Retention Revisited

[Indirik]

Dwilight can also be a cold shower for some, particularly those who come in with 'silly' names and expect a lighthearted game... I'm gonna guess and say that SMA has driven quite a few newbies away already.

The island description for Dwilight does mention SMA, and provides a link to the wiki SMA page. Anyone who bothers to read should see that, and know at least a bit of what they're getting into.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

We probably shouldn't overestimate new players so much. I don't think Dwilight is appropriate as a newbie-accessible island. BT isn't, and that was probably due to Invasions rather than any significant human mechanics. Well, Dwilight is much more different than the other continents (More so than 1 turn a day Colonies). You get only 1 noble character on the continent. You have to have a proper name. You have to be serious about what you say and do (Kind of).

I just don't think Dwilight is a very good continent to let new players join in immediately. It is far better to give them the other options (Yes, even BT) so they have some room to understand the feel of things before going off to the more "serious" place.

Hey, I even got SMA complaints against me for not using someone's full title...and the only time I did that was to this guy who insisted on signing his letters with a period at the end (this: . ) and continued to call me Garett (OMG!!!! How hard is it to copy+paste my signature?!) It made me scratch my head in annoyance.

Anyway, that's what I think ought to be the future for Dwilight. Does that mean fewer players will come? Possibly. But I think that way more people will actually stay.

[Indirik]

Hey, I even got SMA complaints against me for not using someone's full title...and the only time I did that was to this guy who insisted on signing his letters with a period at the end (this: . ) and continued to call me Garett (OMG!!!! How hard is it to copy+paste my signature?!) It made me scratch my head in annoyance.

He he he... The infamous Noble family.

[Perth]

Hey, I even got SMA complaints against me for not using someone's full title...

I hope you weren't "punished" in any way.

It shouldn't be against SMA to not use someone's title, but you should expect them to get offended (and they should) if you don't unless maybe you are very, very close friends.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

I often insist to commoners that they shouldn't care about my titles and just call me Garret. Nobles are a different story. Man, why are nobles so troublesome?

[Chenier]

Heh, maybe we should instead switch the emigration restriction to Dwilight instead of BT. With the way BT is now, and the likely result that we won't see any future Invasions in the same form as we have thusfar, I see no harm in letting people start directly in blight-ridden BT. On the other hand, I think it would be a slight jolt for people to be forced to have only one character, and be unable to roleplay Sir Deathrider Midnightdawn as a guitar-playing flamenco-dancing ninja detective scientist (I'm pretty sure you can get away with that on AT). Well, at least they'd get yelled at for doing that on Dwilight.

So my thought is that we do the immigration only for Dwilight, and lift BT's restrictions. Or at the very least impose the restriction on Dwilight and leave BT the way it is. But that would mean both testing continents are immigration only, which I don't think is a good idea.

Call me an elitist, but I kinda like that you can't create new characters on BT. Mind you, I kinda hate that it means we get so many less people, too... but that's a lot because of how estates work. The plus side of being less is that it takes less to topple any government.

[Vellos]

We probably shouldn't overestimate new players so much. I don't think Dwilight is appropriate as a newbie-accessible island. BT isn't, and that was probably due to Invasions rather than any significant human mechanics. Well, Dwilight is much more different than the other continents (More so than 1 turn a day Colonies). You get only 1 noble character on the continent. You have to have a proper name. You have to be serious about what you say and do (Kind of).

I just don't think Dwilight is a very good continent to let new players join in immediately. It is far better to give them the other options (Yes, even BT) so they have some room to understand the feel of things before going off to the more "serious" place.

Hey, I even got SMA complaints against me for not using someone's full title...and the only time I did that was to this guy who insisted on signing his letters with a period at the end (this: . ) and continued to call me Garett (OMG!!!! How hard is it to copy+paste my signature?!) It made me scratch my head in annoyance.

Anyway, that's what I think ought to be the future for Dwilight. Does that mean fewer players will come? Possibly. But I think that way more people will actually stay.

I completely and totally disagree with this.

Dwilight is a piece of cake to keep new players in. Terran very rarely loses a new player. Constant fighting, frequent position turnover due to regions gained/lost, interesting religious dynamics, opportunities for expansion, constant demand for knights empowering the lower ranks...

Teaching new players SMA improves the whole game. Dwilight is already underpopulated; don't restrict it even more (especially since it's one of the only continents that is statistically not completely !@#$ing up in terms of retention).

[Heq]

As someone on both sides of the equation, I feel justified in saying that it's not continents but nations.

Caerwyn hemmorages new nobles, because sure you get some greetings but it seems like new players are being used in a faction or schemed for or manipulated.  Arcachon doesn't seem to have that problem at all.  I think it's a very small sample size but people dislike feeling used.  One of the selling points of the game is that you're part of a team from the start and I think it makes a big difference to new players as to if they are pawns in someone's scheme or if they are being brought into a club that has your back if something goes wrong.

Again small sample size, but that's just what I've noticed.

[Silverfire]

As someone on both sides of the equation, I feel justified in saying that it's not continents but nations.

Caerwyn hemmorages new nobles, because sure you get some greetings but it seems like new players are being used in a faction or schemed for or manipulated.  Arcachon doesn't seem to have that problem at all.  I think it's a very small sample size but people dislike feeling used.  One of the selling points of the game is that you're part of a team from the start and I think it makes a big difference to new players as to if they are pawns in someone's scheme or if they are being brought into a club that has your back if something goes wrong.

Again small sample size, but that's just what I've noticed.

Maybe its just me and those I play with, but I would have thought being brought into a scheme by a long-standing player would be just the thing to hook a new player. My favorite part of the game is working on the politics of trying to either gain power, or prevent abuse of power. Of course working together as a team for fighting wars and battles is important, but sometimes fixing teams that aren't working well is equally as important.

[Perth]

Maybe its just me and those I play with, but I would have thought being brought into a scheme by a long-standing player would be just the thing to hook a new player.

I think he's probably referring too the attitude of talking to a new player just enough to get them to set up an estate and put them in army and then hoping they'll follow orders. Not the good kind of incorporation where the new player is talked, taken time to get to know, and then brought into an existing faction or power group.

[Chenier]

Maybe its just me and those I play with, but I would have thought being brought into a scheme by a long-standing player would be just the thing to hook a new player. My favorite part of the game is working on the politics of trying to either gain power, or prevent abuse of power. Of course working together as a team for fighting wars and battles is important, but sometimes fixing teams that aren't working well is equally as important.

I'd think too, but I tend to see apathy more than anything when I do this. Mind you, new players as a whole are usually not responsive at all. You welcome them, explain a bit what's going on, and tell them you are available for them if they have any questions, and then never get a reply. Just sucks all the will to  even bother with them right out of you.

[Heq]

Yeah, it's the whole "New players are good rubes" game.  They don't know what a good offer is, or what's really going on, so they get drafted by one guy or other and never really have a full picture of what's going on or why.  Then they're just left to sort of lollygag around without any direction.

[Vellos]

Which is why experienced players have to:
1. Repeatedly follow up
2. Offer opportunities for involvement directly
3. Be generous

In order to get good retention.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

1. Easy enough to do. For some reason a lot are too lazy even for this.

2. Not as easy as #1, though enough opportunities present themselves. Though more often than not the new player doesn't take advantage of this, so you shrug and leave him be.

3. Haha...yeah...sure. Maybe like 5 people in the entire game who actually want to do that with pure intentions. (Hint: I'm not one of them. If anyone actually listens to me, it will be in order to further my own goals, whatever they might be.)

[Vellos]

1. Easy enough to do. For some reason a lot are too lazy even for this.

2. Not as easy as #1, though enough opportunities present themselves. Though more often than not the new player doesn't take advantage of this, so you shrug and leave him be.

3. Haha...yeah...sure. Maybe like 5 people in the entire game who actually want to do that with pure intentions. (Hint: I'm not one of them. If anyone actually listens to me, it will be in order to further my own goals, whatever they might be.)

#2 isn't so hard. Even if you just pull some random "reconnaissance" mission out of your butt and send a new player out into the wilds with a bunch of scouts. A sense of purpose, a mission, these things help get new players connected. I personally plan to give a newbie-initiation mission soon of "delivering funds." I will get the new player to join a guild, send 100 gold, then deploy/him her to some mid-distance location with orders to deposit the funds at a guildhouse. This gets the character in a guild, teaches the player about guildhouses, ensures my guild is properly funded, teaches about travel, and gets involvement and the sense of a mission fulfilled.

#3... I didn't say with pure intentions. I fully expect that my generosity with new players will be repaid. It has in the past: my character in Terran is quite politically powerful, partly because he actively recruits new nobles to his following. Generosity with political ramifications may be even better for retention.