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BattleMaster => Locals => Far East Island => Topic started by: Longmane on March 27, 2011, 03:42:18 PM
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I'm wondering just what the thoughts are concerning the scenario of the FEI being invaded, (and also how it would deal with taking part in a crusade come to that) and hope people look at it not just from the point of view of available manpower etc, but also taking into consideration all the myriad relationships existing on the continent, ie could this realm/family ever work with that realm/family because of long term issues etc.
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Who knows. What we probably know is that we will never actually face that situation.
Although, it should be mentioned that the 4th Inv might have been a bit more "fair" with the limited resources thing.
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I'm wondering just what the thoughts are concerning the scenario of the FEI being invaded, (and also how it would deal with taking part in a crusade come to that) and hope people look at it not just from the point of view of available manpower etc, but also taking into consideration all the myriad relationships existing on the continent, ie could this realm/family ever work with that realm/family because of long term issues etc.
I'd say it's fairly likely. That's the less contentious part of the Order of the Hawk's mandate, after all, and of the two realms who did not sign on to the Order one is a bloody wreck and the other would likely join the rest immediately if faced with a real Invasion. There would likely be some friction, and several people would have to play nice, but I'm pretty sure they would, surprisingly enough.
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My own thoughts run along the lines of while making complete sense for everyone to put aside old grudges, animosity's and mistrusts etc, and likewise resist any thoughts of attempting gain by it themselves, there's always the chance someone couldn't stop themselves from thinking otherwise, and so risking ending up with a domino effect.
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It's possible, but I'd like to put it to the test!
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From a surface perspective, it seemed like in the actual case, the temptation to one-up rivals/enemies was too great. Meridian Republic comes to mind, but I have a feeling people who were there like Lefanis will oppose that.
While characters are unique, sometimes motives can get complex. I fully recognize that characters are unique, but this is all just hypothetical talk, so I wonder who would have tendencies to subvert? For example, several members of the Lefanis family have been known to undertake selfish actions such as rebellions and secessions. The Vanimedle' family has in recent memory done in Thulsoma and probably Arcachon in the near future, and OOCly professed to finding that fun or something. The Himoura characters that I have met or heard about with the exception of Thain, have all been seemingly obsessed with daimons, or at least the (possibly misled) perception that being associated with daimons is equivalent to being able to indulge in meaningless violence and other vices of uncontrolled passion.
Again, I must emphasize that the three examples I picked were only those that struck out in recent memory, and in no way should be taken as indicative of the player, nor generalized to the family. I am only speaking about the characters I have heard about or observed, as well as things recorded for each individual character. This means that there is no reason every Lefanis would rebel or secede, or for every Vanimedle' to make a realm die, or for every Himoura to seek bloodshed and damnation, or for every Artemesia to be insignificant (ok, I don't know about the last one).
Now it just so happens that Lefanis and Vanimedle' are in Arcachon, and may have a fairly large presence there. Regardless of any histories, they might seriously consider letting some inhumans run amok through Arcaea and Ohnar West to soften them up for revenge. Thain Himoura happens to be the King of C'thonia, although past RPs seem to indicate that he is anti-daimon, so there's some hope there.
Meanwhile PoZ will likely sit back and watch the battles, and will finally jump off the fence when the victor is clear and any involvement by them would make no difference.
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From the perspective of wanting to see how it would all pan out, ie would the realms be able /want unite fairly quickly themselves? or would it need someone/some realm take the lead, would the island almost fall, be beset by doubts, mistrust and betrayal etc, the idea of an Invasion is mouth watering, yet from the perspective of needing fight a bitter and very hard fought war, with realms perhaps succumbing and things changed forever, it's....Exhilarating ;D
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From the perspective of wanting to see how it would all pan out, ie would the realms be able /want unite fairly quickly themselves? or would it need someone/some realm take the lead, would the island almost fall, be beset by doubts, mistrust and betrayal etc, the idea of an Invasion is mouth watering, yet from the perspective of needing fight a bitter and very hard fought war, with realms perhaps succumbing and things changed forever, it's....Exhilarating ;D
(grins) And that's why the Order of the Hawk has very specific rules on how it works. Whichever realm got Invaded first gets the lead. And yes, when push comes to shove people might not actually agree, but even Jenred and Xarnelf were willing to work together to deal with the issues around the Book of Promises in Nahad. Arcachon might well not come help Arcaea, but unless the Invasion started in the next month or two what Arcachon would or wouldn't do is (probably) moot.
Let's put it this way: Arcaea, Cathay, Zonasa, and Kindara I'd say with a fair degree of certainty would fall in with no trouble. C'thonia I'm pretty sure would, Thain's the right kind of zealot. I /believe/ Aenilia would. Ohnar West is hard to say but if all else fails I think the individual Dukes could be convinced.
On a completely unrelated note, Longmane, weren't you the guy who wanted to ask Jenred/me some questions for a newspaper, or am I getting my people mixed up?
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On a completely unrelated note, Longmane, weren't you the guy who wanted to ask Jenred/me some questions for a newspaper, or am I getting my people mixed up?
Indeed yes, as while circumstances have presently conspired to prevent Elk from doing so, ( OOC work pressures that likewise have also prevented me finishing work on my feature request, one that's now suddenly become two lol) I nevertheless when able still intend writing a concise account of the last war.
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I dont know the ins and outs of the Order since it wasnt going to be negotiated until the Fall of Soliferum anyway, but I do remember it being started for a reasons similar to this so I'd hope it'd work as intended.
That said, I would love for a daimon/undead/monster invasion of FEI if only because I keep missing my chance to participate in the actual ones. And besides, turning FEI head over heels and shaking the foundations of the long established realms would be great fun.
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Hey, the Meridian Republic did have people who started it with the intention that those lands ravaged by the monsters could be saved through human cunning and diplomacy rather than brute force -- of course the RoF remnants who joined it clearly wanted to restore themselves to their former position.
I got out of it because, from an RP perspective, my character felt incredibly betrayed by the course of events from there... and once again for anyone saying that MR was particularly opportunistic, I must only point your gaze over to the actions of Enweil, Avalon and Bara'Khur, who expended most of their resources trying to attack the newly forged Republic along with the daimons, and frustrate the losing battle that Hetland had against the invaders.
As for the FEI itself, I think everyone would fall in perfectly. There's too many noble leaders in each realm who would love to gallantly slay daimons and smile about petty grievances to do otherwise. Seriously, not enough long standing hatreds to get in the way of it. If Soliferum had survived then the mistrust there could have easily fractured things, but they didn't survive. As for Arcachon eyeing Arcaea's territories... Arcaea's mandate against savage looting might get in the way of eliminating them, but several successful invasions of the Dark Isle have not ended yet. Perhaps if the invasion occured right now...
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of course the RoF remnants who joined it clearly wanted to restore themselves to their former position.
And that was pretty much the reason it was destroyed quickly after, led by the Noble who seceded in the first place ;)
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I think it would depend on what realm got invaded first. If the invaders started in Arcaea, I'd venture to say there are a lot of people who would be very slow to respond, hoping that Arcaea would take a mortal wound before anyone could show up to help. And don't rule out the importance of personal grudges in how people would act.
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I think it would depend on what realm got invaded first. If the invaders started in Arcaea, I'd venture to say there are a lot of people who would be very slow to respond, hoping that Arcaea would take a mortal wound before anyone could show up to help. And don't rule out the importance of personal grudges in how people would act.
Heh. Possible, though I'd hope that people would think twice about letting Invaders get a foothold. Arcaea's the one exception though, I think any other realm getting Invaded first would get (relatively) quick support.
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Arcachon? Haha, yeah, ok. Monsters/undead/don't think daimons would appear anywhere but on BT and Dwi but whatever, can have that little island for themselves. It won't bother anyone except maybe Arcaea.
PoZ? Heh, I'd like to see them actually fight.
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Haha I think folk might be pleasantly surprised just how well, and how eagerly ;), PoZ will fight once given the opportunity now they have a war hungry Vikingr General in charge of their army 8)
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Go on, then. Invade Kindara. We need a good fight down in the south. We're getting fat and lazy. ;)
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Just having a leader with the will to fight isn't enough. I've seen it many times: A realm that doesn't fight for a long period of time has a very hard time getting back into the swing of active warfare. They will usually get their butts kicked around the field several times before they wake up.
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It'll be Elk himself kicking their butts around the field if there's any slacking :), but since they took to that last escapade like ducks to water, and indeed took all my persuasion to stop many of our troop leaders want visit Azros for a bit of partying, I don't think they'd have any trouble firing themselves up.
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The point made earlier by Indirik has reminded me of another problem some of the realms might encounter, in that if they have remained largely unrivaled military wise for some time, ie Arcaea of course being the best example, it might cause difficulties coming to terms with fighting a war in which you can't simply really on your own numerical strength etc alone to win out, with Soliferum itself being a point in fact, being as until it's war with the alliance we had hardly ever gone up against someone who could match our military might, and likewise found ourselves all at sea for weeks.
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Enweil mostly failed badly against Monsters in the initial wave. Of course, the mortality might have contributed, but it's still debatable how much of a difference, if at all, that would have made if no non-heroes died.
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The point made earlier by Indirik has reminded me of another problem some of the realms might encounter, in that if they have remained largely unrivaled military wise for some time, ie Arcaea of course being the best example, it might cause difficulties coming to terms with fighting a war in which you can't simply really on your own numerical strength etc alone to win out, with Soliferum itself being a point in fact, being as until it's war with the alliance we had hardly ever gone up against someone who could match our military might, and likewise found ourselves all at sea for weeks.
Indeed, it's a large problem. Especially when the military commands are filled with political candidates who were made for internal reasons rather than giving them to the best candidates (which I've often seen).
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We're getting fat and lazy. ;)
Not all of us.
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Was referring to my Kindara character, Gab. ;)
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The point made earlier by Indirik has reminded me of another problem some of the realms might encounter, in that if they have remained largely unrivaled military wise for some time, ie Arcaea of course being the best example, it might cause difficulties coming to terms with fighting a war in which you can't simply really on your own numerical strength etc alone to win out, with Soliferum itself being a point in fact, being as until it's war with the alliance we had hardly ever gone up against someone who could match our military might, and likewise found ourselves all at sea for weeks.
Inactivity of any kind will have problems. Inactivity in terms of fighting at all often results in people being sloppy about orders, nobles missing orders, marshal's sending out orders that are not clear or that are too late for everyone to respond to.
A realm could be fighting a lot, and still be inactive in someways. Like you said Soliferum was inactive in the context of fighting in something resembling a balanced war. That meant all the considerations and necessary though processes for such an activity were out of practice. There are many other examples where a realm has simply not participated in a particular facet of the game, which might bite them later. For example powerful realms often get into the habit of sloppy diplomacy, counting on their power to cower everyone. Eventually another powerful realm or coalition will form to counter them, and by that stage they will struggle to get diplomatic allies.
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I'd actually call it a coin toss. There are handful of realms which would do very little, but I actually wouldn't be suprised that some of the less skilled realms might get tutoring from some of the more battle-hardened groups. Aenelia, Arcaea, OW, and Arcachon (while it's around) all have military leaders of some skill they could call upon in that sort of scenario, even if those leaders aren't in their realm at present.
There is a lot more lower-ranked correspondance in FEI then BT, at least up north, and that makes a difference.
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PoZ actually get involved? Only if there was territory to be had with little or no fight of course.
Most of the rest of the realms I can see uniting fairly quickly. Cathay, C'thonia, Kindara, GA, Arcaea for sure.
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PoZ are involved in the war now and there's no chance for territorial gain for them. Unless there's something I don't know (certainly possible).
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Speaking as someone who was a Ruler for almost the whole Fourth Invasion uniting against an invasion is suprisingly easy. Even though BT was in the middle of a obscenely huge and bitter war, we managed to unite without an awful lot of trouble. Staying united is the problem (from memory our united front lasted about three days). When fifty thousand CS armies start roaming around, people's willingness to fight to the death in order to delay the enemy reaching other realms starts to flag. There's also the constant temptation to keep a foot in both camps if you're not under direct attack; only moving to help slowly, pulling back quickly to avoid actually fighting.
I actually felt that was one of the most interesting aspects of the invasion. We (more or less) behaved the way a real bunch of feuding medieval states would.
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Hey, the Meridian Republic did have people who started it with the intention that those lands ravaged by the monsters could be saved through human cunning and diplomacy rather than brute force -- of course the RoF remnants who joined it clearly wanted to restore themselves to their former position.
I got out of it because, from an RP perspective, my character felt incredibly betrayed by the course of events from there... and once again for anyone saying that MR was particularly opportunistic, I must only point your gaze over to the actions of Enweil, Avalon and Bara'Khur, who expended most of their resources trying to attack the newly forged Republic along with the daimons, and frustrate the losing battle that Hetland had against the invaders.
You had a Lefanis. Who was contanstly trying to get Rio to ally the monsters against Enweil.
If that wasn't enough, you also had a bunch of nobles who had refused to ally with Enweil against the monsters, preferring an alliance with the monsters.
To then move your capital to an Enweilian city.
With the plan of expanding your realm, as per the deal with the monsters, into Avalon's lands.
Expanding in the wake of the monsters' army.
That you fed with your own peasants.
In the process, recreating a realm we were all happy to have exterminated.
Now, can you think of one good reason why we wouldn't have declared war on MR?