Author Topic: The War  (Read 13952 times)

Chenier

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Re: The War
« Reply #255: August 11, 2018, 03:08:42 AM »
Sure. There was no choice. The hatred towards Vix in the north is large enough. What HM does beyond warring Perdan is irrelevant cause had Vix not aided, they'd be next no matter what.

You flipped, fine, but can you please stop making it sound like you flipped for the betterment of Vix or FG?  :o

You want Perdan dead, fine, but others not agreeing with that and choosing their allies is not a bad decision. Maybe in terms of lands...but there are so many other factors at play.

Never said it was for the bettermer of Vix or Fallangard. Nor did I say it was a bad decision for Vix to oppose us.

It was, however, a bad decision for Fallangard to do so. They alienate a realm that cared for them in favor of a realm that treated them like dirt. Meanwhile, they get the worst of the pressure from the war effort, and may very well die. In the end, their sacrifice will be pointless, it'll have been but a speed bump that gives the North an extra city to fund the war against Vix and Perdan, which it wouldn't have had if they'd at least have stayed neutral.

By attacking and looting Highmarch, they made all the worst decisions, regardless of their motivations, because they'll fail at everything. They end up with no realm, no friends, and no accomplishments, all while helping those they chose to oppose by handing them more regions.

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Re: The War
« Reply #256: August 11, 2018, 09:05:06 AM »
Except FG is not treated like dirt and clearly does not feel as such, they will end up with friends unlike HM and they did not see HM as caring for them.
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Jored

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Re: The War
« Reply #257: August 11, 2018, 10:57:33 AM »
Except FG is not treated like dirt and clearly does not feel as such, they will end up with friends unlike HM and they did not see HM as caring for them.

I am gonna have to polity disagree with this statement. Highmarch has more friends now than it had during its alliance with the South. Vix always hated the fact that Higmarch was draining their funds, at one point they completely stopped giving funds to its defense and even went as far as to withdraw troops to show Highmarch that it was dependent on them for its survival. Perdan broke treaties with Highmarch in regards to Meuse/Mullhouse and always just went back to the Perdan Mines issue when asked about it. (Even though the Perdan Mines issue goes back a long way, and has a lot of History behind it)

Lets not even talk about the Alara/Minas Nova vs Perloane/Vix debacle going on. Highmarch did warn Alara that this was coming long before we left the Southern Alliance.

As for Fallangard, there was never any intent to attack them or declare war until they started looting Highmarch lands. This is the saddest thing about this war, as i would say that no one in Highmarch wants to fight Fallangard, they where the only ones not planning to sell out Highmarch during the negotiations with the north. You should really have been more careful with your backdoor dealings in regards to putting Highmarch on the block to save your own necks. You left Highmarch no choice but to flip. There was no way Highmarch could have survived with the entire South and North turning on them to get the territories, this way Highmarch has a chance to survive , where before it had none.

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Re: The War
« Reply #258: August 11, 2018, 11:57:35 AM »
Except that the south would not sell out HM and in fact stated multiple times any peace would have to be acceptable to HM as well.

Perdan did not break treaties with HM (I know cause I was there when the matter was handled when Arthur first flipped Perdan Duchy) although I can understand how HM was not happy. And the history of Perdan Mines was simple. When Arthur agreed to bring back Perdan Duchy first time (and became King after that) the Lord of Perdan Mines refused to return with him. Meuse Mullhouse fall in the same category but Perdan allowed use of the regions...sort of, as HM lacked funds and had nobles. In reality Arthur asked the regions back multiple times but HM kept stalling the matter, holding on to them (again I know cause I helped in the stalling of it).

And FG felt HM betraying them and acted accordingly. They did not wish to betray their allies. Not sure why that's considered so wrong and foolish.
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Chenier

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Re: The War
« Reply #259: August 11, 2018, 01:36:41 PM »
You failed at getting peace with the North now, what makes you think you would have done better before? Mathias was at it for months. White peace was impossible. And with the SA being stupid, Highmarch was [email protected]#$ed by the status quo. To keep at the war, with Vix constantly withholding troops and funding and being fickle asses, and the deep south no longer contributing squat... Highmarch would have fallen. Because everyone in the SA decided they had other priorities. We were bled out and left on our own.

We could have gone the Fallangard path of pursuing a senseless death. Or we could have sacrificed ourselves to grant the rest of SA peace, maybe. But by then, we were just sick of all of SA's [email protected]#$.

Flipping was the best choice we could have made. And we did it at the best moment we could have.

As for Vix's treatment of Fallangard, yea... were you not there, or what? I've had Fallangard players tell me the same. About Scio being given back. About their slowness before attacking us. They were totally taken for granted and not treated with respect. Just as Vix was doing with us before.

Graeth

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Re: The War
« Reply #260: August 11, 2018, 02:54:38 PM »
To keep at the war, with Vix constantly withholding troops and funding and being fickle asses, and the deep south no longer contributing squat... Highmarch would have fallen. Because everyone in the SA decided they had other priorities. We were bled out and left on our own.

Keep the propaganda in character. Vix never withheld troops and throughout my rule we tried multiple times to send money but no one in Highmarch would take the responsibility of receiving it.
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Chenier

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Re: The War
« Reply #261: August 11, 2018, 08:54:24 PM »
Keep the propaganda in character. Vix never withheld troops and throughout my rule we tried multiple times to send money but no one in Highmarch would take the responsibility of receiving it.

The propaganda is when Mathias talks about the vixen troops going to Perdan instead of Highmarch. IC he's treat it as a form of treason and abandonment even if OOC I get it and considered it justified. But Vix *did* withhold troops. Evora was lost due to Zolan, upon taking command of the vixen troops freshly arriving in Akesh Temple, decided to withdraw the army for no reason, without letting anyone know. Maybe you didn't know. When we pressed about the issue, most vixens didn't seem to understand or know what was going on. Just because you didn't know, or more likely you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen. And if you want to pass that off as an "accident", it was exactly when Zolan was openly talking about withholding resources to Highmarch.

As for funds, Mathias never rejected funds. "No one in Highmarch" is untrue. It was offered to Jaemes, allegedly, who later ditched Highmarch for Vix anyways, and who never told anyone he was offered gold, and offered no satisfactory explanation for refusing the gold. Actually, I think he did give an explanation that largely put into doubt Vix's allegation. Jarin was known to be inactive by all. Regardless, gold had almost always transited through Mathias. There was no reason to stop doing so, and especially no legitimate argument about Highmarch being at fault when Vix was the one who decided to screw the traditional channels and try new middle-men. Furthermore, the most you could argue is that you "offered", not that you "tried". There's no fail rate in transferring gold. You go to the capital, and you send it. Done done, easy peasy.

Vix didn't try to give money to Highmarch, what it did was screw the traditional channels and "offer" it to people not responsible for the army's funding, to then use the lack of answers as justification. Daedalus, Archibald, Eros... they had all given gold through Mathias.

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Re: The War
« Reply #262: August 12, 2018, 12:50:03 AM »
Evora was lost due to Zolan, upon taking command of the vixen troops freshly arriving in Akesh Temple, decided to withdraw the army for no reason, without letting anyone know.


Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? That's not like him at all. *sarcasm*
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Chenier

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Re: The War
« Reply #263: August 12, 2018, 01:03:54 AM »

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? That's not like him at all. *sarcasm*

ikr?

Graeth

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Re: The War
« Reply #264: August 12, 2018, 01:32:59 AM »
Vix didn't try to give money to Highmarch, what it did was screw the traditional channels and "offer" it to people not responsible for the army's funding, to then use the lack of answers as justification. Daedalus, Archibald, Eros... they had all given gold through Mathias.

It was offered to the ruler and treasurer. I certainly wasn't gonna offer it to the character that was trash talking Vix in all the alliance channels.

Also, I did not know about the Akesh temple thing. I thought that when Zolan took over we had already been in the field with no refit for several weeks running.
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Chenier

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Re: The War
« Reply #265: August 12, 2018, 02:32:07 AM »
Of course not, don't offer support to the guy that complains support was cut, wouldn't w ant to prove him wrong.  ::)

Graeth

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Re: The War
« Reply #266: August 12, 2018, 04:21:57 AM »
Prop up an anti-Vix Eros with Vix's funds? No way pal!
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Zakky

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Re: The War
« Reply #267: August 12, 2018, 06:34:47 AM »
Never fund Chenier. Let him work with what he has  ::)

Chenier

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Re: The War
« Reply #268: August 12, 2018, 01:11:45 PM »
I got nicer sponsors now.  8)

feyeleanor

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Re: The War
« Reply #269: August 12, 2018, 08:43:02 PM »
Evora was lost due to Zolan, upon taking command of the vixen troops freshly arriving in Akesh Temple, decided to withdraw the army for no reason, without letting anyone know.

Evora would have been lost anyway, it was just a matter of time as it's easier to reach from the North than from the South.

The North has organised its offensives well for several months whilst the South has been bickering amongst itself and alienated the peasantry too much to have stable control along the front lines. An alliance divided loses its ability to respond effectively.