The Great Northern Civil War

[Vita`]

I don't really care more about the IC aspects of the discussion, we could be discussing Kepler and Evilburg for all I care. I just want to point out how redundant it seems to do what you wish. The name issue was perhaps the only thing that did seem sensible for requiring a new realm. The rest seems perfectly possible without a week-long capital TO and several more weeks of creating new-realm delays, depending on how well-oiled the plan is.

Delays such as, are you creating a new duchy for the new realm? Wait another two weeks if you haven't made the duchy yet. Or using an existing duchy to secede asap after taking city? You saved two weeks. Are you going to linger around more weeks and months to get everything perfectly ready for the new realm, but oh wait, now the realm needs to finish a new war before we can form the new realm? Etc.

Fighting to the last is at least engaging to the players. I enjoy the diversity of experiences in realms making the decision to bend the knee for survival and revenge-another-day (or not) or fighting to the glorious end; different realms have different cultures and histories affecting such decisions. I don't fault Barca for choosing to fight to the glorious end, nor do I fault Fissoa or Astrum for coming to terms. Eponllyn has both accepted terms and decided to fight to the bitter end, at different times (yay, we survived our fight to the bitter end!). The various Vales of Beluaterra have alternated between the two extremes, as well. Neither fighting to the end or accepting terms to survive another day are bad in and of themselves. As long as the path is engaging to the players of the nobility. I suspect more players were lost while they were only sitting in the city, not actively engaging the enemy. Letting them rot and starve doesn't increase player engagement.

[Ossan]

The new realm idea was mostly just a last proposal kind of thrown out there because they'd rejected everything else and refused to accept defeat which is long past the point of stubborn foolishness. I doubt anyone expected it to be accepted and I don't agree they need to form a new realm.

[GundamMerc]

Considering the mass spamming of militia that Arnor is obssessed with, I personally wouldn't mind a game mechanic that causes militia to get a bit power-hungry and declare themselves independent when the militia outnumbers mobile forces by the margin it does in Arnor. I've seen 20k militia at the least in three regions alone (none of which was a city), while their mobile army I've seen barely keeps pace with our own despite them having 50% more nobles than us we had 7k CS at the most, and only 5k CS are in the region their army is taking over currently.

It's killing any kind of fun fight that could be had.

[Gabanus family]

You might be right.  It's not my decision though.  I had a great deal lined up for them.  They are not interested in capitulation.  Their ruler seems to think there is some glory in fighting to the last.  Which is very dumb.  They've already lost over half their nobles trying that.  That's why I say let them rot and starve.  There is no glory in fighting to the last.  If they really think that then deny them that priveledge.  Let them rot and starve.

I can tell you from experience that there can be great glory by fighting to the last!

I've led Sartania to her doom, almost destroying Arcaea, but when Lasanar split up the war turned south and ultimately she was destroyed. The entire war on both sides and everything around it was great untill the end. And even now you have Sartanians roaming the earth, but we fought till the last. I was there when Ibladesh came to her end. I can assure you that I personally had more fun and glory in those two realms than I for instance had in Abington during the last week or so (before that it was a lot, a lot of fun) where the Dukes split up the realm into Suville and Caergoth in order to survive.

And AQ isn't dead yet, if they find something entertaining to do in the meantime they just have to wait until Arnor is busy to assault (hopefully finding an ally in the process to take the townsland).

[Vita`]

Well, there are tradeoffs, and you've noticed them. If you become heavily dependent on militia, you have less gold available, whcih results in a smaller mobile force. So because most of their CS is stationary and not mobile, they're perhaps much more defended, but far less flexible in responding to attacks from different directions.

[GundamMerc]

Well, there are tradeoffs, and you've noticed them. If you become heavily dependent on militia, you have less gold available, whcih results in a smaller mobile force. So because most of their CS is stationary and not mobile, they're perhaps much more defended, but far less flexible in responding to attacks from different directions.

Except the fact that you can support far more CS in Militia than you can in a mobile force, so it serves to allow a realm to support for more CS than it should be able to (to the point where they can block off entire fronts). Any attempt to attack is ultimately futile, as the lord can just put more militia there to replace it. Militia is too easy to recruit and too hard to destroy. It doesn't serve to create fun, it just stagnates a conflict. I personally could have just as easily put up a wall of militia to keep out Arnor and Morek. I chose not to, because I don't want this war to turn into a boring staring contest where every realm involved loses nobles in droves.

I'm not going to be the one to cause stagnation in all of this, that depends on what Arnor and Morek do after this war.

[dustole]

Considering the mass spamming of militia that Arnor is obssessed with, I personally wouldn't mind a game mechanic that causes militia to get a bit power-hungry and declare themselves independent when the militia outnumbers mobile forces by the margin it does in Arnor. I've seen 20k militia at the least in three regions alone (none of which was a city), while their mobile army I've seen barely keeps pace with our own despite them having 50% more nobles than us we had 7k CS at the most, and only 5k CS are in the region their army is taking over currently.

It's killing any kind of fun fight that could be had.

But their whole army wasn't doing the take over.  Part of it was in the north fighting by Springdale.

[GundamMerc]

But their whole army wasn't doing the take over.  Part of it was in the north fighting by Springdale.

5k CS in the south doing the takeover and about 2k CS fighting Springdale. Yes, I know. Again, that about equals what we fielded against Astrum.

[Ossan]

Welcome to my prison!

[GundamMerc]

I noticed.

[Gabanus family]

I do agree with Dustole here that militia should be nerfed somehow. But the exact way of doing so is very difficult. And yes I'm saying that even though I pumped Oligarch full with militia when Sirion came knocking. Even then I was already saying it, but while it's there I'll use the militia just as Sirion does.

I have made the statement though that I will not use the peasant militia should they ever breach the walls. That game mechanic is a total fail in my eyes.

[Indirik]

I'm not going to be the one to cause stagnation in all of this, that depends on what Arnor and Morek do after this war.

What Morek does? Don't blame this on us. You're the one that declared the war.

[GundamMerc]

What Morek does? Don't blame this on us. You're the one that declared the war.

How does that change the outcome of Arnor taking Springdale and having sovereignty over most of Morek Empire's old territory, plus allies north and south of Astrum, Helyg Derwyddon, and soon to be Westfold?

Besides, Morek has had plenty of chances to make a meaningful conflict out of this, but has taken the easy road throughout.

[dustole]

How does that change the outcome of Arnor taking Springdale and having sovereignty over most of Morek Empire's old territory, plus allies north and south of Astrum, Helyg Derwyddon, and soon to be Westfold?

Besides, Morek has had plenty of chances to make a meaningful conflict out of this, but has taken the easy road throughout.

meaningful conflict?  We went from 4 nobles protesting each other to having a 2 noble mobile army to assist in a battle of Springdale.  We managed only a 50% movement rate for that combat and went to refit. 

Now we have more nobles, but it still took me 10days to get half the army to arrive in Zhongyuan.  We've had about all of the meaningful contribution to this conflict that we can manage.  Had I not bought Nihm we'd still be there trying to do a take over.   Now, we might be able to start a take over of Zhongyuan if we're lucky.

[GundamMerc]

meaningful conflict?  We went from 4 nobles protesting each other to having a 2 noble mobile army to assist in a battle of Springdale.  We managed only a 50% movement rate for that combat and went to refit. 

Now we have more nobles, but it still took me 10days to get half the army to arrive in Zhongyuan.  We've had about all of the meaningful contribution to this conflict that we can manage.  Had I not bought Nihm we'd still be there trying to do a take over.   Now, we might be able to start a take over of Zhongyuan if we're lucky.

That's your problem, you're waiting for the army to be ready. Rule #1 of Armies: they're never ready. If you wait for them, then they'll become lazy and wait even more for you.