Appointed rulers

[vonGenf]

I find the point of game-mechanics "anointing" of a ruler to be pointless. You can already "anoint" a ruler through RP. And if you don't like the ruler, refuse to do it, and use your priests and followers to cause problems.  You don't need game mechanics to do it for you.

There is a game mechanic of anointing. It currently works through election. Is it the best way?

[Indirik]

No, that's not anointing, that's election. (Anoint may not even be the right word...) Anointing is the formal recognition of the ruler by the church. The church doesn't choose the new ruler, they merely provide a formal blessing, or the church's formal acceptance, of the ruler. The game mechanics for anointing that have been discussed generally revolve around some specific option the leader of a religion (the official religion, or just any religion?) has to officially bless the new ruler. If no one will anoint the ruler, then there are possible penalties, such as religious unrest, region stat penalties, etc. Personally, I don't think any of that is necessary. You can already RP an anointing. And if you don't like the ruler, you already have the tools to cause the unrest. Just send your priests out to start stirring up trouble.  And if you don't have the priests and the followers to do it, then you're not a strong enough religion where it would make sense for the game to be able to do it for you. And if your religion is strong enough to do it on your own, then you don't need the game to do it for you. In fact, it brings about much more action and RP opportunities if you do it yourself.

[vonGenf]

The proposal is not about the leader of a religion; it is about Judges.

[Shenron]

No, that's not anointing, that's election. (Anoint may not even be the right word...) Anointing is the formal recognition of the ruler by the church. The church doesn't choose the new ruler, they merely provide a formal blessing, or the church's formal acceptance, of the ruler. The game mechanics for anointing that have been discussed generally revolve around some specific option the leader of a religion (the official religion, or just any religion?) has to officially bless the new ruler. If no one will anoint the ruler, then there are possible penalties, such as religious unrest, region stat penalties, etc. Personally, I don't think any of that is necessary. You can already RP an anointing. And if you don't like the ruler, you already have the tools to cause the unrest. Just send your priests out to start stirring up trouble.  And if you don't have the priests and the followers to do it, then you're not a strong enough religion where it would make sense for the game to be able to do it for you. And if your religion is strong enough to do it on your own, then you don't need the game to do it for you. In fact, it brings about much more action and RP opportunities if you do it yourself.

Do you say this in every thread concerning religion? All I'm hearing is: "if I can do it you can do it." My answer is a big monotone no. Sanguis Astroism is the biggest (or the most politically encompassing) religion that battlemaster has ever seen. I'm sorry that the rest of us cannot match your amazing feat. Game mechanics are the foundation of BM, saying "hey look just become powerful enough to RP it" does not cut the cheese in a game thats advertised as taking 15 minutes of your time a day (or whatever it is.)

[Indirik]

The proposal is not about the leader of a religion; it is about Judges.

You're right. It seems like I drifted it slightly off topic. I didn't mean to derail the read with my slightly tangential post.

[Indirik]

Do you say this in every thread concerning religion? All I'm hearing is: "if I can do it you can do it." My answer is a big monotone no. Sanguis Astroism is the biggest (or the most politically encompassing) religion that battlemaster has ever seen. I'm sorry that the rest of us cannot match your amazing feat. Game mechanics are the foundation of BM, saying "hey look just become powerful enough to RP it" does not cut the cheese in a game thats advertised as taking 15 minutes of your time a day (or whatever it is.)

Do you really think that SA is the only religion that can wield political power if it wants to? How about Church of Ibladesh? Do you think that  if CoI didn't like a newly elected ruler of Ibladesh, that they couldn't cause enough problems to get him replaced? Or that Darkanism couldn't do it to Darka? How about Adgharhinism in Arcachon, or MAE in Greater Aenilia? Etc., etc., etc... In this respect, SA is only remarkable because it could do it on a larger scale, and in multiple realms. But there are several religions that could do it in a single realm.

There are religions that can exert tremendous political power if they so desire. The problem is not that religions can't do it, but that they choose not to do so, or have never had the need to do it.

Anyway, that's a completely different thread, and not related to this one about appointing rulers.

[Chenier]

I don't think the religion side is necessary.

Just make an option:
If the judge is not appointed, then the ruler can be selected via appointing by the judge.

It would make the judge more powerful, give some cool RP possibilities, and doesn't seem like it'd cause a big imbalance.

This is what I was asking for. I think that having some realms where the ruler gets appointed instead of elected would add interesting opportunities, the rest is just fluff or justification for this. Having the option the general those same powers in a tyranny would go along the same lines. The only balance issue in such things that I could think of is that OOC bans should maybe be given to whichever position is necessarily elected.

I'm not asking for religions to have that power, since religion leaders are unelected and this could help cliques in keeping a very large number of people out of positions.

[Vellos]

I'm not asking for religions to have that power, since religion leaders are unelected and this could help cliques in keeping a very large number of people out of positions.

Moreover, adding in religions gets very, very complicated.

And if a religion is powerful, they can try to vote in their candidate as judge (or whatever the appointing post is), and it accomplishes nearly the same thing.

[Chenier]

Moreover, adding in religions gets very, very complicated.

And if a religion is powerful, they can try to vote in their candidate as judge (or whatever the appointing post is), and it accomplishes nearly the same thing.

Indeed.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Shouldn't be too hard to modify government type to something special, like a special Theocracy option that must be exercised upon reset of realm (Secession/Rebellion/Anarchy reset). I think it should be a separate system that is clearly indicated as such, with different mechanics.

BUT! I don't expect this system to be very popular, and cannot say whether the attention to implementing this is worth sacrificing attention from something like getting the fabled new estate system finally live, or improving battle mechanics some more.

[Chenier]

Shouldn't be too hard to modify government type to something special, like a special Theocracy option that must be exercised upon reset of realm (Secession/Rebellion/Anarchy reset). I think it should be a separate system that is clearly indicated as such, with different mechanics.

BUT! I don't expect this system to be very popular, and cannot say whether the attention to implementing this is worth sacrificing attention from something like getting the fabled new estate system finally live, or improving battle mechanics some more.

I'd opt for it. I suspect a few would. But not the majority. Especially considering that changing government systems is pretty hard. It would be quite a small number.

Having a generally more customizable government system, with the strong/balanced/weak settings and maybe even the option to add certain government power to certain positions (I'd love for realms to be able to have from 3 to 6 titles, banker being optional and having 3 "lesser" council positions optional), such as giving the option to fine to the banker instead of the judge. By making some positions stronger than others, it'd be much more easier to get an atmosphere were the ruler isn't necessarily the most prestigious and influential government position.