Ryu, Atanamir, now Erik... good guy BM!

[vonGenf]

Because a Lord who is elected is Lord. That is what Indirik was saying.

To elaborate on that, Erik could have said during the election that you did not want Eldarion to run, or any other man for that matter. That would have been an in-realm power struggle, and I don't think it would have broken any rule.

But after the election, you can't simply undo it. That's the problem.

[Eduardo Almighty]

He never said it because everyone knows. He was elected by 3 votes as always happens when people knows that the former Lord was arrested.

[Anaris]

He never said it because everyone knows. He was elected by 3 votes as always happens when people knows that the former Lord was arrested.

It doesn't matter if he was elected solely by his own vote for himself. He was elected, and became the sole rightful Lord of Montijo.

Not HIS Lord. That why he was asked to leave. He never said the election is illegitimate, just that he prefer his Lady instead of an unknown Lord that he never chose to be there.

As long as there are elections for Lordship, Erik doesn't get to choose. It doesn't matter if it's "his" duchy. The elections are valid no matter what Erik thinks or wants.

If you want to be able to choose Lords for your duchy, you have exactly one recourse: get the Ruler to change the government settings so Lords are appointed, not elected.

[Eduardo Almighty]

And knowing all of this, he did what he did and that is not a power struggle. Well... I give up 

[Indirik]

Apparently not everyone knew out, because someone ran. And was elected. So they are the lord.

This rule has nothing to do with politics or power struggles, or trying to get some cute lady noble into Erik's bed. All that stuff is distraction and irrelevancies.

If you want to run your duchy work an iron fist, then get the realm laws changed to allow that to happen. Otherwise, when someone wins an election in accordance with realm laws, they *are* the rightful, lawful, proper lord/owner. Demanding that they step down so you can appoint the prior lord because everyone knows they are the real lord and the guy that just won the election is a squatter, will just land you back in the same boat.

And yes, that may require you to alter your character's rp a bit. I'm sure you're smart enough to figure out a way to work that in.

[Eduardo Almighty]

Yes, I will have to think about it while I'm also worried how to explain that a god from a outer-world descended from the sky to take his title. Maybe Erik will call this god "The Beast with a Billion Backs".

[Constantine]

Eduardo, your argument is invalid.
In any game, if you break the rule you can not justify it with roleplay. For example, in games where griefing is explicitly forbidden, you can not grief a noob and then just say "But that's what my character would do! I'm just roleplaying!"
You still broke the rules. You'd still get punished.
That's common sense.

[Eduardo Almighty]

Really? That was why I was punished, but since the discussion continues, I'm answering questions, not trying to pledge innocence. It's not like he was caught over Perdan fire-breathing poor villagers because of RP. He did, AGAIN, what a person in power would do. That's wrong and I was punished. Period.

"That's all, folks"

[McManus_Clan]

In which case my sentiments echo De-Legro's: the rule should be re-written to properly reflect this reality. The rule saying nothing about the debatable aspect of "forcing" another to become a place holder.

I agree. I can definitely see how the placeholder rule, as read, could be interpreted as invalid pertaining to this particular case, and therefore unknowingly abused by players in the future. I think it could use further clarification, as I don't fully understand it myself, and I feel I have a pretty decent grasp on the English language.

HOWEVER, threatening to leave the game just because you lost your position puts the authorities who make these decisions in a tough spot. Say, hypothetically, that Anaris (or the "titans", or whoever) were to give in, lift the ban, and return Erik's position(s)- then every person who gets upset about any decision in the future will know that they can get their way by throwing a tantrum and threatening to leave. Either leave, or stay, but don't try to guilt your way out of a situation with threats.

Finally, if you truly believe this game is all about the RP, then losing your position shouldn't matter, should it? In fact, "long-standing Duke loses his Dukeship and is now a pauper" is a WAY more interesting plot point than "long-standing Duke continues to have his Dukeship in perpetuity".

[Eduardo Almighty]

There's nothing to do with the position... but I will not discuss the whole point of the yellow message making me look an undesirable person anymore. Happily enough I believe most of the people knows me and wish to continue playing with me even after that... if not, then leave is the only option.

Erik made ​​a threat, I made a statement.

[Eldargard]

In which case my sentiments echo De-Legro's: the rule should be re-written to properly reflect this reality. The rule saying nothing about the debatable aspect of "forcing" another to become a place holder.

I also agree. When I read the rule as literally as possible, it seems clear to me that the player of Eldarion should have been punished. He took the position and then stepped aside so the prior holder of that position could take it back. Of course, I am pretty sure that is not what was intended when this rule was made.

[Ravier Nebehn]

All of this discussion is moot anyway. There's only one person whom Eduardo can appeal to, and that's Tom. If Tom decides to intervene or clarify the intent of the rules, then there you have it.

[Eduardo Almighty]

I would never bother Tom with something like this. The verdict was given and the penalty is being fulfilled. All that is being discussed here is just that, an argue.

[flames]

From my point of view the problem here is that the realm adjusts ooc game mechanics with weird ooc rules. How it is roleplaying to hold elections for lord and then have a law that elections winner is not a true lord? I don't see any rp logic in this rule. Thus, the rule/law itself is ooc and it was not very right to use it in your rp power struggle.

[Eduardo Almighty]

No one ever said he was not the Lord of Montijo. Erik forced him, being Lord or not, to leave so he can appoint someone else.