the conflict looming

[Jens Namtrah]

That's great to hear - I have always thought BT is the island with the most potential, but I've been waiting for ages for something to happen there. I have a char who's not so excited with his current war and may be looking around.

Sharing more details would be welcome by all, I think.

---

As to the player retention - which should go in another thread, I know - you really can't expect those new players who make it past the first 24 hours to sit around for 2-3 months being told "war is coming soon" and not quit the game, unless you have a very active RP realm. I have always felt this "BM is a slow paced game" is taken to too much of an extreme by many players, and hurts the game. Folks need to think about that when discussing the player retention issue.

[Solari]

There's plenty "looming", including a bunch of !@#$%^&s who decided to play Son of Thulsoma in Thalmarkin.  That's also the reason why no details have been shared.  Since no fewer than /three/ people have contacted me on IRC knowing things they wouldn't possibly know IC, there's been no incentive to share.

[Zakilevo]

There's plenty "looming", including a bunch of !@#$%^&s who decided to play Son of Thulsoma in Thalmarkin.  That's also the reason why no details have been shared.  Since no fewer than /three/ people have contacted me on IRC knowing things they wouldn't possibly know IC, there's been no incentive to share.

Are you serious? Son of Thulsoma? wow how many of those annoying people are bugging you? lol

[Geronus]

There's plenty "looming", including a bunch of !@#$%^&s who decided to play Son of Thulsoma in Thalmarkin.  That's also the reason why no details have been shared.  Since no fewer than /three/ people have contacted me on IRC knowing things they wouldn't possibly know IC, there's been no incentive to share.

Well, that would explain why they suddenly have almost 40 characters...

[Chenier]

That's great to hear - I have always thought BT is the island with the most potential, but I've been waiting for ages for something to happen there. I have a char who's not so excited with his current war and may be looking around.

Sharing more details would be welcome by all, I think.

---

As to the player retention - which should go in another thread, I know - you really can't expect those new players who make it past the first 24 hours to sit around for 2-3 months being told "war is coming soon" and not quit the game, unless you have a very active RP realm. I have always felt this "BM is a slow paced game" is taken to too much of an extreme by many players, and hurts the game. Folks need to think about that when discussing the player retention issue.

The problem is that you joined right after an invasion. This is BT's cooldown time, the only time where it isn't at war. There is extensive damage some realms must repair, and it'd be extremely bad PR for other realms to attack them. The conflict has been looming for a while, but I personally never said "soon". But Nothoi just made a declaration against Fronen. and things usually escalate pretty quickly once they start.

Don't worry, there's enough of old grudges to go on for years.

[Jens Namtrah]

The problem is that you joined right after an invasion. This is BT's cooldown time, the only time where it isn't at war. There is extensive damage some realms must repair, and it'd be extremely bad PR for other realms to attack them. The conflict has been looming for a while, but I personally never said "soon". But Nothoi just made a declaration against Fronen. and things usually escalate pretty quickly once they start.

Don't worry, there's enough of old grudges to go on for years.

Yes. And new players will not be very concerned with all of this background information.

I only have an advy there - I don't care.  New players will quit. Old players need to stop having "cooling down periods" and "region rebuilding periods" and think about making the game fun, if they want new players to stick around.

[D`Este]

Well, it's kinda hard to fight a war with having a half destroyed realm, although i agree the war could have started a few weeks earlier...

[Geronus]

Yes. And new players will not be very concerned with all of this background information.

I only have an advy there - I don't care.  New players will quit. Old players need to stop having "cooling down periods" and "region rebuilding periods" and think about making the game fun, if they want new players to stick around.

You said before mockingly, but it is true: you can't be at war all the time. After the invasion most realms were literally incapable of waging war. Many regions were rogue, and many that were still under control were devastated. And then of course, there were some truly nasty hordes of undead and monsters pouring out of the blight and completely swamping realms like Nothoi and Enweil. You can't even think about war when you have 10k CS of undead pouring into your border regions on a daily basis. That's what most of BT has been dealing with for the past couple months. Now that rogue regions are reclaimed and the undead spawns have tapered off to a large extent, people can and are going to war. I think a lot of the delay has just been for the diplomatic maneuvering necessary to stack the odds against Fronen.

[Chenier]

Yes. And new players will not be very concerned with all of this background information.

I only have an advy there - I don't care.  New players will quit. Old players need to stop having "cooling down periods" and "region rebuilding periods" and think about making the game fun, if they want new players to stick around.

Blame the game, not the players.

What you are saying would be along the lines of telling a runner "So what if you broke your leg, your sponsors will not stick around if you quit so go and run the marathon anyways!"

If realms did not *need* that much time to rebuild, then they would *not* spend that much time. This ain't the East Continent we are talking about.

[Lefanis]

Yes. And new players will not be very concerned with all of this background information.

I only have an advy there - I don't care.  New players will quit. Old players need to stop having "cooling down periods" and "region rebuilding periods" and think about making the game fun, if they want new players to stick around.

You must move a character to BT. So by the time a player moves to BT, he usually already has a decent amount of time in the game, and is no longer "new".

[Chenier]

You must move a character to BT. So by the time a player moves to BT, he usually already has a decent amount of time in the game, and is no longer "new".

Plus, emigration is pretty scare to newbies, unless re-assured by an experienced player many will not dare make the trip.

There are very few "new" people on BT, ever, and those who do make it are almost always tutored by someone or in a group anyways.

[Jens Namtrah]

BT is simply an example where this problem is an extreme - I'm talking about the game as a whole.

And yes, you can be at a state of declared war ALL of the time, where and troopers from opposing parties who happen upon one another fight. War doesn't have to mean "everyone glom their troops into 10k cs groups and march together"

[Lorgan]

BT is simply an example where this problem is an extreme - I'm talking about the game as a whole.

And yes, you can be at a state of declared war ALL of the time, where and troopers from opposing parties who happen upon one another fight. War doesn't have to mean "everyone glom their troops into 10k cs groups and march together"

This makes me wonder if you play in Melhed by any chance? :p

Anyway, BT is just a little different as we often have to fight large invader forces together, trying to keep humanity as a whole alive. This is now true in a lesser extent as before though. Nowadays we've got realms siding with invader-forces left and right, but if you declare on BT that you truly want to the invaders to win in the end, you're sure to be shunned by most - probably all - realms.
My point being that while there are always conflicts looming on BT, there always remains the knowledge that one day you'll have to work together with your enemy if you are to survive. Everybody has experienced the death and destruction of the invasion and it is considered improper to attack a realm while it is still recovering. Thalmarkin for example had a total of 4 downsized RCs, level 1 walls in the capital and about 10,000 peasants left by the end of the invasion. There's no doubt that Fronen or Melhed could have attacked us (Melhed often had a bigger army than our own in our lands to help us against the hordes) yet they didn't for that reason.

It is also the reason that it has taken this long for war to break out again. But I assure you that it will be constant fighting from her on until the next invasion. I've never known it different, and I've lived through all invasions. Never in a realm that died and never in a realm that allied with the invaders I might add. I hope I didn't jinx it now... :p

[Anaris]

BT is simply an example where this problem is an extreme - I'm talking about the game as a whole.

And the fact remains, Jeff, that you are saying, "You must change human nature, or the game will die."

That is, at best, deeply unhelpful.

[Jens Namtrah]

And the fact remains, Jeff, that you are saying, "You must change human nature, or the game will die."

That is, at best, deeply unhelpful.

Not in the least.

I'm saying you can wage small-scale war while rebuilding your regions, instead of being 100% one thing for months and months, then switching the other way 100%.

Nor did I say "do this or the game will die". I am pointing out another part of this game I think is very unattractive to newer players and saying I think you should consider this when discussing your "player retention" campaign.

Putting hyperbolic words into my mouth that I never said or hinted at is also deeply unhelpful, Timothy.