The Current War

[Sacha]

Although I do find it extremely odd from a player's point of view as to how it is exactly that the north fights Coria specifically so much.

Simple. You're in the way

[Velax]

I've had my Servants burn any letter with a Hammard seal before delivering it to me.

You have them burn it before delivering it to you? That's a bit odd. "Here, my lord, this pile of ashes came for you today."

[Perth]

Eston is a completely different kettle of fish, and Saeculo really likes Kerwin, whether this is to the detriment of Coria shall remain to be seen, but after this War is over, I can't see either realm being very bitter about the other. Which is fortunate as I'd much rather burn Darka or BoM to the ground than Eston... haha  But seriously, there seems to be a mutual respect between Coria and Eston which is why we get on well, whereas I've always felt that Kostaja and Sordnaz have never been the most sincere. Saeculo trusts Kerwin whereas he doesn't the others and perhaps this has an influence on how Coria is seen by the North.

I'm not really sure why Eston and Coria started getting along so well and why they've been able to maintain that relationship throughout this conflict. Partly, I think it was due to Kerwin's desire to heal the damage done by his predecessor when he took the throne. However, I think most of it has to do with the fact that Eston and Coria are actually very similar. They're central realms that are surrounded on all sides by potential enemies who want to be very careful about their diplomatic hand and how they play it because it could end them up in a lot of hurt.

Everyone complained about Eston signing peace with Coria because the North was "beating" Coria when it was signed, but truth of the matter it that sure the tide of the war may have changed soon after Kerwin took office, but this was in large part due to his own diplomatic maneuvering, apologies for his predecessor and relationship building. But for the period of time prior to that CE and Taran armies had been marauding through Eston heartland burning and pillaging everything. Eston and Coria both signed peace and their alliances accused them of being "soft" but truth is Eston and Coria are the only two realms (along with Carelia) to actually have to pay any price in this war so far. Everyone else is just having fun sending their armies off on long two week sorties. I think Eston and Coria have uniquely different views from everyone else on the current conflict.

That isn't to say however, that Eston's solidarity isn't with the North. Eston wants the CE damaged more than anything, and while Kerwin definitely tried to dissuade another war with Coria, and won't participate in it, he also saw that something had to happen to change the course of the war, because the path the North was on wasn't going anywhere unless Darka would attack Talerium... and they wouldn't.

[Silverfire]

because the path the North was on wasn't going anywhere unless Darka would attack Talerium... and they wouldn't.

I love how this quote so easily paints the picture of differences between modern times and olden times. Nowadays when a nation "won't" do something to another nation due to diplomacy, they just send in their black ops and spies to do the jobs, on stealth missions and such. I mean if it wasn't for all of the places that the superpowers of the world "won't" fight in, and actually do I'm sure our military would get bored.

I'm not really sure why Eston and Coria started getting along so well and why they've been able to maintain that relationship throughout this conflict.

Has he seriously not noticed his secretary wearing a sage's hat that has a gold lion on it?

[Perth]

Has he seriously not noticed his secretary wearing a sage's hat that has a gold lion on it?

Wait, what? Who and who's secretary?

[Silverfire]

Wait, what? Who and who's secretary?

King of Eston of course. Brainwashing was the easiest solution for peace, so we just sent our best magicker to get the job done. Seems to have worked nicely of course. Posing as the King's scribe seems to have worked wonders for his credibility.

[Indirik]

I think it is certainly a fair point that pretty much my statements as well as those from the other side are both tainted by IC biases at times. (if not all the time).

Yeah, well, we all are. I don't think anyone is capable of discussing this with complete neutrality.

Although I do find it extremely odd from a player's point of view as to how it is exactly that the north fights Coria specifically so much.

You keep getting in our way! Grr... 

They broke Corian neutrality and the terms of our peace agreement. It was made specifically clear that the Northern regions of Coria were out of bounds. Whilst they deny it IC, I personally believe they knew this quite well and were testing Coria. I wasn't going to allow them to not only break the peace agreement, but then attack our ally. So Corian troops defended Tara, after the North betrayed their own word and not for the first time. Again, the North started the aggression first.

This is the first time I've ever heard any such condition on the agreement Darka had with Tara. From what I was told, the agreement was that the north could use Corian regions to attack CE, but not Tara, unless Tara attacked first. And Tara did attack, going against their word they gave at the beginning of the conflict that they wouldn't. Which then freed up the north to attack Tara through Coria. (Plus Coria's blatant interference in the war by sending troops to help Tara in the war really torqued off a few people.) I've never heard any conditions on "you can use these regions, but not these".

[Indirik]

You have them burn it before delivering it to you? That's a bit odd. "Here, my lord, this pile of ashes came for you today."

He he he...  That's a pretty cool visual... The scribe announcing correspondence from Hammarsett as he dumps the ashes into the ash bucket by the fireplace: "Another letter from Hammarsett, m'Lord." *dump*

[Indirik]

That isn't to say however, that Eston's solidarity isn't with the North. Eston wants the CE damaged more than anything, and while Kerwin definitely tried to dissuade another war with Coria, and won't participate in it, he also saw that something had to happen to change the course of the war, because the path the North was on wasn't going anywhere unless Darka would attack Talerium... and they wouldn't.

Unfortunately, Eston chose a course in the war that greatly increased the likelihood of CE winning. And you can't entirely blame Darka for stalling the war. Eston *knew* that Darka wouldn't attack Talerium, yet still chose to sign a treaty with Coria that specifically excluded any other course. You had to know that this would piss off everyone.

[Carna]

Eston chooses not to attack Coria. Darka chooses not to attack Talerium. The southeast choose not to attack Tara.  The north do little beyond marching south, looting and marching north. I may not be in any of the CA realms anymore, but my gold would be on them to win not because of any particular realm fighting against them, but the decisions of all the realms fighting them. Not saying that the north should go in and colonize Eaglin or that it'd be wise for Carelia's one functioning mini-army to cut through Tara's border, but the culmination of these decisions means CE and CE's allies arn't suffering sustained damage while the likes of Carelia are getting a pounding.

I agree with Perth. Only three realms have suffered any real harm so far, and of them I'd accuse Eston and Coria of whining if they thought they had it even close to as bad as Carelia. The north marches, but does the north think the central alliance trembles with fear when they do? Some peasants and troops killed, gold robbed, food burned and then they have a long trip back to refit and won't be seen again for a couple of weeks at least. A few courtiers and its like they've never been. CE only shares a direct border with Carelia (until Cantril is taken) and they're trashing Carelia. Their allies are virtually untouched despite minor raids. Frankly, I'm shocked. If the north can march such massive armies to hear them proudly talk about it, why can't they colonize Tucha or Eaglin? Lack of nobles? Between the lot of them, they could each spare a couple. Enough to take a city and a couple of regions. Their job? Hold it. Deny the CA the incomes and food, and add it to your side for lasting damage. How long has this war been going on and I don't think this has been so much as attempted. Suville and Caergoth are similar stories. Direct attacks on Tara aside, neither have sent much in the way of help to Carelia so rather than taking regions from CE, this war has actually given them region(s).

If I didn't know better, I'd name this some devious plot by CE nobles to expand and reinforce their power. Not out of the question, as any who know CE properly will agree. Certainly if others planned or started this war, they'd have made plans to actually win it?

I'm not speachless. Just bewildered at the lack of intent by CE's enemies to actually take away CE's advantages.

Finton.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Another explanation could be that the CE group is actually more competent than some of their enemies would like to give them credit for.

[Munro]

I've never heard any conditions on "you can use these regions, but not these".

Unless your Character is called Kerwin, Sordnaz or Kostaja ...then you wouldn't have necessarily heard it. Saying that, I'm really surprised you haven't, as this was made crystal clear throughout the agreement. I didn't want the North eating up the small amount of food Coria manages to produce, not to mention the "accidental" battles which occured at least twice when either BoM or Darka attacked Corian troops within Corian territory when we were supposed to be at peace. That really hacked off at least the Corian military council. It's not hard to order your troops to not be aggressive when in neutral lands.

In regards to the Tara thing, you started marching through without even mentioning it to any Corian. Talk about taking our neutrality for granted. Our allies respected the peace we made with the North, didn't use our lands and didn't attack our nobles. The North was a shambles when it came to upholding their part of the agreement. Hammard troops entered Corian lands on no less than five occasions when they were unwelcome, and Darka and BoM actually attacked Corian nobles when they were inside Coria!

As we are trying to be an honourable realm, I didn't want to break the peace, so I'm glad the North did, because it just confirmed that you guys couldn't be trusted which is what Saeculo always suspected. (When I refer to the North, I make an exception with Eston). Let's be fair though, we weren't a match made in heaven and Coria has always been rooting for the Empire and her allies.

There have been hiccups within the Central Alliance, but the difference is: Coria, Talerium, Tara and CE actually like one another, we're friends because that's been the traditional history of our realms, or because we were originally CE colonies.  If one leader is pessimistic the others 'cheer' them up and try and aid the situation and one another, both militarily and morally.

The Northern and Southern realms have never had the kind of relationship the CA enjoys. The CA is used to fighting Wars with one another, our nobles like one another and importantly our leaders know one another well and have no resentment.

In comparison, the North have a common enemy which has brought them together, which is not the same as fighting for one another as friends. Defenders always have more reason to keep up the fight than those attacking, especially when things start going badly.
 

[Indirik]

Unless your Character is called Kerwin, Sordnaz or Kostaja ...then you wouldn't have necessarily heard it. Saying that, I'm really surprised you haven't, as this was made crystal clear throughout the agreement. I didn't want the North eating up the small amount of food Coria manages to produce, not to mention the "accidental" battles which occured at least twice when either BoM or Darka attacked Corian troops within Corian territory when we were supposed to be at peace. That really hacked off at least the Corian military council. It's not hard to order your troops to not be aggressive when in neutral lands.

Hard to order? Not at all. And it was ordered. Doesn't mean everyone follows orders. I always wondered, though, why the peace treaty wasn't officially declared, and everything was left at neutral. That's just begging for incidents.

Anyway, what was the part of the agreement that was supposed to declare certain lands off limits?

In regards to the Tara thing, you started marching through without even mentioning it to any Corian. Talk about taking our neutrality for granted. Our allies respected the peace we made with the North, didn't use our lands and didn't attack our nobles. The North was a shambles when it came to upholding their part of the agreement. Hammard troops entered Corian lands on no less than five occasions when they were unwelcome, and Darka and BoM actually attacked Corian nobles when they were inside Coria!

As we are trying to be an honourable realm, I didn't want to break the peace, so I'm glad the North did, because it just confirmed that you guys couldn't be trusted which is what Saeculo always suspected. (When I refer to the North, I make an exception with Eston). Let's be fair though, we weren't a match made in heaven and Coria has always been rooting for the Empire and her allies.

I really have no idea what the Hammarpeople were doing. If they violated the agreement on their part, you'll have to get an explanation from them. All I know is what Darka did. From our point of view, we didn't break the agreement. (If you discount the two accidental battles.) From what I know of the agreement, once Tara entered Eston lands, that constitutes Tara attacking, and opened up Corian lands for attacks on Tara. The agreement did not require any notification. We always assumed that if Coria ever saw our armies, they'd just tell CE/Tara we were coming anyway. So why give them any more warning?

The Northern and Southern realms have never had the kind of relationship the CA enjoys. The CA is used to fighting Wars with one another, our nobles like one another and importantly our leaders know one another well and have no resentment.

That is definitely a huge advantage the CE bloc has, a long history of working together. That and they don't need a coalition to be able to put together a huge army. CE and Tara individually can field armies that the northern/southern realms have to put together multiple realms to match.

[Perth]

Unfortunately, Eston chose a course in the war that greatly increased the likelihood of CE winning. And you can't entirely blame Darka for stalling the war. Eston *knew* that Darka wouldn't attack Talerium, yet still chose to sign a treaty with Coria that specifically excluded any other course. You had to know that this would piss off everyone.

Ugh. Not this again. How all the Darkans somehow think that Darka refusing to attack Talerium so that their own realm won't come under any fire but at the same time accusing Eston of being weak or stupid for doing the exact same thing is really annoying.

The worst part is that Darka acts like walking through Coria is somehow the easiest and quickest way to hurt the CE, when by doing so we have walk through three realms and around a huge pile of mountains. While if Darka would attack ONE (contested) Talerium region we would on the doorstep of Eaglin, putting pressure on the city, Darka with Eston help could probably sack the city, and then both CE and Tara troops would be tied up in northern CE, fighting on CE soil, and giving direct relief to Carelia. Attacking Coria and northern Tara does absolutely none of these things.

[Perth]

If the north can march such massive armies to hear them proudly talk about it, why can't they colonize Tucha or Eaglin? Lack of nobles? Between the lot of them, they could each spare a couple. Enough to take a city and a couple of regions. Their job? Hold it. Deny the CA the incomes and food, and add it to your side for lasting damage. How long has this war been going on and I don't think this has been so much as attempted.

Kerwin was begging for this to happen since before he signed peace with Coria. Indeed it was his primary MO in signing peace Coria. Get to the CE. Get to the CE. Darka utterly refused to attack Talerium, despite the fact that they could crush them, and thus it hasn't happened. Darka insists on marching days and weeks away to attack Coria and Tara.