The War.

[Chenier]

Not all reasons are as good as others. It's happened a few times that realms went to war just for the sake of going to war, with no regards for anything else.

[Stabbity]

Of course they do. Everyone does. The thing i would like to point out was that the Thals didn't complained about it. That was it.

I know they didn't. They were quite pleased.

[Lorgan]

A few things:

1.
a) We're not gangbanging. We're winning, it's not the same.
b) If we wanted to go about gangbanging realms, we could've found another way to do it without pissing off 2/3 of our allies into attacking us.
c) Obviously it is fun to win, but the whole point of this war was to not be certain about victory. And we weren't for a long time. We've been obviously winning for maybe a month or two? Ever since we sacked Fronepu, saved Vozzessdor from being taken by Fronen and took Xerus all in the same campaign. And even then, nothing is certain. Spearhold joined against us again and Caelum is a new factor which at the moment is attacking our enemy but who knows what their long term plan is? Certainly looks ambitious.
d) And another point for good measure: It was NEVER the idea to go around gangbanging, the purpose of this whole thing was exactly the opposite and NO ONE has been gangbanged in this war.

2. Spearhold bought into our argument that Melhed deserved to be destroyed for breaking the treaty that had only been in effect for a few weeks.

3. Riombara was always expected to join against us, even though we were long standing friends and allies... It was kind of the point. Had we stayed allies, no fair war would've been possible. Doesn't mean we should IC applaud their actions.

4. I don't think anyone has an issue with how you played Pavel. Play your characters as you wish, just know that there are consequences to everything you do.

I guess that's it. I'm sorry that you quit because I did enjoy the pickle you got us in (and then out again quickly by sneak-attacking OG) but you're right, the game isn't about winning or losing. That I'm winning and enjoy it doesn't mean I wouldn't enjoy losing. We play on BT after all, where you (used to) get the crap beaten out of you periodically.
And I do hope people outside Thalmarkin are having fun with this war, I've at least not seen any complaints from those who are still playing. Meanwhile, we've done our best to even out the odds as much as possible.

[jaune]

I dont know where that gangbang thing popped up? Nothoi indeed is in deep poop, but its not that we suddenly started gangbang them, they are simply losing and have lost 2 of their allies during this war.

-Jaune

[Naidraug]

I think, at least for me, the GB idea started when more realms joined the fight for pure greed.

In one moment we get an offer for peace from OG and a few days latter the offer is denied.

Then Caellum joins against Nothoi.

It might be just me, but lately BM has entered this cycle, after a long time of peace, there will be a time when 4 realms will be going against 1 or 2 (that can not help it each other much on the defensive front) until one is destroyed, then it goes all around again.

Peace time -> kill one -> peace -> kill another and so it goes...

[Disturbedyang]

Caelum joining against Nothoi if not gangbang then i don't know what is. Regardless, that's not the point. At one point, surely one side will appear to be 'gangbanging' the other. It is imo how the rulers create excuses to make it more balanced and fun for everyone. There are tons of instances when it happened, and it can still be 'balanced' in a way or ended quickly(without the losing side losing too much), if they try to.

The point i am trying to bring it is how people complained about Rio joining in the southern side with valid reasons but somehow turn a blind eye on Spearhold and now Caelum joining in albeit with valid reasons as well.

I can take any excuses or funny stories one create, hence how i played Pavel and readily actually accept that i put Melhed at risk for extinction. For one, i was hoping that someone will join in the fun and prevent that from happening, which is why i was very glad Fronen did instead of the dull BT we used to have.

Though i cannot accept how one being hypocrite in whining and criticize someone else way of playing but in return do the same thing themselves(or accept it when it favors them). Regardless, i am not in the game, so i do not know the full story, but that is how i see from some of the postings. I do not wish for anyone to quit - obviously, but perhaps hopefully change the mindset of how some approach the game.

[Lorgan]

I suppose you're right and Nothoi is being gangbanged right now as Caelum joined the game right after Nothoi lost two allies due to surrendering/defection. Caelum's rise to relevance couldn't very well have been predicted but their lands are poor so a land-grab makes sense for them. The other side of this war isn't one for conquest though, simply swallowing your pride ends the gangbang and turns the tables. Just sayin'...

As for your point, Disturbedyang, no one came on the forum complaining that Rio joined the war. Why should they do so about Caelum or Spearhold? Also, Melhed got it's many allies, it still lost. And I think they gave up only at the point that continuing the war wouldn't have been considered fun by them.

That said, there's sort of been this cycle in BM, yes. It irritates me that there can be no conceived end to a war other than total annihilation. It is much more fun to fight a war till one side gives in to reasonable demands and both seek other things to do. People now, on both sides, want all or nothing, which is just a very shortsighted way of playing.
I don't think this cycle applies here though, the diplomacy is complicated enough to allow for many possible outcomes. There are a lot of players in this war who can change the game. And I don't foresee a time of peace when the war is finally over either.

[jaune]

Melhed fumbled on the point when they said they wont rest until AA has been wiped off from map and declared Hatred. They didnt give much of chanche for talks, especially if we look back at history a bit... they were given chanche to live along with AA... but threw it away... too many times.

-Jaune

[Noldorin]

And i ESPECIALLY would like to believe that Noldorin wanted Melhed to survive because he sees conflict it can create, so conflict it did create. So to turn back and say Melhed shouldn't this and that is just plain absurd. And i don't actually see any problem with playing out such character.

Indeed many wanted Melhed to survive. That was the goal all the time, until we saw that Melhed would never accept peace with Thalmarkin (which was shown by your actions) and would continue war against AA until AA was killed. You didnt really leave us much choice.

And obviously there is no problem with playing Pavel as you did. It certainly gave alot of interesting stuff to do on the continent. But well, playing the game in that way leads to huge risks aswell (obviously), and those risks seems to have been accepted by both sides... and things came to what is now.

What makes the Thal so great about scheming to take over the continent and Melhed such a big fat liar for scheming to stop them? That is just you thinking that you are always right and not putting yourself on someone else's shoes. In fact, Melhed sort of tried to stop the Thals to gangbang one realm at a time, and tried to bring every single realm to join in the fun and was given the opportunity when Thalmarkin came up with that scheme.

Regardless, all games(note: not only battlemaster) are infested by such players that just wants to win. Understood, since who doesn't want to. But i have always make it a point to make a decision that keep most people enjoying it at the same time. Can you say the say, especially on the Thalmarkin side that it is fun for everyone around the continent, or only within thalmarkin itself only?

Im not sure but to me it seems you are mixing IG and ooc here. Thals were mighty angry at melhed IG and had every reason to be. Also (IG) Thalmarkin was so "great" about their scheming since it was done in a righteous way (according to us, again IG), while Melheds attemps to stop our scheme was made through lies and breaking of treaties (again, according to us IG).

Also for the gangbanging, Im not sure what this is in regards to either (unless you mean Caelum atm, who has their own reasons for war). Thalmarkin was going to attack all realms who opposed us (or so was the initial idea at least), as soon as we had some friends on our side. This would not be a gangbang at all, but rather a few realms trying to defeat many realms. As things turned out, we had even worse odds than this since Melhed changed side. Spearhold joined our side for reasons said earlier in this threat (and if i remember correctly, the only thing they ever did through the war was loot 1-2 of your regions and never engaged in any battles against the south?).

So, im not sure if we were suposed to complain about Spearhold "joining" us IG or ooc, but IG makes no sense at all and I dont think there was ooc complaints about Rio joining the south to begin with. The whole idea (ooc) was to fight Nothoi and Rio at the same time, but that doesnt mean im gonna accept their war declarations just like nothing happened IG.

[Constantine]

Caelum has few provinces most of which are poor and lots of money starved nobles.
Nothoi has as many nobles and twice as many provinces. It also has many enemies and is hence vulnerable.
I am not sure what OOC reasons are brought up here but there are plenty of IC ones.

At least Caelum also places itself in a vulnerable position by going to war, whence Riombara and IVF are not due to their sheer geography. Those must be the most boring realms in entire BM. I'd only join them if I was a gold farmer.

[Thehatter]

All hail the Caelum Empire!!!!!!!

Caelum's reason for the is because Nothoi was pissing in its cheerios.

[Stabbity]

Caelum's reason for the is because Nothoi wouldn't give up half its territory to Caelum.

Fixed that.

[Thehatter]

like i said, pissing in its cheerios. lol

[Indirik]

Sounds like a good enough reason to me. Let's see if Moto can pull it off. :p

[Disturbedyang]

There were a few of you, including you Noldorin that complained in the previous thread when Rio joined in the war against the northern. Correct me if i am wrong.