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BattleMaster => Helpline => Topic started by: Chenier on March 03, 2012, 06:24:34 AM

Title: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Chenier on March 03, 2012, 06:24:34 AM
QuoteThe locals question the war against Fwuvoghor.

Is this BT-specific for the invasion? 'Cause if not, then from a gameplay prespective, I really don't see why we have this. Most realms seem to have trouble getting wars, it doesn't feel to me like they should be punished for such endeavors.
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: fodder on March 03, 2012, 08:00:33 AM
would be based on sympathy stat won't it... ?
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Sypher on March 03, 2012, 08:32:16 AM
Yeah it seems to be based on sympathy and causes messages when there is a mismatch between sympathy towards a realm and your diplomacy. So on Dwilight, Solaria gets messages like this one:
The local population strongly objects to the war on Pian en Luries.

In Fronen we get messages like these:
The locals do not understand how you can be allied with Melhed.
There are loud protests against your alliance with Thalmarkin.


Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Shizzle on March 03, 2012, 10:16:41 AM
Silly peasants :)
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Chenier on March 03, 2012, 03:58:09 PM
Yea, I get that it's based on sympathy, which is why I go as an ambassador to fix this. And I get how unwanted alliances can be good in a way (though I don't quite like the idea of peasants determining our diplomacy), but them disliking a war?

That's just completely counter-productive to our efforts to increase the number of wars. Such messages, regardless of how marginal the impacts may be, have a psychological effect on the players which really dissuades war.
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: fodder on March 03, 2012, 04:19:01 PM
does that region like riombara btw? could be an issue if it hates rio but likes the new realm seceded from it?
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Vellos on March 03, 2012, 05:16:06 PM
Fwuvoghor seceded?

LOL! My departure was useful then, I suppose.
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Telrunya on March 03, 2012, 05:22:18 PM
For a few Nobles it was, yes :P
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Chenier on March 03, 2012, 05:25:22 PM
Quote from: fodder on March 03, 2012, 04:19:01 PM
does that region like riombara btw? could be an issue if it hates rio but likes the new realm seceded from it?

No,just Fwuvoghor. I haven't noticed any protests about war against Rio, as I did make sure to lower sympathy a while ago.

I'm not quite sure where they got this sympathy from.
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: fodder on March 03, 2012, 07:53:05 PM
perhaps instead of using parent realm's sympathy it goes to neutral or something default like (which should probably not be high..)? unless there's a lot of alluran followers and for some reason.. realm formed by prophet is liked by all followers?
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Chenier on March 03, 2012, 10:58:18 PM
Quote from: fodder on March 03, 2012, 07:53:05 PM
perhaps instead of using parent realm's sympathy it goes to neutral or something default like (which should probably not be high..)? unless there's a lot of alluran followers and for some reason.. realm formed by prophet is liked by all followers?

I don't know what it uses, but it doesn't appear to be consistent for all regions.
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Psyche on March 04, 2012, 04:50:20 AM
It would make sense for colonies to have sympathies in line with the parent realm, but I think all new realms get new neutral sympathies at the moment.

Though, it would be bad ass if the religion were to influence it.  I would assume you would need yo implement state religions for that, though.  As cool as that sounds to me though, I THINK that's an already proposed and rejected idea.
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Chenier on March 04, 2012, 05:04:16 PM
Quote from: Psyche on March 04, 2012, 04:50:20 AM
It would make sense for colonies to have sympathies in line with the parent realm, but I think all new realms get new neutral sympathies at the moment.

Though, it would be bad ass if the religion were to influence it.  I would assume you would need yo implement state religions for that, though.  As cool as that sounds to me though, I THINK that's an already proposed and rejected idea.

I agree it would be cool, but I cannot imagine how hellish it would be to code.

As for how the current system works, I have no idea. It neither seems to default the same in every region nor use the parent realm's. Random, maybe?
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Indirik on March 04, 2012, 09:22:27 PM
It wouldn't be that hard. Tim and I actually worked something out once that would adjust sympathies of regions to other realms, based on the predominant religion present each region, and the official views toward that religion. This was back when Westmoor and Ibladesh were federated, while the predominant religion in each realm considered the other religion to be evil. So, if Westmoor's regions followed CoH, and Ibladesh's followed CoI, then Westmoor's peasants should have an overall negative attitude toward Ibladesh, and resist being allied/federated to them. Given the information that is already available to the game, it's not hard to do. Tim whipped up a script to show it all in table form. From there it's just a matter of determining the magnitude of the effect desire.
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Penchant on March 04, 2012, 09:41:38 PM
It would be great because it would make priests/religion more powerful if they are involved in diplomacy.
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Draco Tanos on March 04, 2012, 10:14:46 PM
I like it.
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Perth on March 04, 2012, 11:24:24 PM
Quote from: Indirik on March 04, 2012, 09:22:27 PM
It wouldn't be that hard. Tim and I actually worked something out once that would adjust sympathies of regions to other realms, based on the predominant religion present each region, and the official views toward that religion. This was back when Westmoor and Ibladesh were federated, while the predominant religion in each realm considered the other religion to be evil. So, if Westmoor's regions followed CoH, and Ibladesh's followed CoI, then Westmoor's peasants should have an overall negative attitude toward Ibladesh, and resist being allied/federated to them. Given the information that is already available to the game, it's not hard to do. Tim whipped up a script to show it all in table form. From there it's just a matter of determining the magnitude of the effect desire.

Yes please!
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Chenier on March 05, 2012, 04:12:32 AM
Quote from: Indirik on March 04, 2012, 09:22:27 PM
It wouldn't be that hard. Tim and I actually worked something out once that would adjust sympathies of regions to other realms, based on the predominant religion present each region, and the official views toward that religion. This was back when Westmoor and Ibladesh were federated, while the predominant religion in each realm considered the other religion to be evil. So, if Westmoor's regions followed CoH, and Ibladesh's followed CoI, then Westmoor's peasants should have an overall negative attitude toward Ibladesh, and resist being allied/federated to them. Given the information that is already available to the game, it's not hard to do. Tim whipped up a script to show it all in table form. From there it's just a matter of determining the magnitude of the effect desire.

When you put it that way, then I guess it doesn't sound all that hard. What to do of pagans, though? And basing it on religion only would both seem abusable and non-representative (The realm on Evilstani used to loot our lands all the time, but hey, New Evilstani was just formed, and we had converted a lot of their peasants, so they must be great guys!).
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Indirik on March 05, 2012, 04:33:39 AM
The way I envisioned it was not that this would replace any existing system. Everything that happens now would stay there. This would be an additional layer on top of that. It also was not designed specifically to address the issue of newly formed realms.
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: Vellos on March 05, 2012, 05:41:28 AM
I like this idea very much.
Title: Re: Too Much Peace replaced by... Too Much War?
Post by: JPierreD on March 06, 2012, 01:51:54 AM
Yup, very good.