The Current War

[Indirik]

And those darn Estons still can't see that we need to take out Coria!

If CE/Tara directly attacks Darka, then the Talerium border may be the only thing that lets Darka hold them off. Assuming Talerium honors the border as strongly as Darka did.

But seriously, it is *so* annoying having to march all the way over to Hammsrsett lands to fight someone.

And BTW: Hello Tucha!

[Bedwyr]

And those darn Estons still can't see that we need to take out Coria!

If CE/Tara directly attacks Darka, then the Talerium border may be the only thing that lets Darka hold them off. Assuming Talerium honors the border as strongly as Darka did.

Even if Talerium did, which I think highly unlikely...So what?  If this war falls apart, then the CE-bloc can roll over Talerium easily enough if they get antsy.  The south will be broken, the north will at best be highly limited, and there won't be anyone with enough strength to hold them off (leaving aside Darka's legendary gold reserves, because I don't have the faintest idea 1. how big they are and 2. how that much gold will change things).

[Lavigna]

Darka can't rely on anyone. Of course no one is whining about it because this is what happens when you are a mercenary which means no real friends.

Darka however always had a code of honor with Talerium and a long friendship with Eston (in the past mostly,much has changed since then). Whether Darka likes Talerium or not it never broke it's alliance with it and viceversa. Sometimes in such honor codes the trust is highly more valuable than an alliance.

No one says Talerium will cover Darka's butt by defending it but they have the guts for example to not let anyone use their lands to attack Darka.As Darka did in this war of course and never violated that agreement.

I would like to see Cagilan either !@#$ting on Talerium's demand for example to enter Darka or travel through those forsaken mountains as Darka did so far to reach them.

[Indirik]

Even if Talerium did, which I think highly unlikely...So what?  If this war falls apart, then the CE-bloc can roll over Talerium easily enough if they get antsy.

CE could indeed roll over Talerium if they wanted to, just as Darka could have crushed Talerium if it had wanted to. If we had, then this war may have taken a very different course. Or it could have gone much worse for the north. Who knows? The point is, that Darka took as much, or more, flak over the border agreement with Talerium as Eston did for their treaties with Coria. I would hope that would mean something to Talerium. And if CE has to attack Talerium to get to Darka, then at least they will have lost one steadfast ally.

The south will be broken, the north will at best be highly limited, and there won't be anyone with enough strength to hold them off

You're probably right.

[Dante Silverfire]

Me? I think that the rulers of Atamara secretly support CE's continued rulership of the continent. Eston won't attack Coria (or vice versa) and Darka won't attack Talerium (or vice versa). I haven't paid too much attention to the lakeside war, so I can't say that the northern realms up there are failing to push, but what do they hope to do, march through the realm that was specifically built to provide a buffer to CE? If you think about it, Coria's nothing but a long chokepoint that any northern army will have to fight their way through.

Yes! The plan is working...No one realizes the truth. Yes, the rulers of Atamara have a secret plan, however it is really to support Coria's continued rulership of the continent. The whole idea was to make it look like we are simply a buffer realm, but really every ruler knows each government member of Coria is just sitting on 100,000 gold pieces waiting for the fun to really start...

[Gustav Kuriga]

And those darn Estons still can't see that we need to take out Coria!

If CE/Tara directly attacks Darka, then the Talerium border may be the only thing that lets Darka hold them off. Assuming Talerium honors the border as strongly as Darka did.

But seriously, it is *so* annoying having to march all the way over to Hammsrsett lands to fight someone.

And BTW: Hello Tucha!

I proposed marching through Belegmon and either attacking Barad Falas or looting through the rurals and mountains back to Menedor. That was shot down.

[Jens Namtrah]

And yet our King still can't see that we need to take out Talerium...

So take out your King...

[Revan]

Oh by the way: You're looking pretty smart right now. 

Edit: Also richer, if you did in fact place money on it.

OH. I guess I'm the soothsayer! Seriously though, never trust a Sugothian

As for the rest of the chatter, I think it's hilarious that people still reference Magna Serpænsism. I can't believe Caergoth's crusade helped turn it into the bogeyman of the entire continent - and now the Way of the Hammer is the one faith making all the running up the eastern side of Atamara and giving birth to quaint little theocracies but no-one is stomping them into the floor -_-  It's beyond parody really. Mostly everyone and everything that made Magna Serpænsism what it was is dead. The founder even got killed in the war with Cagil. All that's left is a hollowed out shell that has no bearing on anything whatsoever.

Also, what's this about Abington being hammered to pieces? Abington in her prime was more than a match for anything that came at her. I don't know what the hell was going on in the weeks immediately prior to her collapse, but if Abington could turf out seven realms trying to found Kybcyell in Wayburg, she could have weathered the storm of the Cagilan Empire coming along. I just wish I'd got my !@#$ together, slapped down some old moaners, got over our bizarre rivalry with RedSpan and signed an alliance with Gauihu rather than prevaricated over getting involved in that big war. Should've just thrown caution to the wind and got Tara before they got us, but hey ho.

Anyway, to my mind, that's when the balance of power in Atamara failed catastrophically and people started doing silly !@#$ like moving their realm hundreds of miles from their original founding place in powergaming nonsense pacts and all the rest. I love how everyone on the continent quite happily decimated every realm that had never, ever really been on the same page as Cagil after that and now you hear moans about the state of Atamara. No point moaning about it now though, just have to deal with it. Personally I hope Carelia gets peace with Cagil and goes and tears the south a new one.

In fact, what I was really hoping for was for Carelia to make some agreement to turf over Wayburg to Suville and begin a collective effort to do in Caergoth. I think life would be much more interesting with 'Abington' back in the picture. Maybe even the Ash Sea Islands after that. But then, I would say that ;-)

[Perth]

And those darn Estons still can't see that we need to take out Coria!

I proposed marching through Belegmon and either attacking Barad Falas or looting through the rurals and mountains back to Menedor. That was shot down.

I don't understand how you people even think this is feasible when we are engaged in a perpetual effort to keep a Talerium/Cagilan army from marching through Nazamroth to either 1) burn our heartlands to the ground or 2) attempt to sack Barad Falas.

You REALLY don't think the most logical and feasible course of action for the Northern Alliance is to have Darka stop marching huge distances to fight one battle then march back and instead have them easily crush Talerium and turn the war in our favor?

[JPierreD]

I don't understand how you people even think this is feasible when we are engaged in a perpetual effort to keep a Talerium/Cagilan army from marching through Nazamroth to either 1) burn our heartlands to the ground or 2) attempt to sack Barad Falas.

You REALLY don't think the most logical and feasible course of action for the Northern Alliance is to have Darka stop marching huge distances to fight one battle then march back and instead have them easily crush Talerium and turn the war in our favor?

Would you fight Coria should they do that?

[Geronus]

I don't understand how you people even think this is feasible when we are engaged in a perpetual effort to keep a Talerium/Cagilan army from marching through Nazamroth to either 1) burn our heartlands to the ground or 2) attempt to sack Barad Falas.

You REALLY don't think the most logical and feasible course of action for the Northern Alliance is to have Darka stop marching huge distances to fight one battle then march back and instead have them easily crush Talerium and turn the war in our favor?

I'm all for this, but honestly I don't know if it would turn things in our favor or not. I think it would take the pressure of off Carelia as the Empire would probably have to divert a lot of their strength over to propping up Talerium, but with Carelia already distracted by Suville I don't know how much good this really does us...

[Dante Silverfire]

Would you fight Coria should they do that?

If I had to guess, they probably would. However, anyone who honestly believes that the best way to win the war in the north is to attack and attempt to destroy Coria is sadly mistaken.

Coria has mountain regions, and to get to CE even using Corian lands you have to go through the mountains. That is probably the easiest route to defend from CE's perspective possible. In addition, Coria is a highly fortified realm. We are small, but you won't be able to sack Barad Falas without pretty much the entirety of the northern armies at your disposal. (And don't talk about how you have before, because that was a fluke with the Duke not in the city). With a duke standing guard it is not an easy task, especially because we can scout you out way in advance. In other words, any attacks on Coria ultimately will never allow you to attack CE.

Now, Talerium is mostly rural regions and a straight run to the heartland of CE's regions. However, if they are off limits CE is fully protected from any attacks.

However, it is likely too late for any of that to matter. If Darka had attacked Talerium at the beginning of the war, or soon after Coria was first forced out of the conflict it may have won the war. Now, it likely would only ruin Darka Talerium relations wihtout any benefit. This war is tipping already, and is slowly moving towards CE's alliance winning.

[Revan]

Something I don't understand: a former King of Falasan is the current Duke of Barad Gardor. Surely that's something that could be exploited if Coria is proving so troublesome an obstacle?

[Indirik]

I don't understand how you people even think this is feasible when we are engaged in a perpetual effort to keep a Talerium/Cagilan army from marching through Nazamroth to either 1) burn our heartlands to the ground or 2) attempt to sack Barad Falas.

I think the most feasible think to have done was to have burned down Barad Falas and destroyed Coria when we were sitting in their capital for an entire week, while Eston went behind everyone's back and signed a worse-than-useless treaty with Coria. The entire current situation in the east with Hammarsett never would have happened if we had done that.

But we've already been through that before.

You REALLY don't think the most logical and feasible course of action for the Northern Alliance is to have Darka stop marching huge distances to fight one battle then march back and instead have them easily crush Talerium and turn the war in our favor?

If Darka had mustered a huge army, along with perhaps the Barony and a significant portion of Eston, and run straight for Cagil and sacked the crap out of it, we could have made significant progress in the war. A little bid of good timing with Carelia and it could have been done. Talerium's armies have always been small and mostly an annoyance, rather than a significant fighting force. My character even proposed such a move in-game, more than once. Unfortunately, diplomacy gets in the way.

Kinda like Eston's diplomacy with Coria got in the way, too.

[Perth]

I think the most feasible think to have done was to have burned down Barad Falas and destroyed Coria when we were sitting in their capital for an entire week, while Eston went behind everyone's back and signed a worse-than-useless treaty with Coria. The entire current situation in the east with Hammarsett never would have happened if we had done that.

What would this have really achieved? What? Coria would be in shambles and the Northern Alliance would STILL have to either march the long way through Tara just to reach the Cagilan Empire, where no doubt Cagilan and Taran armies would have been met. Or we would have to march over the mountains, something we could still do now but don't, obviously, because it doesn't work. How is destroying Coria IN ANY WAY a better strategy than neutralizing Talerium?

It just isn't. The Cagilan Empire is two rural regions away from Darkan borders. ONE rural region seperates Eston and Darka from the Cagilan Empire. Two rural regions away from Eston and Darka borders is Cagilan's northernmost city. Yet, because Darka insists on marching a whole week over to fight the enemy in Coria/Hammarsett, we haven't even come close to even sacking Eaglin.

I just really fail to see how Eston's relationship with Coria is even relatively on the same scale as Darka refusing to fight Talerium. The strategic gains we would get from each are simply not even close to equal.