The Current War

[Geronus]

From what I've experienced, Carelia's new leader seems extremely reasonable, and a nice guy actually, but this doesn't mean he isn't a snake worshiper, which is a shame as Saeculo doesn't dislike him personally. Not compared to the likes of Regulus and Sigurd.

I'm almost offended you didn't mention Laszlo in there. I thought we had a beautiful IC grudge going.

[Munro]

Nope.  Treaty was that Caergoth got Ser'quea when Carelia got a city, which happened, and Suville would get Wayburg when Carelia got another city

Indeed, and my point was you've had plenty of time to gain another city from the CE, you've had a much larger force than the Empire. You can't blame your allies for getting fed up of any lack of progress. Maybe I'm not being entirely fair to Carelia, but I am surprised you haven't done better, the start of the War and the acquisition of Skalk couldn't have gone better, yet since then it seems you have been on the back foot. 

I'm almost offended you didn't mention Laszlo in there. I thought we had a beautiful IC grudge going.

I apologise I was actually going to add him but I was in a rush and couldn't find the time to double check the spelling of his name, so didn't want to offend anyone. To be fair though, I can't say I have much against Laszlo, but for some reason, and even as a player I can't quite put my finger on it, Regulus and Sigurd just annoy Saeculo.

If we are being honest, Coria and Hammarsett will never live alongside each other peacefully. If this War doesn't end in total destruction for either realm, this will be the modern equivalent of North and South Korea!

[Bedwyr]

Indeed, and my point was you've had plenty of time to gain another city from the CE, you've had a much larger force than the Empire. You can't blame your allies for getting fed up of any lack of progress. Maybe I'm not being entirely fair to Carelia, but I am surprised you haven't done better, the start of the War and the acquisition of Skalk couldn't have gone better, yet since then it seems you have been on the back foot. 

(grins wryly) What reports have you been seeing?  Carelia's army by itself is no match for the CE, and Suville and Caergoth have contributed such small forces (generally 5-6K each, though Suville had a bigger one recently, that fight for a week tops and then take two-three weeks to refit) that the combined armies of Carelia, Caergoth, and Suville can't fight the full Cagilan army in the field.  As we managed to prove several times.

Without the allies present, Carelia could only nip at the edges of the Cagilan force while it burned everything in the western third of the realm to the ground.

Certainly, Carelia's made a poor showing in the war, but it's been considerably better than anything Caergoth or Suville have done.

[Geronus]

If we are being honest, Coria and Hammarsett will never live alongside each other peacefully. If this War doesn't end in total destruction for either realm, this will be the modern equivalent of North and South Korea!

Well, that's certainly how it has worked out. Hammarsett needs to expand if it's ever going to thrive. It didn't have to be at Coria's expense (nor will it necessarily end up that way), but events have conspired to make Coria the best opportunity by far.

[Silverfire]

Well, that's certainly how it has worked out. Hammarsett needs to expand if it's ever going to thrive. It didn't have to be at Coria's expense (nor will it necessarily end up that way), but events have conspired to make Coria the best opportunity by far.

This is quite simply not true, or at least heavily biased. Hammarsett has had opportunities to expand in the "other" direction but have chosen not to. More like, Hammarsett's choices of allies and pretty much overeager and bad leaders (in terms of diplomacy only) led to the current situation. Ceaselessly pissing off Coria hasn't done them any good. Now of course, Coria is probably your best and only opportunity to expand. Granted, I doubt it will succeed, because that requires the north to actually win this war before the south completely crumbles.

Not to mention Coria's war resources dwarfs that of Hammarsett, and Coria will win any 1v1 style fight against them. (IMO)

I'm almost offended you didn't mention Laszlo in there. I thought we had a beautiful IC grudge going.

I'm just wondering, but does the realm status board in Hammarsett have a saying: "Make enemies of Corian leaders" ? I mean, I'm seriously curious because this has been happening since Merlin was ruler and without fail each new ruler just doesn't get along with ours. haha 

[Gustav Kuriga]

This is quite simply not true, or at least heavily biased. Hammarsett has had opportunities to expand in the "other" direction but have chosen not to. More like, Hammarsett's choices of allies and pretty much overeager and bad leaders (in terms of diplomacy only) led to the current situation. Ceaselessly pissing off Coria hasn't done them any good. Now of course, Coria is probably your best and only opportunity to expand. Granted, I doubt it will succeed, because that requires the north to actually win this war before the south completely crumbles.

Not to mention Coria's war resources dwarfs that of Hammarsett, and Coria will win any 1v1 style fight against them. (IMO)
I'm just wondering, but does the realm status board in Hammarsett have a saying: "Make enemies of Corian leaders" ? I mean, I'm seriously curious because this has been happening since Merlin was ruler and without fail each new ruler just doesn't get along with ours. haha 

I'm sure this opinion is much less biased.

[Geronus]

This is quite simply not true, or at least heavily biased. Hammarsett has had opportunities to expand in the "other" direction but have chosen not to. More like, Hammarsett's choices of allies and pretty much overeager and bad leaders (in terms of diplomacy only) led to the current situation. Ceaselessly pissing off Coria hasn't done them any good. Now of course, Coria is probably your best and only opportunity to expand. Granted, I doubt it will succeed, because that requires the north to actually win this war before the south completely crumbles.

Not to mention Coria's war resources dwarfs that of Hammarsett, and Coria will win any 1v1 style fight against them. (IMO)
I'm just wondering, but does the realm status board in Hammarsett have a saying: "Make enemies of Corian leaders" ? I mean, I'm seriously curious because this has been happening since Merlin was ruler and without fail each new ruler just doesn't get along with ours. haha 

What exactly that I said isn't true? I'm sure if you reread what I wrote, you'll notice that it does not actually conflict with anything that you just said.

As for our relations, it's as much Coria's fault as ours. Your leaders are at least as good at annoying us as vice versa. I've never dealt with Merlin myself, but if he was anything like Saeculo then he would have gotten on Laszlo's nerves too. You seem to think that you're reasonable people. It does not come across that way when you deal with us. Quite the opposite in fact, you're extremely unreasonable.

[Indirik]

I'm just wondering, but does the realm status board in Hammarsett have a saying: "Make enemies of Corian leaders" ?

I think it's the national pastime of all northern realms: "Piss off Coria whenever possible."

But, honestly, you put yourself in the prime position to anger each and every one of your northern neighbors. I don't understand why you would be surprised at the outcome. (Except for Eston. I have no idea what you guys managed to slip into their water supply.)

[Perth]

I think it's the national pastime of all northern realms: "Piss off Coria whenever possible."

But, honestly, you put yourself in the prime position to anger each and every one of your northern neighbors. I don't understand why you would be surprised at the outcome. (Except for Eston. I have no idea what you guys managed to slip into their water supply.)

Really, it's just the national pastime of all northern realms to piss off everyone they can. The only reason they aren't all fighting each other is this weird unification in the common enemy of the CE.

[Geronus]

Really, it's just the national pastime of all northern realms to piss off everyone they can. The only reason they aren't all fighting each other is this weird unification in the common enemy of the CE.

It's because we can't ever have a decent war with each other without them sticking their noses in 

[Munro]

As for our relations, it's as much Coria's fault as ours. Your leaders are at least as good at annoying us as vice versa. I've never dealt with Merlin myself, but if he was anything like Saeculo then he would have gotten on Laszlo's nerves too.

I have to say I agree, there are two sides to every story and I have no doubt that Coria and Saeculo annoys Hammarsett just as much as vice versa. In fact, I'm glad, because I try bloody hard to annoy Hammarsett, Saeculo hates them, he wants them destroyed. Ask his allies

Whenever he has dealt with the North, there has been few occasions were he has included Hammarsett. There was a phase were he refused to recognise their existence and sovereignty, seeing them more as a terrorist realm. As an IC decision I've had my Servants burn any letter with a Hammard seal before delivering it to me.

 It's a shame because as a player, I wanted to see more smaller realms, and I wanted an end to the dominance of some of the bigger ones such as the CE. Yet all this War has done to my character is bring him closer to the members of the Central Alliance and determined to destroy Hammarsett.

Looking at it from a player perspective I honestly can't believe the beef the North has with Coria. When I say the North I mean BoM and Darka because we don't have much against MI.

We were told the reason for War was to attack the CE. You've done everything but this, and as a character Saeculo gave you direct access to the CE. Just because the terrain wasn't optimal, that's hardly the fault of Coria. Not only this, but you had the opportunity to attack the CE and then retreat back through Coria and you knew you wouldn't be followed by the CE as they were unable to use our lands to attack you. Our agreement was much more favourable to the North than it was to our own allies, and personally I'm glad you broke it, as it leaves the CE safer or with the chance to at least fight back.

Eston is a completely different kettle of fish, and Saeculo really likes Kerwin, whether this is to the detriment of Coria shall remain to be seen, but after this War is over, I can't see either realm being very bitter about the other. Which is fortunate as I'd much rather burn Darka or BoM to the ground than Eston... haha  But seriously, there seems to be a mutual respect between Coria and Eston which is why we get on well, whereas I've always felt that Kostaja and Sordnaz have never been the most sincere. Saeculo trusts Kerwin whereas he doesn't the others and perhaps this has an influence on how Coria is seen by the North.

I don't pretend that Coria is an angel, we've used certain things to our advantage. But during the period in which we were neutral, we were completely neutral and I see the declarations against us more as the North's frustration at the lack of success in the current War.

[Munro]

(Except for Eston. I have no idea what you guys managed to slip into their water supply.)

Ahhhh, the benefits of sharing the Great Lake with Eston...means you can slip almost anything into their water supply

[Geronus]

I don't pretend that Coria is an angel, we've used certain things to our advantage. But during the period in which we were neutral, we were completely neutral and I see the declarations against us more as the North's frustration at the lack of success in the current War.

That's partially true, but there are other reasons. Like the fact that Laszlo is convinced Coria was going to attack Hammarsett in the end no matter what. And the fact that we can't get at Tara without going through Coria. And the fact that in Laszlo's view you violated your neutrality when you attacked Darkan and Barony troops on Taran soil. There are lots of reasons in fact. It was not out of pure pique.

[Munro]

That's partially true, but there are other reasons. Like the fact that Laszlo is convinced Coria was going to attack Hammarsett in the end no matter what.

That's a vicious circle then, because we considered attacking you because we believed you were going to attack us in order to expand and thrive. That and you can't seem to control your nobles, who insisted on taking a stroll in Corian lands every few months or so. You broke the peace agreement first. When you started threatening War with Coria when we were going to travel down South, Saeculo made it perfectly clear that he would no longer be so gracious if your nobles continued to enter our lands....which they did!

And the fact that we can't get at Tara without going through Coria.

You've now agreed not to attack Tara... This can't have been that important.

And the fact that in Laszlo's view you violated your neutrality when you attacked Darkan and Barony troops on Taran soil. There are lots of reasons in fact. It was not out of pure pique.

They broke Corian neutrality and the terms of our peace agreement. It was made specifically clear that the Northern regions of Coria were out of bounds. Whilst they deny it IC, I personally believe they knew this quite well and were testing Coria. I wasn't going to allow them to not only break the peace agreement, but then attack our ally. So Corian troops defended Tara, after the North betrayed their own word and not for the first time. Again, the North started the aggression first.

Fair point though, from your characters point of view, those reasons you gave were valid. In the same way that I was able to respond with why my character would believe them to be unfair reasons. At the end of the day, it shows exactly why we are at War

[Silverfire]

I think it is certainly a fair point that pretty much my statements as well as those from the other side are both tainted by IC biases at times. (if not all the time).

Although I do find it extremely odd from a player's point of view as to how it is exactly that the north fights Coria specifically so much.

From my somewhat biased point of view, I would say that Merlin was a lot less antagonistic with Hammarsett specifically than Saeculo likely is after reading his more recent posts. However, I do believe that Darka and BoM certainly got pissed off enough from Merlin from what I can tell anyway. He wasn't trying to, because Merlin actually sought peace, but apparently we just didn't think alike.

As to the water supply, you'll have to ask the dockworkers at Barad Falas....Although, they're sworn to its Duke not some snooper who is asking questions.