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[songqu88@gmail.com]

Because a religion means a faith or set of beliefs, that in some way explains the way the world around you works.  It usually involves believing in specific supernatural entities.

"All religions are welcome" is not a religion.  It's a political position.

I think there was something in Hinduism... "All paths lead to the one Truth, though many sages call upon it by different names."

[Anaris]

I think there was something in Hinduism... "All paths lead to the one Truth, though many sages call upon it by different names."

But Hinduism doesn't tell you "Christianity is right, and Buddhism is right, and Zoroastrianism is right!"

[songqu88@gmail.com]

If Skyndarbau is really saying that, then obviously that's a self-undermining religion. But if the message is "Your beliefs are just named differently. All of them, and no, they don't contradict each other because those beliefs operate higher than human reasoning." then you're fine. "All beliefs are welcome" is different from "All religions are welcome", and it's not really clear which one Skyndarbau's talking about.

[Anaris]

If Skyndarbau is really saying that, then obviously that's a self-undermining religion. But if the message is "Your beliefs are just named differently. All of them, and no, they don't contradict each other because those beliefs operate higher than human reasoning." then you're fine. "All beliefs are welcome" is different from "All religions are welcome", and it's not really clear which one Skyndarbau's talking about.

I'm not sure Unitarian Universalism is really an appropriate religion for SMA either...that's the kind of thing that came in after the Enlightenment, IIRC.

It's one thing to say, "This is God, and all your Gods are just other names for Him."  That's a real religion with tolerance for other religions.

It's completely different to say, "All your Gods are equally correct, and we don't say that any God is more correct than any other."  That's not the kind of religion that belongs in SMA.

Basically, a BM religion has to tell people something more than "All religions are good!"

[Shizzle]

It doesn't say that at all; actually it would stay far away from making statements on any religion. This institution would only say "you can believe whatever you want, as long as you don't bring it up in a political discussion", or "you can believe anything you want, as long as you let other people do the same"

[Chenier]

It doesn't say that at all; actually it would stay far away from making statements on any religion. This institution would only say "you can believe whatever you want, as long as you don't bring it up in a political discussion", or "you can believe anything you want, as long as you let other people do the same"

Sounds like post-enlightenment freedom ideologies to me.

[Shizzle]

Sounds like post-enlightenment freedom ideologies to me.

What about the Romans? They didn't care if foreign religions constructed temples to weird gods in Rome. But they _did_ care if the Emperor followed a strange god, because he had power and influence...

[Anaris]

What about the Romans? They didn't care if foreign religions constructed temples to weird gods in Rome. But they _did_ care if the Emperor followed a strange god, because he had power and influence...

But THAT IS NOT THEIR RELIGION.

Their religion was worshiping Jove, and Juno, and all the other, y'know, Roman Gods.

[Bedwyr]

But THAT IS NOT THEIR RELIGION.

Their religion was worshiping Jove, and Juno, and all the other, y'know, Roman Gods.

No.  Roman belief system accepted all the other gods as valid.  Standard Roman practice when taking over new land would be to attempt to bribe the main local deities by offering to build a new shrine or temple in Rome and given them many new offerings and followers.  You were expected to acknowledge all the gods at appropriate moments, but many people only had special devotion to one god or goddess beyond the rituals you had to perform as part of your day.  (I had a class that spent about half the semester on religion in Rome and Greece, and quite enjoyed reading all the religious sections in detail).

This is beside the point, however.  The Romans are not Medieval Europe, and it has been repeatedly said that "the Romans did it!" is not a valid way of supporting something in Battlemaster.

[Shenron]

I think the main problem is what the hell are you going to preach to the peasants. "All beliefs are ok just don't mention it." Religion was a way of life for the peasants, a way of keeping them docile. Religions need simple messags to preach to the masses.

Promoting free beliefs is also a huge contradiction with the "You are commoners and we are nobles." idea. Actually it seems like Skynderbau doesn't like that idea much anyway 

And, medieval europe =/= roman empire

[Shizzle]

I think the main problem is what the hell are you going to preach to the peasants. "All beliefs are ok just don't mention it." Religion was a way of life for the peasants, a way of keeping them docile. Religions need simple messags to preach to the masses.

Promoting free beliefs is also a huge contradiction with the "You are commoners and we are nobles." idea. Actually it seems like Skynderbau doesn't like that idea much anyway 

And, medieval europe =/= roman empire

Haha Well Skyndarbau is totally against "Nobles are genetically superior".  He agrees that nobles are far above any common man, and expects them to follow his lead, but he also believes power comes with responsability. I know that there was a lot of buzz on the people demanding the same rights for adventurers and all, but Skyndarbau is not one of those nobles. Shin Shenron kicked Skyndarbau's dog, and he doesn't like it at all

And of course Medieval Europe does not equal Roman times, but any educated man must sure have heard of some of their ways?

[Shizzle]

And for that matter: who says Skyndarbau is no direct decendant from a family existing ever since the Battlemaster equivalent of Roman times? 

and: many things in Battlemaster seem inspired by Antiquity. Latin character names are everywhere...

(interesting discussion though)

[Meneldur]

Isn't the whole "acknowledging the local deities and leaving it at that" basically the default "Pagan and local folklore" religion?

I mean what/how are you converting them? If you preach "Just worship whatever you want" then why/how on earth are they "converting"? How do you convert someone without changing their beliefs?

Remember that no one in BM is truly atheist (although some may care little about religion), so in reality your "worship your private gods and don't speak about it to anyone else" idea is essentially practiced by default by a majority of nobles and peasants in the game.

I think that it is possible to have a "tolerance" religion in BM and for it to be SMA however the point of player-made religion is that it has something different to offer nobles than the ordinary paganism.

Be creative: perhaps the main deity of your religion is the god of order, rulers and authority. Every ruler secular, religious and divine (even other deities) is in power only by his will. You could preach that it is the duty of your followers to respect, acknowledge and follow their regional/family/personal rulers, religions and gods because they were put in place by your ruling deity; however you require converts to acknowledge that the authority of these other deities comes directly from your god, and to worship him as well.

Of course this is just an idea; I'm just demonstrating that there are a myriad of interesting ways you can do this. However I think that just to create a religion of not caring about religion is pointless and boring; doing nothing to enrich the game, especially when a religion is something that can add so much interesting rp.

[Vellos]

What about the Romans? They didn't care if foreign religions constructed temples to weird gods in Rome. But they _did_ care if the Emperor followed a strange god, because he had power and influence...

This is stupid.

Romans regularly persecuted at least two faiths (Druids, Judaism/Christianity).

Also, Roman culture accepted other religions. And, yes, Roman religion was syncretistic, but syncretism is not the same as enlightenment tolerance.

Syncretism is not theological relativism; it is a very broad category for revelation. Roman religion was highly syncretistic. It was not particularly liberalized, and it was a state religion which all persons where expected to follow (imperial cult being a particularly interesting study), hence the persecution of Jews and Christians even prior to political militancy.

A Church of Tolerance is completely non SMA and has no business being in Dwilight. Frankly, I'd toss that one to the Titans if I ever noticed it in the list of religions. And I'd be sure to declare it evil in Triunism.

[Shizzle]

Of course Triunism would declare it evil, perhaps any religion should

To clarify: I have no intentions of founding a Church of Tolerance. I think it is an interesting thought though, specifically because of the SMA regulations. I also agree that such a "religion" might be boring, though that all depents on it's followers, really.

The thing is that many religions seem to mainly cover one purpose: to keep enemy religions out. This Church might be particularily good at that

And I'm not responding to Vellos because he uses too many difficult words 

Could a Dev or someone with the needed authority provide judgement wether this would be violating any rules or not? I don't want this to litter the whole Dwilight thread...