The Current War

[Perth]

Coria can support over twice its current noble count and still not need to take any more regions. Give us that, and I can guarantee you that Coria can one on one fight against Eston and win.

Well, sure. But Eston could also support twice the noble count it currently has. We're floating around 40-45 nobles as is. When I first joined Eston, we were smaller than we are today and had a noble count around 80-85. Sad times we live in. Eston feels like a skeleton of its former self. We can't even appoint new Lords without adding to the list of Knightless regions.

To be honest, the Northern realms are no better than the CE, as Darka and BoM are just as arrogant if not more.

   

Surely, Eston hasn't shown itself arrogant? I think, if I do say so myself, Eston has been nothing but honest with Coria.

And I think safe positions breed the most arrogance. The truly arrogant realms on Atamara at the moment are all the ones who are involved in the war but are seeing none of it on their own soil: Tara, Darka, BoM.

Talerium is also using the buffer zone role in this war with the difference they actually have an importance as size but at least they do it with dignity and with cards open,

I think my mouth hung open for a few minutes after reading this. The idea of Talerium being open, having dignity, or any other trait other than being cowardly, selfish, lying snakes in the grass is a concept completely beyond me. Though maybe that's just idea we have in Eston 

I stated simply we were part of the "most organized and efficient allied military system" That has nothing to do with how strong our military is. However the military leaders and cooperation that is involved in the alliance that we are a part of ( and contribute to) is unparralleled.

Probably pretty true. Then again, it's easy to look that way when up against perhaps the most unorganized and inefficient allied military system perhaps in the game.

I kind of like to think of the current war as the barbarian invasions of the Roman Empire, only much less successful. Roves of random bands of northern troops roam around independently and refusing to cooperate with one another, while periodic large armies from the south show up, kill a smaller northern army, and then loot Eston.

However, the way the Empire Alliance has been able to completely keep the northern realms stuck in the north through basically manipulating diplomatic situations is something impressive for sure. Like, really, why the HELL has the northern alliance not been able to sack Eaglin by now? Oh yeah, Darka is buddy buddy with Talerium who routinely marches into Eston and loots like crazy and Darka seems to not care/notice; and Eston is friendly with Coria who for some reason infuriates the living daylights out of Kostaja and Sordnaz to no end lol.


One last thing: I love how the massive, continent wide war that was meant to end the grid lock and boring dullness of Atamara has basically turned into one huge, boring stalemate. 

[Silverfire]

First of all can I say that this entire post gave me a good laugh? Quite humorous indeed.

Well, sure. But Eston could also support twice the noble count it currently has. We're floating around 40-45 nobles as is. When I first joined Eston, we were smaller than we are today and had a noble count around 80-85. Sad times we live in. Eston feels like a skeleton of its former self. We can't even appoint new Lords without adding to the list of Knightless regions.

Fair enough because Coria is at 20 nobles, and when it was founded had 35 nobles and half its current landmass.

Surely, Eston hasn't shown itself arrogant? I think, if I do say so myself, Eston has been nothing but honest with Coria.

And I think safe positions breed the most arrogance. The truly arrogant realms on Atamara at the moment are all the ones who are involved in the war but are seeing none of it on their own soil: Tara, Darka, BoM.

True enough, Eston has been honest with Coria. (except for being able to control their allies from breaking treaties) And True as well, but I haven't been able to see Tara's firsthand due to being on the wrong side.

I think my mouth hung open for a few minutes after reading this. The idea of Talerium being open, having dignity, or any other trait other than being cowardly, selfish, lying snakes in the grass is a concept completely beyond me. Though maybe that's just idea we have in Eston 

To be fair, this is likely just due to being from Eston. I'm sure Talerium would say the same thing about you.

Probably pretty true. Then again, it's easy to look that way when up against perhaps the most unorganized and inefficient allied military system perhaps in the game.

I kind of like to think of the current war as the barbarian invasions of the Roman Empire, only much less successful. Roves of random bands of northern troops roam around independently and refusing to cooperate with one another, while periodic large armies from the south show up, kill a smaller northern army, and then loot Eston.

However, the way the Empire Alliance has been able to completely keep the northern realms stuck in the north through basically manipulating diplomatic situations is something impressive for sure. Like, really, why the HELL has the northern alliance not been able to sack Eaglin by now? Oh yeah, Darka is buddy buddy with Talerium who routinely marches into Eston and loots like crazy and Darka seems to not care/notice; and Eston is friendly with Coria who for some reason infuriates the living daylights out of Kostaja and Sordnaz to no end lol.

Its interesting because CE would probably like to think of itself AS the Roman Empire itself. Not to mention its being invaded by Vikings. hehe. (well attempted at least) Its also likely a true fact that we may be given too much credit because our opponents are highly unorganized. I mean if the opponents of the CE bloc were highly organized it would be a guaranteed victory. I mean line up every realm for and against them, and their military forces end up be double what CE's allied bloc can field. (or more). Not to mention that the entire island is a pincer attack which is supposed to be good for military strategy.

Also, its not Coria's fault that Sordnaz is one of the most stubborn, prideful, and easily irritated rulers I've ever seen. That's not an insult, I mean its to be expected when you're dictator for over 6 real life years in this game. As far as Kostaja goes, I mean we've got a mercenary who is pretending to not be a mercenary for the duration of this war which I expect will last at least another real life year or more, so Kostaja is bound to get upset easily at things because he doesn't know how to act in their current situation. For all fairness sake, this couldn't possibly be blamed on Coria. (If anything, it may be able to be blamed on Merlin, but that's not 100% fair) (Warning: Lots of sarcasm)

One last thing: I love how the massive, continent wide war that was meant to end the grid lock and boring dullness of Atamara has basically turned into one huge, boring stalemate. 

Wait, its not? I thought for sure this was the goal. It was either that or it was to allow CE to finally have a reason to supplant every non-CE bloc realm with a CE colony so they can finally achieve world domination. Btw, it isn't a huge boring stalemate. From what I can tell CE is slowly but surely winning.

[LilWolf]

As far as I'm aware Darka never signed any treaty with Coria. There were talks, sure, but Darka never signed anything. Eston probably did and assumed everything was fine and dandy 

The issue the northern realms have is that Eston seems to be stuck in a mindset that the war is all about them. All about defending their lands. They're unwilling to move out to actually do damage to CE/Tara. On paper it might seem the north is pretty strong, but when in reality most of the force that's willing to do damage is Darka and what ever BoM can muster, it's not much against both Tara and CE.

[Lavigna]

However, the way the Empire Alliance has been able to completely keep the northern realms stuck in the north through basically manipulating diplomatic situations is something impressive for sure. Like, really, why the HELL has the northern alliance not been able to sack Eaglin by now? Oh yeah, Darka is buddy buddy with Talerium who routinely marches into Eston and loots like crazy and Darka seems to not care/notice; and Eston is friendly with Coria who for some reason infuriates the living daylights out of Kostaja and Sordnaz to no end lol.

Seriously? Nor care not notice?We came to defend you countless times and most of the times we were the ones to ask if there is any need because it seems you were so proud to ask for that help  in the first place.

Yes Darka cannot attack Talerium but yes there is a mutual agreement on that matter and even when Kostaja tries to establish that by making talks for Cantril i didn't see Eston pretty interested in even answering on it.

And I think safe positions breed the most arrogance. The truly arrogant realms on Atamara at the moment are all the ones who are involved in the war but are seeing none of it on their own soil: Tara, Darka, BoM.

You know it's funny you say that because maybe at least Darka doesn't get a war at her soil but Darka also has NO PASS into the enemy soils without traveling for two weeks or "breaking" agreements.What you give is what you get.We cannot damage the enemy as we can and we get no damage from the enemy either.Also Ce could easily walk into Darka if they wanted,Tara declared war to Darka,they could easily march into it.There is no aggreement that doesn't allow it,it is their choice.

And in fact when Kostaja is trying to open Cantril for Darka that is going to work BOTH ways.So don't you blame that on Darka at least.

This war is the most boring war i ever saw.Apart Carelia and CE that can have a clear war between them the rest of the battles are jokes.It is always a back and forth.There is absolutely no way to actually cause a damage in this war.

And while you criticize  the buddy buddy relationship of Darka and Talerium maybe you should think over from the buddy buddy relationship of Eston and Coria.You call it an honest one,well an honest one it is for Darka and Talerium as well.Maybe you don't like it because it damages you but then again this is why i don't like Coria as well,because it damages our expeditions.

As mucha s we discuss this OOC it is obvious that everyone talks according the way he/she sees his realm in this war and from the things he/she knows from the talks behind scenes this is why is totally personal opinion and not a fact or a neutral point of view.

If diplomacy didn't exist i could preddict you according to these comments the real wars that would be fought and how the alliances would dramatically change.So yeah pretty pointless discussing them if you ask me.

[Perth]

To be fair, this is likely just due to being from Eston. I'm sure Talerium would say the same thing about you.

I'm sure! lol

Wait, its not? I thought for sure this was the goal. It was either that or it was to allow CE to finally have a reason to supplant every non-CE bloc realm with a CE colony so they can finally achieve world domination. Btw, it isn't a huge boring stalemate. From what I can tell CE is slowly but surely winning.

LOL totally.

The issue the northern realms have is that Eston seems to be stuck in a mindset that the war is all about them. All about defending their lands. They're unwilling to move out to actually do damage to CE/Tara. On paper it might seem the north is pretty strong, but when in reality most of the force that's willing to do damage is Darka and what ever BoM can muster, it's not much against both Tara and CE.

Trust me, if we COULD do that we would LOVE to do that. How do you expect the Eston army to march off a week's travel away into Tara when the second we do a Talerium army will march straight into Eston and loot and destory literally every region they can get their hands on, including cities like Hawthrone or Barac Lacirith?

I am honestly completely dumbfounded at how you think currently a big focus of our efforts can be something other than defending Eston lands? Did you not see the 30,000+CS army of Talerium, CE and Tara troops that marched through the heartland of Eston last week looting, destorying infrastructure, and raping and pillaging? What are we supposed to do, just ignore that?

Seriously? Nor care not notice?We came to defend you countless times and most of the times we were the ones to ask if there is any need because it seems you were so proud to ask for that help  in the first place.

Yes Darka cannot attack Talerium but yes there is a mutual agreement on that matter and even when Kostaja tries to establish that by making talks for Cantril i didn't see Eston pretty interested in even answering on it.

I was exaggerating a little, I apologize. It was more reference to the fact that, in Eston's perception, all Darka wants to do is run suicide missions over the mountains into Tara which doesn't accomplish much.

And I understand Darka's friendship with Talerium, but from an OOC standpoint you have to be able to see that if Darka was willing to attack Talerium the war would change DRAMATICALLY in a number of weeks. If Darka attacked Talerium then Talerium would fall and be neutralized in a couple weeks and the allies would have an easy, straight path into the Cagilan Empire. Surely, you can see this from an OOC viewpoint?

You know it's funny you say that because maybe at least Darka doesn't get a war at her soil but Darka also has NO PASS into the enemy soils without traveling for two weeks or "breaking" agreements.What you give is what you get.We cannot damage the enemy as we can and we get no damage from the enemy either.Also Ce could easily walk into Darka if they wanted,Tara declared war to Darka,they could easily march into it.There is no aggreement that doesn't allow it,it is their choice.

I wasn't trying to insult anyone by saying the war wasn't on your soil. To your credit you've played your cards right to where you can fight in this war without having to worry about attacks on your homeland. That's a good thing. I wish Eston was able to have that position.

And while you criticize  the buddy buddy relationship of Darka and Talerium maybe you should think over from the buddy buddy relationship of Eston and Coria.You call it an honest one,well an honest one it is for Darka and Talerium as well.Maybe you don't like it because it damages you but then again this is why i don't like Coria as well,because it damages our expeditions.

How? Eston's friendship with Coria doesn't keep the northern alliance from marching into CE, while the Talerium and Darka friendship does just that. Also, Coria isn't routinely invading Darka. Talerium routinely invades Eston. I don't see how their is much comparison, honestly.

[Lavigna]

I was exaggerating a little, I apologize. It was more reference to the fact that, in Eston's perception, all Darka wants to do is run suicide missions over the mountains into Tara which doesn't accomplish much.

And I understand Darka's friendship with Talerium, but from an OOC standpoint you have to be able to see that if Darka was willing to attack Talerium the war would change DRAMATICALLY in a number of weeks. If Darka attacked Talerium then Talerium would fall and be neutralized in a couple weeks and the allies would have an easy, straight path into the Cagilan Empire. Surely, you can see this from an OOC viewpoint?

I won't argue on that for sure If Darka could enter Cantril ,Eaglin would be down by now.To that i agree.On the other hand if we broke this alliance with Talerium we would be limited back to defend the path from Cantril as you are doing now as well.You passed from aggressive to defending which is normal to a certain level.

Suicide missions to CE from the Mountains are a pain.I said that a million times.If there is someone who absolutely hate those mountains that is me.But let's be honest,if Coria didn't interfere to our recent battles with Tara we would still be there looting them.They didn't see us coming,they weren't prepared.

The northern alliance is blocked in this war,we are limited within the borders of our alliance one way or another.If Eston for example could march through Coria it would make a significant change.Eston would be able to take her blood back for the looting they suffered  and win their army leaving for example CE without an ally so with an open backdoor.

This is why it's not simple.Coria is a mysterious train,from one point of view she tries to be neutral but with great restrictions but we all know they are part of CE-Tara-Talerium alliance and as it seems(could be wrong but oh well i doubt i am) Eston wants to ally with Coria at a point...it is one big weird thing and thorn on our backs.

From what i know and i know it from first hand Darka did try to open Cantril ,Eston should support that and this would end the whole story,but there was not much enthusiasm on the matter i think.

[Bedwyr]

I mean line up every realm for and against them, and their military forces end up be double what CE's allied bloc can field. (or more). Not to mention that the entire island is a pincer attack which is supposed to be good for military strategy.

In classic, real-world military strategy pincer attacks are arguable because of the advantage of interior lines.  A number of the benefits of interior lines are negated by the BM message system, but there are still significant remaining ones, especially when the size of the war front is severely limited on each side.  And one of the major remaining benefits is that of smaller refit times, which the CE has used to devastating effect.  Not to mention certain realms being so mind-numbingly stupid (or distrustful) as to keep half their CS in militia when they need to be throwing everything they have into the war.

And unfortunately, what this war amounts to is a (very) loose coalition of "Arrgh, we don't like bein' tole wat to do!" realms against a unified alliance that has an integrated command structure and is used to fighting on the same side.  I see it more like the Brown Coats vs the Alliance in Firefly.  The only unifying theme in the coalition is "we don't like them" whereas there are many, many unifying themes in the alliance.

And yeah, you dumb!@#$ northerners may think this war is a stalemate, but it's really not.  Take a look at the map and remember that Carelia's borders used to extend to Oyonniarre and Garnagi, and then realize that everything (and I mean everything) west of Strombran is at this point a burned-out husk.

Get moving, Darka/Eston/BoM, or you're going to wake up one day and realize that Carelia's had a rebellion and a new, CE-friendly Ruler is on the throne, and then those nice buddy-buddy relationships with Coria and Talerium aren't going to be worth !@#$ after the southern front finishes and the full forces of the much, much stronger CE-bloc turn your way.

[Gustav Kuriga]

I question the wisdom of signing a treaty that disallows travel over the regions of a realm who you were just sacking the capitol of. 

[Carna]

Well said, Matthew. Its clear enough that the "north" isn't pushing the Imperial forces hard enough to do lasting damage, but lasting damage is certainly being done in the south east. CE won't just try set a new ruler on Carelia's throne though, they'll want Nida and Skalk Duchies expanded, and may consider doing to Carelia what they did to Falasan with Barad Falas. That's really a worst-case for Carelia, but its not a good situation for the north either. It simply makes CE more powerful and the current opposition quite a bit weaker. The problem seems to be some sort of apathy from those moving against CE, with those making efforts facing apathy, or worse, being relatively apathetic themselves, which is seriously disheartening for those other active souls who are hoping for a bit of enthusiasm themselves. A bleak picture, but it could all change in a heartbeat. CE's gains in the south need to be made permanent and them to turn their full attentions north before there is any realistically expected outcome. If things keep going as they are though, the writing is on the wall.

Its said that this war is a stalemate or slow going because of the limited borders for battles to take place on. I'm curious about this. For what possible reason could it be limited? We know the realms on each side. Did they ask politely that the battles not be fought on their lands? And their enemies agreed? If so, Atamara sure is civilized.

Finton.

[LilWolf]

Trust me, if we COULD do that we would LOVE to do that. How do you expect the Eston army to march off a week's travel away into Tara when the second we do a Talerium army will march straight into Eston and loot and destory literally every region they can get their hands on, including cities like Hawthrone or Barac Lacirith?

I am honestly completely dumbfounded at how you think currently a big focus of our efforts can be something other than defending Eston lands? Did you not see the 30,000+CS army of Talerium, CE and Tara troops that marched through the heartland of Eston last week looting, destorying infrastructure, and raping and pillaging? What are we supposed to do, just ignore that?

Sign peace with Talerium instead of ignoring the proposals being made. There have been proposals, your ruler just hasn't reacted to any of them with much heart. There's one on the table as we speak that could change things considerably, but it's getting ignored. The looting only seems to continue because Eston wants it to.

[Bedwyr]

Its said that this war is a stalemate or slow going because of the limited borders for battles to take place on. I'm curious about this. For what possible reason could it be limited? We know the realms on each side. Did they ask politely that the battles not be fought on their lands? And their enemies agreed? If so, Atamara sure is civilized.

Finton.

Mostly because the sides on this war are both clear-cut and fuzzy.  Clear-cut because everyone can name the sides in a heartbeat, and fuzzy because there are cross-side friendships.  Suville and Tara like each other, and when the southern alliance was finalized terms were included to make it difficult to fight Tara.  Tara doesn't want any damage on their lands and is happy to keep fighting on the northern front.  Eston/Coria and Darka/Talerium have been discussed a lot, so no need to go over that again.

[De-Legro]

Not to mention that the entire island is a pincer attack which is supposed to be good for military strategy.

In Theory the pincer movement is great, and the few times it has been successful have seen great victories. The telling part comes from the creator themselves Sun Tzu, who basically said the manoeuvring should not be used as the enemy army would likely retreat and run before the move could be completed. In this case they would not have an avenue to escape resulting in what could be a ferocious last stand when they realise they have no chance.

It is the basis for a lot of more common military tactics though. The Pincer strategy is great, but is somewhat complex, takes a lot of manoeuvring etc, which results in plenty of things that can go wrong.

[Silverfire]

In Theory the pincer movement is great, and the few times it has been successful have seen great victories. The telling part comes from the creator themselves Sun Tzu, who basically said the manoeuvring should not be used as the enemy army would likely retreat and run before the move could be completed. In this case they would not have an avenue to escape resulting in what could be a ferocious last stand when they realise they have no chance.

It is the basis for a lot of more common military tactics though. The Pincer strategy is great, but is somewhat complex, takes a lot of manoeuvring etc, which results in plenty of things that can go wrong.

You make a very good point and I agree, it is not a very simple strategy in the least, but simple geographical terms of forcing the realms in the center of the continent to diver their forces outward in both directions while handling individual armies which are each fully assembled in strength and not separated should give them an advantage. That is the only reason I thought it odd that CE's managed to not only hold its line for so long but push forward. (Even considering the superb execution of their military, it should still be difficult for them to hold off a well coordinated assault)

[Bedwyr]

Caergoth and Suville are sending something between a third and half the forces they should be putting into the field.  The northern realms are more uncoordinated than anyone pre-war had ever dreamed of, and the General of the CE is good while leadership of the southern armies went through some major shifts and is erratic at best.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

So what does that mean in terms of AT. I do believe that at the opening stages of this war there were some parties that were celebrating something like "CE will finally be taken down!". So...how likely is that going to be anyway?

Oh, and yeah, I'm back to fighting for the Empire. Meh, you know, battling is fun.