people often find themselves on the outside based solely on the reputation they have amassed over the years. Do they do that because of the way they have been treated, or are they treated that way because of what they've done?
Except when the main clique of movers and shakers does something theyre being dynamic, not being trouble makers. Thats the current paradigm. This isnt about causing trouble, this is about not being able to enact change.
The way you do things matters.
Talerium. Talerium is huge with old guard culture;
Talerium is one of those realms that simply doesn't change. They have remained constant and static forever. They are in the unfortunate spot of being caught between two hostile giants for *years*.
my character has been there 3000+ days and Im not considered old guard,
This is the perfect example for the fact that time in realm doesn't matter. If it did, then you'd be *leading* the "old guard". You're not part of it because they don't trust you, not because you haven't been in the realm for long enough.
he became general because we had 18 nobles and Im the only one who said yes.
Kinda sounds like the way I've ended up being general of a couple realms.
I was part of the Astrumese ruling clique until I threw it away.
The Astrum ruling clique... wasn't really a ruling clique. It was that way mostly because the realm, for a long time, had NOTHING happening. Power wasn't being held to a closed group, there was simply no turnover because nothing was happening. I tried opening things up from time to time while ruler, going so far as to remove all but one message group. But there was still nothing being discussed, because NOTHING was happening.
What's kind of funny is that on SI, Kurlock proposed just not using message groups, and doing everything with everyone in the whole realm. Then all the complaints started rolling in about how people didn't want to have to deal with all the messages, and just wanted the leaders to shut up and give them the orders. You just can't win...
