Ways to improve Dukes

[pcw27]

I saw it suggested in another thread that we make this a thread as well. Inactive Dukes has been a complaint for a very long time now. Ideally they should be a major source of conflict and intrigue. In my other thread I suggested some ways to make dukes more interesting within existing mechanics so this will focus on new ones.

One which has come up is allowing the King to levy specific tax rates on individual dukes. I'm all for this.

My new suggestion, add Dukes to the protest feature. Maybe only for their vassals but maybe for the whole realm. Duke is a high ranking position and should be open to scrutiny.

[Zakilevo]

Just no. Dukes should be untouchable. They need to be powerful to give more weight to the position.

What I think should be changed is 'Royal Dukes'. If you become a duke you should lose 'Royal' status. It is almost impossible to remove these people.

[Vita`]

One which has come up is allowing the King to levy specific tax rates on individual dukes. I'm all for this.

This has been approved for a long time, as well as for a duke upon individual lords. Just no one has bothered to implement it.

My new suggestion, add Dukes to the protest feature.

This is a TODO that's a decade old. For members of the duchy of their respective duke.

[Vita`]

Just no. Dukes should be untouchable. They need to be powerful to give more weight to the position.

What I think should be changed is 'Royal Dukes'. If you become a duke you should lose 'Royal' status. It is almost impossible to remove these people.

No, dukes are too untouchable. The protest mechanic is a reasonable limit on them. A royal duke can be protested out of the duchy, if not the royal status.

[Zakilevo]

No, dukes are too untouchable. The protest mechanic is a reasonable limit on them. A royal duke can be protested out of the duchy, if not the royal status.

I would have agreed if we had a lot of players but with so few players, 1 or 2 people can just protest a duke out.

[Gabanus family]

No, dukes are too untouchable. The protest mechanic is a reasonable limit on them. A royal duke can be protested out of the duchy, if not the royal status.

I agree with Zakky, this just puts extra abuse on the system. The special taxes are perfect and I agree even with removing the royal status as well. I've always been an action of more intrique with Dukes (as I think my actions have shown as well), but I disagree 100% with protesting Dukes out as well. The same with protesting Lords out, that should not be done. If the above two are implemented, that should give enough fire to 'fight' Dukes to begin with now.

And I say this not because I fear losing my ducal positions, because I only have 1 left and he would never be protested out as he's very loved within his own realm. I'm saying this because I genuinly feel this would ruin the game to quite a certain extend, especially for smaller realms.

[JDodger]

you guys are once again looking for code solutions to people problems, but i do agree that at this point there should be mechanics to remove dukes from power.

my personal suggestion is to give rulers the ability to strip dukes of their title, but make it take time and give the duke a couple days' warning to give them the opportunity to secede or defect their duchy. if they are really inactive and unpopular the region lords will defect back to the original realm, if the ruler miscalculated he may have a real problem on his hands...

[Gabanus family]

you guys are once again looking for code solutions to people problems, but i do agree that at this point there should be mechanics to remove dukes from power.

my personal suggestion is to give rulers the ability to strip dukes of their title, but make it take time and give the duke a couple days' warning to give them the opportunity to secede or defect their duchy. if they are really inactive and unpopular the region lords will defect back to the original realm, if the ruler miscalculated he may have a real problem on his hands...

Isn't that already an option with banning him (except the royal thing)?

[GundamMerc]

I personally would like to see protests. If your duke is inactive, you can just get rid of him.

[JDodger]

i believe if you get banned you cant secede, removing much of the possible intrigue that could result.

judges are a lot weaker than dukes in most cases, and often its a situation where the only issue with the char is their laziness in their position. no one wants to ban people for inactivity especially someone who must have, at some point, been a useful and liked member of the realm.  we see how often stagnant dukes get banned, its not really done at all.

dukes losing royal status makes no sense as most if not all rulers in a feudal system were dukes as well. however royal status preventing bans makes no sense to me at all, how many rulers throughout history lost their thrones and got to hang around causing problems for the new ruler?

and in case anyone thought "but the ruler can exile them" ... exile is a completely useless and suicidal feature, clicking upon which will allow your rival full ability to troll you in a way unparalleled in its savagery.

i cant stand protests at all, from concept to execution. rebellions should be made more even instead of having such a silly and unrealistic feature. for other council positions you should have to petition the ruler to strip them of their titles, or get them assassinated. protests are an ultimate lowest common denominator, low risk, cowardly feature.

[Zakilevo]

Exile is completely useless. It is a horrible feature that serves no purpose.

[Gabanus family]

I'm pretty sure a Duke can secceed if he's banned.

Also if the inactive Duke is such a problem, you can get rid of him by banning him. That it's never done has more to do with the player base than with any coding I think. And an inactive Duke often doesn't provide funding to a war etc, so that would be enough reason to ban him if you want. If you ruler/judge are unwilling to do so, perhaps rebel in stead.

I think many of the issues here are player based, not mechannically based. Protesting Dukes just breeds exploits though and I will restate my extreme dislike towards this option, despite my agreement that we should all try to make things more lively, there are better ways than adding protesting though.

[JDodger]

i think there are better ways to handle a player not living up to the expectation of their position than banning them. in a lot of cases these are players who were once highly valuable to their realm who now simply dont have the time or desire or whatever to play as much. there should be options, just like for council positions, to remove the duke title without kicking them out of the realm.

[Anaris]

i believe if you get banned you cant secede, removing much of the possible intrigue that could result.

Completely false. Banning a Duke when he's in his Duchy is about the most dangerous thing you can do, because he can either secede or change allegiance before the ban goes into effect.

[JDodger]

i stand corrected. now that i think of it i was confusing bans with switching allegiance during a to