This hasn't been working properly for a very long time now, and I think it's time we cut mentors as a class.
I still think the basic idea is solid. But maybe it shouldn't be a class. I am thinking of a message channel.
Instead of a sub-class that requires people to decide "do I really want to be a mentor? Or should I be a diplomat or cavalier instead?"... Perhaps have it as a flagging option? Have it to similar, but separate from the class/subclass restrictions?
That way a duke who is a warrior and hero can also be a mentor to new members of a realm/the game.
Many realms have formed a mentoring guild or something similar. I think this works better than the mentor class.
I agree with some option you can check to become a Mentor after having played for x time, so new players can come to you with questions. I believe this was also discussed before. A message channel with all Mentors and Students might help in providing communication (Which is like a Mentor Guild, I guess. But I'm not sure of our current set-up as I haven't been a Mentor for a while)
A guild is a bit too much trouble, IMO, as people have to actively hunt down the guild halls and they have to be maintained ICly. As the mentoring program is mostly to help new players get accustomed to the game, such IC mechanics shouldn't be there as a barrier.
There's been a lot of discussion in the "Retention Revisited" thread (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php?topic=701.0 (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php?topic=701.0)) over the past several months of potential replacements for the mentor system. That thread should be mined for good ideas before we go back round in the same circles.
Anyone have the time to dig up the relevant posts in that thread, and post links to them here, preferably with one-line summaries?
Quote from: Draco Tanos on February 06, 2012, 11:19:11 AM
Instead of a sub-class that requires people to decide "do I really want to be a mentor? Or should I be a diplomat or cavalier instead?"... Perhaps have it as a flagging option? Have it to similar, but separate from the class/subclass restrictions?
That way a duke who is a warrior and hero can also be a mentor to new members of a realm/the game.
People have been suggesting this for years. I think it would be a good idea as well. I, for one, would not sacrifice being an ambassador to be able to MAYBE get a few mentor points off the newbies that join the realm twice per year.
How much do people think that mentoring should be in-realm and how much should it be realm independent?
I could, theoretically, set up a "mentoring guild" that has NPC-run guildhouses in every city and stronghold and every new player gets automatically added as a member, or something.
Quote from: Tom on February 07, 2012, 10:32:52 AM
How much do people think that mentoring should be in-realm and how much should it be realm independent?
Interesting point. While on the one hand it would be good to have it realm independent to increase the chances newcomers get a proper training, on the other I believe the mentor/student interaction is among the strongest in the game, and would be thus good to keep it privy to the realm the student starts. This means a good mentor the students feel attached to may rely on his students for his own agenda, and that happened to me directly some times. I don't really have an opinion on it, just throwing my feedback in the pot for the moment.
Quote from: Peri on February 07, 2012, 10:48:02 AM
Interesting point. While on the one hand it would be good to have it realm independent to increase the chances newcomers get a proper training, on the other I believe the mentor/student interaction is among the strongest in the game, and would be thus good to keep it privy to the realm the student starts. This means a good mentor the students feel attached to may rely on his students for his own agenda, and that happened to me directly some times. I don't really have an opinion on it, just throwing my feedback in the pot for the moment.
*Raises hand* Learned most of my stuff from Bustoarsenzio.
Anyways, I would prefer that mentor be something done on a player basis, not a character one. So make an option for the player to receive messages about new players joining, with another option asking if they wish to mentor this new player. It would be independent of continents, with a specific messaging option allowing said person to mentor the other, player to player, regardless of which character they are playing as.
The reason I suggest it be this way is that small realms, such as those of about 12-16 nobles, might not have anybody willing to put the time into mentoring someone, while in a large realm like Sirion or Arcaea, the new player might get lost among the masses. Honestly, I'm not to picky on the particulars, this was just my suggestion, but I would definitely prefer it be done on a player to player basis rather than by one character to another.
I think it should be more realm dependent, personally. If done cross realm ICly or done cross player OOC, I believe many new players will be more likely to gravitate to the realms where their mentors are.
I don't know what would be better in the long run, however. I do believe that if it's removed as a subclass and added in as something that anyone can volunteer to do so as to not hinder their own characters' playing experiences, more people are likely to take part in the process.
Most of my characters are priests with a helpful subclass that would go well with it (though one day I will be a Priest/Cavalier for fun and to confuse my enemies). I've never touched the mentor subclass because it stops me from doing what I want the character(s) to do. If that changes? Would love to get more actively involved.
Quote from: Draco Tanos on February 07, 2012, 01:29:29 PM
I think it should be more realm dependent, personally. If done cross realm ICly or done cross player OOC, I believe many new players will be more likely to gravitate to the realms where their mentors are.
Wouldn't this be the case either way? I'm not seeing a real difference, as either way the new player and the mentor are probably going to form a connection somehow.
In a nutshell, a realm-based mentoring system can have great rp and narrative potential, especially because I find it pretty fitting the idea that one student is taught while embedded in a determined social environment given by a certain realm - as long as the mentor is also good enough to teach him game mechanics objectively at the same time. Clearly such approach would make the mentoring less effective as a newcomer picking the wrong realm (and he has really no way to know it beforehand) would risk to be lost to himself.
An island-wide or game-wide system (I doubt the latter would be appropriated or implementable though) would make mentoring probably more effective but clearly more OOC oriented.
In a sense it's sheer effectiveness (if island-wide) vs flavour (if realm-wide).
A related question is how important the absence of a mentor is in the decision of a player to abandon the game.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on February 07, 2012, 01:42:03 PM
Wouldn't this be the case either way? I'm not seeing a real difference, as either way the new player and the mentor are probably going to form a connection somehow.
The difference is some would likely turn it into a recruitment method rather than a training method.
The question is if we should make it an IC thing or an OOC thing.
If OOC - we could simply set up a board in the forum.
It doesn't matter to me if mentoring is IC or OOC. But it should not be realm-based. Too many realms don't have good mentors. All new players should have access to as wide a range of mentors as possible.
One possible issue with an island-wide mentors guild is that it could become an avenue for communication by experienced players. Guilds are often used to facilitate communication, and many people routinely join as many guilds as possible for that reason. How could we control that, to prevent from being just another avenue of communication and propaganda?
If we do it forum-based, then we would be forcing players to join and use the forums.
The thing is that many new players may not even bother to check out the forum. I know I wouldn't, starting out. Yes, it's counter-intuitive, but I prefer to get into a game first, then go on the forums if it looks like I'll be playing it often.
Not counter-intuitive at all. I never check the forums for a game until I know that I like it, and am willing to invest time in it. Forums are a lot of work, and can take a lot of time to keep up with. Why bother doing that for a game you aren't even sure you will like?
My take:
Mentorship is, by its nature, an OOC thing. This should be acknowledged and respected by the game mechanics that support it. Yes, it's cool to be able to roleplay a mentor-student relationship in-character, but that is and should be secondary to helping people learn to play the game.
Because of this, mentorship should never be bound to any in-character construct such as a realm.
Forcing new players to look to the forum for mentorship is tantamount to abandoning casually interested new players. They will not be willing to take that extra effort.
Thus: It must be in-game, but not in-character, and not realm-centric.
My primary impulse is to just create an island-wide "all mentors and students" channel, possibly limited to out-of-character messages, and prevent contacts from being created between two mentors by messages sent through the channel. Then mentors will easily be able to communicate with all students, and through personal replies, to their own students, but there will no longer be a specific tie between a particular mentor and student.
Quote from: Anaris on February 07, 2012, 03:06:01 PM
My take:
Mentorship is, by its nature, an OOC thing. This should be acknowledged and respected by the game mechanics that support it. Yes, it's cool to be able to roleplay a mentor-student relationship in-character, but that is and should be secondary to helping people learn to play the game.
Because of this, mentorship should never be bound to any in-character construct such as a realm.
Forcing new players to look to the forum for mentorship is tantamount to abandoning casually interested new players. They will not be willing to take that extra effort.
Thus: It must be in-game, but not in-character, and not realm-centric.
My primary impulse is to just create an island-wide "all mentors and students" channel, possibly limited to out-of-character messages, and prevent contacts from being created between two mentors by messages sent through the channel. Then mentors will easily be able to communicate with all students, and through personal replies, to their own students, but there will no longer be a specific tie between a particular mentor and student.
What you propose makes sense. What naturally follows it is to discuss how is one supposed to become a mentor: if it's a self declaration or not, and how to prevent a single student being flooded by dozens of replies to his answer.
Quote from: Tom on February 07, 2012, 02:12:09 PM
The question is if we should make it an IC thing or an OOC thing.
If OOC - we could simply set up a board in the forum.
There is already a newbie board on the forum. This does not preclude an extra in-game system. I always liked the idea of IC mentoring.
IC mentoring is nice, when you have it. It's not always best for describing the game mechanics for a new player though.
The thing is that an IG feature is more easily accessible to the new players. And yes, making things more accessible does help with retention. I completely support Anaris' suggestion.
I don't know that mentorship is really an ooc thing. Gregor was a mentor for a long long time and I made sure that my students got lordships over others in my Duchy or in the realm. When I was Duke in Westmoor I continued the practice with Knights where I could, and I promoted new knights to vice-marshalships to get them involved. I think Ravier is a nice example of how that can turn out.
I don't have the time to actively pursue it as a side project sort of thing anymore, and frankly my last half dozen students just fell off the face of the earth even though I tried to keep them engaged. It's not always an easy thing to do. Point being, anyone can muck about and figure things out, not everyone can get people advanced faster to make them want to stick around and get more power and influence.
well... you are teaching the player or new knights of new families i guess... so.. it depends on how you read it.
Quote from: loren on February 07, 2012, 07:09:35 PM
I don't know that mentorship is really an ooc thing.
It is.
And it is IC.
That's part of the problem: that something this important has been made this confusing and ambiguous.
No
character should be teaching people how to play the game. Characters should be teaching people how to play the twin games of politics and war, not the game of BattleMaster.
QuoteGregor was a mentor for a long long time and I made sure that my students got lordships over others in my Duchy or in the realm. When I was Duke in Westmoor I continued the practice with Knights where I could, and I promoted new knights to vice-marshalships to get them involved.
And I see no problem with continuing this practice, but it should be done on a more IC level—and, ideally, done through the liege relationship, as that is precisely where it makes most sense.
The problem is that teaching people
how to play BattleMaster should not be tied to this sort of thing.
What if we made an HTML5 tutorial? One that would simulate a turn in rapid fashion. It could pull the system clock of a person and let them know how long an action taken now would have to wait to see a result. I could be completely scripted down to even sending messages to the whole realm, to individuals and the like.
It could even have a scripted battle etc.
Quote from: loren on February 07, 2012, 07:09:35 PM
I don't know that mentorship is really an ooc thing. Gregor was a mentor for a long long time and I made sure that my students got lordships over others in my Duchy or in the realm. When I was Duke in Westmoor I continued the practice with Knights where I could, and I promoted new knights to vice-marshalships to get them involved. I think Ravier is a nice example of how that can turn out.
Indeed. He's now the Marshal after Arica started a rebellion, been made a Baron by the peasantry in Gadlock, and now also has caused consternation in the realm due to his recent death duel. The fun never stops!
Fun indeed. And its only just begun, you're missing out on Jor being an ass =)
Quote from: Tom on February 07, 2012, 10:32:52 AM
How much do people think that mentoring should be in-realm and how much should it be realm independent?
I could, theoretically, set up a "mentoring guild" that has NPC-run guildhouses in every city and stronghold and every new player gets automatically added as a member, or something.
Hmmm... realm-dependant helps integrate the player with the people he should be mostly playing with, but sometimes (often) the realm level isn't a large enough pool of players/mentors anymore...
Quote from: loren on February 07, 2012, 11:54:45 PM
Fun indeed. And its only just begun, you're missing out on Jor being an ass =)
He's also Viktor. And Ravier would take a fine without question as he knows he was in the wrong for accepting the death duel. Isn't that right, Ravier?
Quote from: Draco Tanos on February 08, 2012, 04:15:54 AM
He's also Viktor. And Ravier would take a fine without question as he knows he was in the wrong for accepting the death duel. Isn't that right, Ravier?
You might have to beat me a bit first, but generally that works..
Wrong? What could possibly be wrong with a nice, friendly duel to the death?
can we get back on topic please? take your talk on death duels elsewhere.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on February 08, 2012, 06:53:41 AM
can we get back on topic please? take your talk on death duels elsewhere.
Who made you the damned Forum Police? I'm ever so sorry your royal highness for making one small aside comment linked to IC mentoring which people picked up on. [/sarcasm]
Anyway, Loren's point is a good one and I have personal experience of it. If you can keep being a mentor an IC thing, even if there isn't an explicit game mechanic to support it, then it can help in some ways to develop characters. Which can never be a bad thing, really, because at heart we're here to RP medieval nobles in a PvP setting. That's not to say there shouldn't be an element of OOC thrown in as well, I mean some of the good lesson plans that I read on the wiki had an OOC lesson at the end where the player behind the new character could speak freely and ask other questions about the game that didn't quite fit ICly.
But I also wonder then whether a quick tutorial for first-time players would be beneficial. But how would it fit in? I assume if someone were to code something like that they'd not integrate it with the game itself because it might cause havoc with the turn structure of the existing islands.
Quote from: Tom on February 07, 2012, 02:12:09 PM
The question is if we should make it an IC thing or an OOC thing.
If OOC - we could simply set up a board in the forum.
Forums are bad, most people that play the game will not read the forum.
So, has anyone found a reason why an island-wide special guild wouldn't be the best solution?
It would require a little bit of additional coding so it doesn't suffer from guildhouse maintainance fees, can't be closed down by local lords and new players auto-join, but aside from that?
The question is, would messages sent there be restricted to OoC messages? That would prevent the abuse of the guild.
Quote from: JPierreD on February 09, 2012, 12:46:34 AM
The question is, would messages sent there be restricted to OoC messages? That would prevent the abuse of the guild.
"restricting" messages makes no sense. We can't control what players write in messages.
Quote from: Tom on February 09, 2012, 09:17:30 AM
"restricting" messages makes no sense. We can't control what players write in messages.
No, but would prevent players to confuse it with a IC-communication guild.
Quote from: Tom on February 08, 2012, 11:02:02 PM
So, has anyone found a reason why an island-wide special guild wouldn't be the best solution?
It would require a little bit of additional coding so it doesn't suffer from guildhouse maintainance fees, can't be closed down by local lords and new players auto-join, but aside from that?
I believe there should be rules for joining or else I'd foresee basically every noble in the island joining such a guild to the death for spam of anyone who dares to ask a question.
I'd say let there be a set limit for how long you are in it after joining, say... 3-4 months? I'm just throwing a number out there. Long enough that you can learn most of what you need to know. After that you are kicked out automatically. Now the mentor side of it, I believe that should be voluntary.
I personally prefer a set up where you interact with the player and it doesn't matter what continent they play on. The only reason it would be limited to an island is if it is related to the specific character, not the broader issue of game mechanics, in which we don't care which character it is. The more we can separate this from IC, in my opinion, the better. IC mentoring is for stuff like politics and teaching the IC parts of the game, not the game mechanics.
Quote from: Peri on February 09, 2012, 10:43:15 AM
I believe there should be rules for joining or else I'd foresee basically every noble in the island joining such a guild to the death for spam of anyone who dares to ask a question.
I've got nothing against helping new players, but I can't be bothered tutoring them day in day out. Even if I did want to have a useful point of contact with some far-flung comrade across the continent, I don't think it would be worth the responsibility and the haranguing I'd get. The price is too high. I really, really hope we don't need to have to point out to people that the guild is for players interested in helping new players only and not some new-fangled messaging tool for people who couldn't care less.
Quote from: Revan on February 09, 2012, 12:32:51 PM
I've got nothing against helping new players, but I can't be bothered tutoring them day in day out. Even if I did want to have a useful point of contact with some far-flung comrade across the continent, I don't think it would be worth the responsibility and the haranguing I'd get. The price is too high. I really, really hope we don't need to have to point out to people that the guild is for players interested in helping new players only and not some new-fangled messaging tool for people who couldn't care less.
No well I wasn't referring to using the guild as a communication tool. More to the fact that with a hundred chars in the guild to the question "hello, how does travel work" one could have a ton of answers back. But maybe it's not that much of a problem in the end..
Quote from: Peri on February 09, 2012, 02:25:49 PM
No well I wasn't referring to using the guild as a communication tool. More to the fact that with a hundred chars in the guild to the question "hello, how does travel work" one could have a ton of answers back. But maybe it's not that much of a problem in the end..
It's better to have redundant answers than no answer at all. This is especially true since for such simple questions on the first few days of playing, it is nice to have an answer within minutes and not have to wait for the next day.
Quote from: vonGenf on February 09, 2012, 02:36:07 PM
It's better to have redundant answers than no answer at all. This is especially true since for such simple questions on the first few days of playing, it is nice to have an answer within minutes and not have to wait for the next day.
that's a good point I didn't think of.
Quote from: Peri on February 09, 2012, 02:43:31 PM
that's a good point I didn't think of.
Also, if you see someone else post an answer, you can resist adding your own two cents...
What I would limit is In-Character messages to be sent or contacts be gathered from using the guild, for that would take away some of the value of most realm-spawning large guilds. If contact is made between two players through it at least they cannot claim it was IC.
Quote from: JPierreD on February 10, 2012, 04:44:08 AM
What I would limit is In-Character messages to be sent or contacts be gathered from using the guild, for that would take away some of the value of most realm-spawning large guilds. If contact is made between two players through it at least they cannot claim it was IC.
hmm, what if it was ran as a secret society, so that the senders/recipients are kept anonymous?
The issue with anyonomous is that you don't know who sent it, so who would you send it to. Though you could like a number system or something like that for naming. ie instead of it being your character name its 0001 for the secret society idea.
I think that limiting it to OoC messages would suffice. What is the benefit that anonymity would give?
Quote from: JPierreD on February 11, 2012, 03:08:59 AM
I think that limiting it to OoC messages would suffice. What is the benefit that anonymity would give?
One, so that people who always have to contradict each other, don't feel the need to do so.
Two, so that people aren't discouraged from helping out newbies in enemy realms.
Quote from: egamma on February 11, 2012, 04:34:51 AM
Two, so that people aren't discouraged from helping out newbies in enemy realms.
Maybe I'm too trusting of people in general, but I can't imagine anyone would sink that low.
Sadly, I could see it. Especially if it's something related to a war between realms, etc. It'd make people... Hesitant. Even if they don't meant to be so.
I have lost all faith in humanity after playing this game for a few years. :)
I once had a new player's young noble write my noble a farewell letter from prison, because the player thought his noble was going to be executed. He thought this because the enemy realm's Judge threatened to execute the young noble unless he defected. Keep in mind that this was a new noble, less than a week old, and obviously had no bans. The young noble had some bad luck and got captured within a week of starting, and so the enemy realm's Judge's player decided to take advantage of the new player's ignorance of game mechanics.
A week later, the new player's noble was released, and I could finally explain to him how prisons, bans, and executions work.
Yes. I made a Titan complaint. The Judge's player received a warning.
Edit: I guess what I'm saying is, Tom, if you make an island-wide, maintenance free guild, expect it to be exploited. If you allow people to post ICly, expect players to prey on newbies from enemy realms.
Quote from: GoldPanda on February 11, 2012, 11:23:57 AM
Edit: I guess what I'm saying is, Tom, if you make an island-wide, maintenance free guild, expect it to be exploited. If you allow people to post ICly, expect players to prey on newbies from enemy realms.
If we know what abuses to expect, we can counter them. But I already see that it might take quite a bit of work. We would have to prevent guild messages for this guild from creating contacts and all messages have to be to "all guild members".
The more I think about it, the more it seems that an actual guild is not the right approach. A simple message channel might be better, but that still creates contact information.
Quote from: Tom on February 07, 2012, 02:12:09 PM
The question is if we should make it an IC thing or an OOC thing.
If OOC - we could simply set up a board in the forum.
This will bring us to the next question. Do anyone care to check the forum board? I mean for those who busy with real life and so on 8)
How about if we setup a direct messaging for the newbie to all those oldest characters in that particular realm? As oldest characters, they are bound to have an in depth knowledge of BM and able to answer newbie questions. Or we can make it optional for the oldest characters to be included? Food for thought eh? ;)
Quote from: Ketchum on February 11, 2012, 01:48:06 PM
This will bring us to the next question. Do anyone care to check the forum board? I mean for those who busy with real life and so on 8)
How about if we setup a direct messaging for the newbie to all those oldest characters in that particular realm? As oldest characters, they are bound to have an in depth knowledge of BM and able to answer newbie questions. Or we can make it optional for the oldest characters to be included? Food for thought eh? ;)
Why should it just be the oldest characters though? There are plenty of people who have younger characters that would love to help. Especially since they remember what it's like to be new more clearly than the people who have been around forever.
Quote from: Gustav Kuriga on February 11, 2012, 02:02:02 PM
Why should it just be the oldest characters though? There are plenty of people who have younger characters that would love to help. Especially since they remember what it's like to be new more clearly than the people who have been around forever.
You stated a good valid point there. How about this? Make it so that those nobles too less time, let say for example, the noble been in realm for 7 days should not be able to "mentor" the newest realm member. This can help prevent abuse of the new mentor system messaging. Somemore, enemy will not be able to "smuggle in" someone to train all the newest nobles to run away from that realm they are at war with ::)
Quote from: Tom on February 11, 2012, 12:12:53 PM
If we know what abuses to expect, we can counter them. But I already see that it might take quite a bit of work. We would have to prevent guild messages for this guild from creating contacts and all messages have to be to "all guild members".
The more I think about it, the more it seems that an actual guild is not the right approach. A simple message channel might be better, but that still creates contact information.
Make it run the same way as the underground, you could use most of the same code. "an anonymous member writes" sort of thing, no contact created.
Have all new characters automatically join the 'n00b underground' , with an option to leave.
Give anyone who's played for 100 days a link to join as a mentor.
Make it clear who is asking -- "a player who joined 3 days ago asks the following question".
make it clear who is answering-- "a player who joined 1000 days ago offers this answer", and auto-quote the question.
Quote from: egamma on February 12, 2012, 04:23:33 AM
Make it run the same way as the underground, you could use most of the same code. "an anonymous member writes" sort of thing, no contact created.
Have all new characters automatically join the 'n00b underground' , with an option to leave.
Give anyone who's played for 100 days a link to join as a mentor.
Make it clear who is asking -- "a player who joined 3 days ago asks the following question".
make it clear who is answering-- "a player who joined 1000 days ago offers this answer", and auto-quote the question.
I seconded this option with a minor change to the last part. The 1000 days taken out to be replaced by the longest days the player has been in the realm. As we may realize, creating a new realm will reset even the oldest player to zero days :D
He means player, not character. Meaning base it on when the account was created.
It might screw with the old players who return, but they're mostly a minority.
Quote from: Draco Tanos on February 13, 2012, 10:06:49 AM
He means player, not character. Meaning base it on when the account was created.
Correct.
Pardon me for my misunderstanding of player, not character :-[
Hope this proposal will be accepted by Tom then :-\
Devs,
Was anything with this ever decided?
Two things.
1 - Remove mentor class now or later?
2 - Reusing guilds is the incorrect solution.
We need the channels system running first, then it's easy to simply add a channel or two for this.
New Knight (6 days, 8 hours ago)
A new knight has emerged from the ranks of the Oritolon nobles. Piers Beaumont is starting his career today.
He originates from Oritolon. He comes from a new noble family (OOC: 0 days in the game) and he might need some assistance to get started. Mentors, take note. You can check the background of this family or send a welcome message.
-----
Roleplay from Piers Beaumont (6 days, 8 hours ago)
Message sent to everyone in your realm (15 recipients)
Greetings unto the most just and honorable of my fellow nobles of Oritolon. My family has sent me to serve this realm with my life by my sword and blood, and I pledge to do so honorably and to the absolute best of my talents, by the good graces of the heavens. I beseech you, that I might serve with honor and loyalty to this realm until I draw my dying breath. I am eager to seek out service in the name of our realm.
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Letter from Piers Beaumont (6 days, 8 hours ago)
Of Piers Beaumont, greetings and blessings upon you, honorable mentor of Oritolon, Lady Ketchum
New to the goings of the realm, I beseech you for help in establishing myself in a position of trust and honor among nobles here. I understand that you help those as myself, and would teach me what I need to know. I ask that you mentor me, so that I may learn and grow in both the fruits of knowledge and wisdom.
Piers Beaumont (Noble)
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Letter from May Ketchum (6 days, 4 hours ago)
Message sent to all students in the realm (1 recipients)
Sir Piers Beaumont,
First of all, welcome to Oritolon. I hope you enjoy your time here.
We have to find yourself a liege, a lord. A lord will offer you an estate for you to serve as the region knight. When the tax day arrive, you will have some gold income to pay your men and perhaps recruit more men to serve the realm.
I have help you to lookup the realm hierarchy of Oritolon.
Count Cleatus of Sovonoval and Count Jing of Grentzen may need knight. As we are about to add Alebad city to our possession soon, with new Duke to be elected, you may serve as the city knight soon if you can wait.
It would be wise to address Lord by their titles when sending messages worldwide. Our current Prime Minister is Prime Minister Rhiannon. Our current Judge is my brother Ash Ketchum. In private letter, you may address me as Lady Ketchum, I decline the formality.
(Out of Character: Battlemaster working based on Medieval system. Some characters/nobles prefer to be address by their titles unless stated otherwise, Lords, Ladies, Sir, Dames, Duke, as some of them may find offence. My characters are fine with you addressing them informally. Is this your first time playing this game?)
May Ketchum, Priestess of The Path Of Chivalry (Lord)
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Letter from Piers Beaumont (6 days, 4 hours ago)
Lady Ketchum,
I have spoken already with the honorable Count of Grentzen, and he has told me he has no need of a knight at the moment. I would greatly appreciate whatever aid you might lend me in finding a liege. I can gladly wait to become the city knight of Alebad, if it would best serve the cause of the realm.
If I have given offense to any of the honorable Lords of Oritolon, I do wish to sincerely apologize; it was not my intent to slight them in any way. I am of noble birth, but sadly lacking in the intricacies of court life. I appreciate your fair warnings.
(Out of Character: I've read that, and in fact it's partly why I joined the game; didn't realize I'd already slipped up on that though. And yes, it is my first time playing this game, but not my first time RPing by any means. Thanks for the welcome.)
Piers Beaumont (Noble)
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Letter from May Ketchum (6 days, 2 hours ago)
(Personal message to Piers Beaumont)
Sir Piers,
You did not slip up on anything. Just a friendly reminder because there are a couple other nobles who we do not know, may find it an offense. As I am a Path of Chivalry Priestess, I have no income at all. I trust my brother Ash able to help you fund and help pay your men at the moment.
Do ask the whole realm should you need any army order. As order in the realm is given worldwide, rather than inside an army(from which your liege or lord need assign you to an army).
May Ketchum, Priestess of The Path Of Chivalry (Lord)
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Report from May Ketchum (17 hours, 57 minutes ago)
Message sent to all students in the realm (1 recipients)
Sir Piers,
Here's some manual instruction leftover at our library for your reference.
Hope you make full use of it. Some of the things may appear outdated, you can ask if you have any questions.
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Main_Page
May Ketchum, Priestess of The Path Of Chivalry (Lord)
Hmm, suddenly I feel becoming Mentor is one priceless experience and I would not like this Mentor Feature to be removed. I have personally guide a few new players myself in the past and present, so I think I can speak from Mentors perspective.
See my last post. Until we make this become more "user friendly", it would be nice if we maintain Mentor Feature as of now. As the new players do make full use of the Students Feature and Mentor Feature :)
We are not doing away with the idea of guiding new players. But we want to remove mentor and student as classes and open things up to a wider audience.
Being a mentor is draining. Once had a guy who was very enthusiastic, asked lots of questions, seemed really into the game. At the end of it he thanked me for helping him so much. Twenty minutes later he deleted the character. Kinda took the shine off being a mentor for me. Especially when the next half a dozen new characters either deleted after a couple of lessons or ignored me completely.
Quote from: Velax on April 17, 2012, 09:43:12 AM
Being a mentor is draining. Once had a guy who was very enthusiastic, asked lots of questions, seemed really into the game. At the end of it he thanked me for helping him so much. Twenty minutes later he deleted the character. Kinda took the shine off being a mentor for me. Especially when the next half a dozen new characters either deleted after a couple of lessons or ignored me completely.
Velax, I agree with you on this part. Being Mentor is draining, the incentive is few, if any student reward you with mentor points. Often we end up frustrated that we have given some of our time to train the new characters and they end up deleting their characters due to various other factors that out of our control. Perhaps considering give Mentors extra incentive as the characters usually volunteer themselves to do the service;
community service if there is 1 word for it ;)
Tom, I see. Doing away with Mentor and Student classes is good with me 8)
Basically, we need some changes to the message system that are already in progress and then we can set it up.
I don't want to unnecessarily reopen this thread, but I think the entire discussion is missing one crucial thing. I've had my share of being a mentor and the reoccuring matter is explaining the game to new players (surprise). This is what made the mentor-class unbearable after a while. You repeat yourself every single time a new player joins. It would be much easier if, at least for the basics, they were automatically redirected upon joining Battlemaster to a page that explains the basics of the game. Yes, this already exists in some form, but it needs to be worked out more. I don't know how... but I know that many new players either don't get to that page, or don't learn anything from it.
This being said, whatever system you implement ingame (and the continent-wide guild idea is good except for the notion of complete OOC-abuse), you will get stuck with the fact that you still NEED players willing to, time after time again, explain the game entirely to new players. It's fun the first 5 times, but once you notice how little new players appreciate your work and how little the reward for your work is, you think "to hell with this" and go do something else, like complain that the player base is shrinking. ;)
Some more things that, I believe, might help new players;
- A "Let's Play Battlemaster" video on youtube, preferably neatly worked into the main page of Battlemaster for all potential players to watch. Doesn't have to be long. Between 5 and 10 minutes. If someone feels like doing so, a longer version can be made as well. This can help new players understand the game and, you never know, recruit a few wandering souls on the internet.
- I'm still a fan of a special "place" for newbies to start playing where they can get easily acquainted with the game. Right now they're dropped in the middle of everything and often are lost after the first few minutes. I've suggested a newbie-mentor continent before but I understand that might be too much work.
- Facilitate the access to our IRC-channels. The reception of new players is often good and activity is generally high. Nowadays there are plenty of one-click in-browers IRC-applications that will get you in #battlemaster.
Most of that can be developed by players, and I would gladly support any such effort, but I can't run it. Do you want to start a forum topic or two to get people interested to make such a thing? I'd be willing to support it, for example by handing out free goodies and some other recognition to the winner of a video contest. I'm not sure BM is so well-suited for a video presentation, but I'm almost certain someone can prove me wrong. Not by discussion, but by making one.
Same for the other ideas. There is plenty of space on the Wiki for a newbie introduction and there already are at least two. But they can be updated, improved, made more accessible with images and so forth. Someone needs to do it.
I've been working on a general newbie-guide on the wiki for a while... well, I used to work on it. I got pretty far but then life caught up with me and I let it rest. I won't have time to continue the work on it right now, but I will have in about one-and-a-half month. For the video: I had been speaking about that with Lilwolf once and we almost got to the point of making one, but again, life caught up with me and I let it slip.
Making a few forum topics left and right is something that doesn't require much of my time, and I'll be sure to do that. Preferably today. Haven't been posting on the forum for over half a year though so I might have to read up. It's good that you're willing to hand out goodies to people that deliver results. Do you have any specific rewards in mind? We could host a competition for a video and take it from there. I think, for a wiki-guide, you will need to hand out rewards to more than one person, as it is near to impossible to make a decent starting guide all by yourself.
A Let's Play video explaining how BattleMaster works would need to include a prominent real-world clock, and be recorded in multiple sessions over at least a day. Better would be two or three, so as to show a few different turn-change actions.
I know that recent versions of Mac OS X include, in Quicktime Player, native capability for recording the screen, and it will let you speak a voiceover as you're doing it. No idea what's required to do that on Windows.
I don't have time to do something like this right now, but I'd be happy to give someone pointers on how.
Make that several days, so you can show people how the game truly works. There are days that practically nothing happens in Battlemaster. It might also be best to "time" that videoclip with, say, a military campaign.
I think fraps can help people with Windows (such as myself).
Make it look interesting if you can ;) Make a video in a realm at war not some peaceful realm somewhere where nobody talks.
If you want to make it perfect, everyone in the competition could record the same time period. Maybe we get the same war from a few different perspectives. Wouldn't that be incredibly cool?
As for stuff - I've not really given that too much thought. Goodies are always easy, as are free copies of the e-book. I'd love to have some more ideas, but they should be BM-related.
I think maybe two let's plays should be made - one for more long-term stuff, but also one for just the first turn itself, where I am sure a lot of players just drop the game.
Well, if we are cutting off the mentors, will students been cut too?