Have dynamic tax rates instead of hard tax rates

[Chenier]

The tolerable tax rates keep changing, and keeping up with it is quite unpleasant and drains time that would be better spent otherwise.

It would be nice if we could set taxes that would dynamically adjust to the tax tolerance rate instead. In other words, instead of saying 7% or 16%, one could say "very low", "low", "average", "high", "very high", and "extremely high". This kind of automation would make the game much more enjoyable, as maintenance is boring is that's what one gets stuck to do whenever the tolerance changes at the stats drop really quickly once they do.

I, for one, fail to have any enjoyment when fiddling with taxes to figure out what the new tolerable limit is every time, receiving 10% stats drops despite the tax cuts again and again. It's a chore that could easily be automated.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Let there be two options at the very least. Some people do enjoy the part of lordship that leads to nice monetary rewards due to good attention to the region's condition.

Recall that we are allowed to play at our own pace, so just as we can play this once a week for 2 minutes, we are also just as able to play this 24/7 with a microchip implanted in our brains. So we could probably get something that isn't too hard for people who really insist on becoming lords without wanting to do too much. (Actually, if not to take care of the region, just what IS the lord doing anyway? I always get annoyed by people who take council and/or lordship positions and log in once a week. Seriously, it's not like the rest of the realm is unaffected by a !@#$ty person in a position of responsibility.)

I also don't think it's really that severe. Having one or two days where you missed the message that the locals complain about taxes won't hurt your region much. If you let it slide for a week, then you have either lost your position by 5 days of inactivity, or you're being a crappy lord.

Note this: Yes you can play at your own pace. BUT! NO, you do not have any right to any position. So no, you can't actually get away with being an incompetent lord.

[Chenier]

I don't mind having both systems, but if you run a high tax rate and the limit is recalculated downward, things spiral out of control *really* fast. Production is usually the one most affected and harder to bring up. Morale almost as much. I'm not talking a week here, but 2-3 days.

If at least we could lower taxes by more than 5% at a time, too... I'd rather bring them too low and then gradually bring them back up as things improve. But the limit reduces the possible speed of reaction.

Having the potential to micromanage is good, imo, but it shouldn't be mandatory. And of all micromanagement, I find taxes to be the least enjoyable, personally. Partially because most of the realms in which I play have a severe estate problem that increases the volatility of the acceptable tax limit. For my city which does have enough estates, distance from the capital is the volatility factor. But even for my lord both close to the capital and with enough estates, the recalculations hurt every now and then and not just by 2%. I've had to shrink taxes and do maintenance with all 4 lords this week (I haven't had any trouble with any for the last month at least before that), and I found it to be a rather non-motivating exercise.

[LilWolf]

In my experience you only run into problems frequently if you run a close to the max tax rate. If you don't want to do the "micromanagement", run a tax rate that isn't close to the max. You'll get less gold, but hey, you're putting in less effort as well.

A lords position should come with some duties after all. There should be some skill involved in being a lord. Not everything should be automated.

[Indirik]

I have to agree with LilWolf. If you don't want to pay constant attention to your region, then drop the tax rate a few points, and you won't have many problems at all. But less work = less income.

[Vellos]

But less work = less income.

This seems to be contradictory to the entire idea of light-weight play.

Investing twice as much time should not yield twice as many returns. Or even close to that much.

[Lorgan]

This seems to be contradictory to the entire idea of light-weight play.

Investing twice as much time should not yield twice as many returns. Or even close to that much.

I really don't invest much RL time in running high taxes. And I'm someone who always runs the maximum possible. The good share of my IG hours however go to sustaining that tax rate, but what is it really, two clicks a day? And every once in a while lowering or raising taxes, which can be done in 5 seconds.

Oh and as for the actual topic, I really prefer the percentages over "low" and "high" etc. 1% really can be the difference between prosperity and chaos, and I at least enjoy finding out where that limit lies. And as has been said, if you want to run taxes close to that limit, you need to be ready to lower them too. Whether it's after a secession or a couple of failed courts.
There are enough warnings in the region report to base your tax rate on after all.

[Chenier]

I have to agree with LilWolf. If you don't want to pay constant attention to your region, then drop the tax rate a few points, and you won't have many problems at all. But less work = less income.

The tolerable tax changes I've been seeing these days aren't a 1-3% drop. They are more along the lines of 5-10% drop. That's easily a difference of gross revenues of 33-66%, production drops from the adjustment period not considered. When you consider the production costs and the maintenance costs, the net income difference is quite considerable.

Should I and the knights aligned to my region gather 40% of what we potentially could without problems just to be sure that we don't get whipped by the tolerance recalculations? Estate requirements don't scale down when I lower taxes, so I need to get knights one way or another if I don't want to spend all day doing maintenance. And to get knights, I need to pay them decently, or they'll just (rightfully) go elsewhere.

Dynamic tax rates would make the game much more lightweight. Doesn't need to be fully automated either. If it just considers the normal tax tolerance and not stuff like looting or starvation, it would still mean that people have to take special measures for special circumstances. But I don't see any reason why people should be forced to take special measures for completely mundane circumstances, like a city seceding two weeks' travel away.

[Indirik]

This seems to be contradictory to the entire idea of light-weight play.

Investing twice as much time should not yield twice as many returns. Or even close to that much.

Lightweight for the player does not necessarily equal lightweight for the character. It's just as easy to log on and follow orders, requiring no more or less time investment on the player's end, than it takes to log on and hold a just court. Same player time investment, but the holding court every turn (or do buro work/police work) allows you to run a higher tax rate. Your character invests more time in the region, and thus can get more out of the region.

So if you want to sit there and babysit your region, you will get more gold out of it. You as a player probably won't be spending any more time at it. But your character will be spending lots of time sitting around doing not much of anything.

[Indirik]

The tolerable tax changes I've been seeing these days aren't a 1-3% drop. They are more along the lines of 5-10% drop. That's easily a difference of gross revenues of 33-66%, production drops from the adjustment period not considered. When you consider the production costs and the maintenance costs, the net income difference is quite considerable.

Is this in a realm hit by TMP penalties, or a realm without it? Whenever I will not be in my region for a long time, I drop the tax by 2% or so and leave. I almost never have a problem with it. Brance has only been in Libidizedd for a few days out of the past three or more months. But the region cruises along at a comfortable 12-13% taxes without me, and I don't even have full production coverage. (94% or so...) I can't say as how I've ever seen such massive tolerance shifts without something major happening. But if you're trying to push the envelope and wring every coin out of the region that you can get, then you will have to settle for the fact that it requires frequent adjustment to keep that going.

[Chenier]

Is this in a realm hit by TMP penalties, or a realm without it?

Both. Iato on BT and Winwich on AT got considerable drops this week. Iato's now having a few more troubles because food has been delayed, but it's otherwise stabilized at about 65% morale and production, which is the level it reached before I bought taxes way down and food ran out.

It's also problematic that once production goes down, it takes quite a while to bring it back up. And this despite my good and excellent estate covers in these non-TMP realms.

[Indirik]

Both. Iato on BT and Winwich on AT got considerable drops this week. Iato's now having a few more troubles because food has been delayed, but it's otherwise stabilized at about 65% morale and production, which is the level it reached before I bought taxes way down and food ran out.

But, again, a region with major troubles. Starvation causing low morale, etc. Of course tax tolerance goes down.

[Bedwyr]

I've seen four percent swings in Askileon a few times, no TMP or starving.  Seems to be a cyclical thing where it tolerates high taxes, then doesn't, then does again.  I babysit it, and sometimes can maintain 22% without losing more morale than I can handle with a day of Mercy courts...And then a day will come along when I lose 10% production, 18% morale, and the region won't stop having catastrophic losses until I drop it to 18%.

[Vellos]

... you run 22% tax rates? That's insane. I never run more than 15% or so, and that's only when I desperately need cash.

Maybe the problem is that ya'll are running double the tax rate the game recommends as normal.

[Bedwyr]

(shrugs) I've seen people run 25% rates before.  I just think it's interesting that it swings.  I'll be losing maybe 8-9% morale a day, easily handleable...And then one day the stats drop massively and I have to dial it way back.