Mariah or w/e just went on a rampage and kicked everyone out.
This is why inter-temple actions should require you to spend at least 1~2 hours to prevent people from going crazy.
But I don't mind seeing SA die off. Sure it will undo years of work but not many people are really doing much work to keep it alive anyway. Let it die and make a room for paganism. TIME TO WORSHIP THOR!
ARES! God of War!
Time to Kneel before the great war pony and kill all.
I started something called "The Order of the Balance" as a secret society.
It's entire reason for existing is to find out the people who want to destroy the continent, and kill them.
Maybe someone could do a religion with something like that?
You are doing it wrong. You want to create a guild that actively seeks and destroys people who want peace! Turn them into pieces!
Entirely possible that peace is wrong for the continent no?
Quote from: Bronnen on July 12, 2016, 04:36:55 AM
ARES! God of War!
I remember seeing Ares name as a character name. Let worship him!
Yay! Finishing what Jonsu started. :3
Quote from: Ketchum on July 12, 2016, 05:17:52 AM
I remember seeing Ares name as a character name. Let worship him!
Brock's going to worship a Perdanite? :o
Im a bit sad that SA didn't go out with a bang but instead boredom. Thats what happens when you kick out all the firebrands. You get vanilla.
Quote from: Glaumring the Fox on July 12, 2016, 06:03:57 AM
Im a bit sad that SA didn't go out with a bang but instead boredom. Thats what happens when you kick out all the firebrands. You get vanilla.
ESA isn't doing much better.
Quote from: GundamMerc on July 12, 2016, 06:14:57 AM
ESA isn't doing much better.
I thought you were doing something with a new war. That's your choice. ESA has done championed something different its entire history. If it suddenly gives up now, thats on all the players within it. Forming a new organization with a new name won't change anything if you just include the same people you claim aren't doing anything. And even be a setback as you have to recover all the progress made thus far to get to the point ESA is now.
Quote from: Vita on July 12, 2016, 06:27:34 AM
I thought you were doing something with a new war. That's your choice. ESA has done championed something different its entire history. If it suddenly gives up now, thats on all the players within it. Forming a new organization with a new name won't change anything if you just include the same people you claim aren't doing anything. And even be a setback as you have to recover all the progress made thus far to get to the point ESA is now.
That's if we try to do the same thing.
Again? There really needs to be a safeguard here. Both times this has happened it reeked of griefing.
Well, once I'm done having fun with Barrett, Turin will just have to come out of seclusion and revive it. Of course his sect will be ultra-fundamentalist and expansionist.
Side note I've always wondered, did his departure caused any sort of stir?
Quote from: pcw27 on July 16, 2016, 09:01:30 PM
Again? There really needs to be a safeguard here. Both times this has happened it reeked of griefing.
Well, once I'm done having fun with Barrett, Turin will just have to come out of seclusion and revive it. Of course his sect will be ultra-fundamentalist and expansionist.
Side note I've always wondered, did his departure caused any sort of stir?
I don't think so?
Quote from: pcw27 on July 16, 2016, 09:01:30 PM
Again? There really needs to be a safeguard here. Both times this has happened it reeked of griefing.
We had a dev discussion the day it happened, and concluded that religions need the same defense realms have against Judges doing similar (it just requires a bit different coding work to make it work with guilds, not realms). You cannot kick more than 1/5th of religion in a two-day period. How long it takes for someone to implement, I can't tell you. But I can tell you that for every bug and approved feature, the best way for it to not be forgotten is to put it on the bugtracker. Which I know you are already good at, but public forum with other readers and all.
Just as an FYI, there was a completely in character reason why she did what she did. She went on a pilgrimage to commune with the stars, and they informed her that they had been corrupted by an entity seeking to destroy them, and as their last act she was told to burn what was left and start something new. So she did. No griefing.
Quote from: Bronnen on July 18, 2016, 02:40:35 AM
Just as an FYI, there was a completely in character reason why she did what she did. She went on a pilgrimage to commune with the stars, and they informed her that they had been corrupted by an entity seeking to destroy them, and as their last act she was told to burn what was left and start something new. So she did. No griefing.
And now we think Mariah went crazy. Talking to things that aren't there ;D
And that's kinda the point lol. She believes that the entities speaking to her are real and that she has been chosen to save the world by purging all those who are corrupt.
Quote from: Vita on July 12, 2016, 05:55:44 AM
Brock's going to worship a Perdanite? :o
My other character also been seeing Ares too in his realm. So Ash Ketchum that used to worship Pokemon, now has to worship Ares? :P
Quote from: Vita on July 17, 2016, 03:57:58 AM
We had a dev discussion the day it happened, and concluded that religions need the same defense realms have against Judges doing similar (it just requires a bit different coding work to make it work with guilds, not realms). You cannot kick more than 1/5th of religion in a two-day period. How long it takes for someone to implement, I can't tell you. But I can tell you that for every bug and approved feature, the best way for it to not be forgotten is to put it on the bugtracker. Which I know you are already good at, but public forum with other readers and all.
Anyway I disgress from the topic. Let me get back on track.
About this part. Hmmmm, so Judges can no longer ban any would-be rebels in two-day period?Reminded me of an itchy finger Judge who banned half the realm including my character. Of course half the realm means almost everyone rebel :D
Quote from: Bronnen on July 18, 2016, 02:40:35 AM
Just as an FYI, there was a completely in character reason why she did what she did. She went on a pilgrimage to commune with the stars, and they informed her that they had been corrupted by an entity seeking to destroy them, and as their last act she was told to burn what was left and start something new. So she did. No griefing.
Good to know there is Roleplay. So now SA wont end. Mariah has become corrupted Light according to SA ::)
Quote from: Bronnen on July 18, 2016, 02:59:33 AM
And that's kinda the point lol. She believes that the entities speaking to her are real and that she has been chosen to save the world by purging all those who are corrupt.
Right... What corrupt person was even left in SA. Last time I was there people had gotten so blasé about the whole thing and the church had so little influence that it seemed no one cared to be corrupt because there was no power or influence to be seized anyway.
Quote from: pcw27 on July 27, 2016, 02:30:46 AM
Right... What corrupt person was even left in SA. Last time I was there people had gotten so blasé about the whole thing and the church had so little influence that it seemed no one cared to be corrupt because there was no power or influence to be seized anyway.
Which is a perfect reason to purge it. The followers are only going through the motions anymore, they don't have true faith.
Quote from: GundamMerc on July 27, 2016, 04:07:09 AM
Which is a perfect reason to purge it. The followers are only going through the motions anymore, they don't have true faith.
Then why not whip them into a frenzy and try and take back the holy land and only purge the people that wont go along with it?
Quote from: pcw27 on July 27, 2016, 06:41:53 AM
Then why not whip them into a frenzy and try and take back the holy land and only purge the people that wont go along with it?
Because those wanting to whip people into frenzies are divided into multiple religions themselves and thus would spend more time trying to get the tolerants of their religion to join them in frenzy against other religions than cooperate with frenzies of other faiths. But the result is some mixed, watered-down, tolerant-frenzy response.
Also, because people mostly do not care about holy land, or other roleplay background, unless their realm is affected. Ahem, *unless their realm is affected *militarily*. Places like Morek Empire make me sick for their complete character inconsistency with roleplay.
People in the various religious camps need to recognize that RP is co-operative and that even though you may think that your idea and play provides something that should motivate more of us, that other people do not. If religious leaders try to go beyond setting a background to my realm's culture and move into setting constrictions or prescriptions on my realm's policies I'm going to ignore them or use what I find helpful and ignore the rest.
In other words, we don't buy all that you're selling. Try reshaping your RP to be more interesting and helpful to us rather than wailing on why we won't play your way.
If religion acts that way, it is meaningless. The whole point of religion is to have a set of loyalties and restrictions that conflict with those in the realm.
I think there is a place for both. Religion needs to be cooperative enough to work with multiple realms, personal flavor roleplay etc. But at the same time, it does need core values it needs to stand for that, at times, generates conflicts. Religion should be supportive and helpful when you hold those values, but discipline when you do not. In my view, those values should be based on our OOC interests in maintaining an enjoyable playing atmosphere, not just IC theology-flavor.
It kinda bothers me that almost every single person just rejoined the SA and not a thing was said about it. It was just, "Oh, she went crazy and corrupt" when she literally stated (as an elder of the faith and light of the stars) that the stars were corrupted and had been taken over by a demonic influence.
It's the equivalent of the Pope saying "god is evil" and everyone just going, "meh, whatever".
I was hoping there would be some more roleplaying about it, but there was one, one letter sent to me from someone in the SA, and that was Helm.
Quote from: Bronnen on July 27, 2016, 05:15:35 PM
It kinda bothers me that almost every single person just rejoined the SA and not a thing was said about it. It was just, "Oh, she went crazy and corrupt" when she literally stated (as an elder of the faith and light of the stars) that the stars were corrupted and had been taken over by a demonic influence.
It's the equivalent of the Pope saying "god is evil" and everyone just going, "meh, whatever".
I was hoping there would be some more roleplaying about it, but there was one, one letter sent to me from someone in the SA, and that was Helm.
That's exactly how I felt with Seoras and ESA after Jonsu, Helm's secular-political reformation, Alaster going crazy etc. I recall both Constantine Meneldur and Mariah Greyson saying they were going to join ESA and help lead it and then suddenly 'back to rejoining SA and working with the establishment for months of nothing changing'.
Also, the Pope saying 'God is evil' would probably result in the Pope being considered as mentally ill, not Catholics suddenly disavowing the beliefs they've had their entire life, so I'm not surprised by that reaction to Mariah. Seoras with ESA went with a continuation of SA by 'we are the Second Church as prophesied by Mathurin'.
If I recall correctly, Mariah said she would join If the ESA followed the prophet directly and had only Mathurin as the sole prophet, which whoever I spoke with disagreed to.
Though at that point I had kind of stopped caring about Battlemaster and was just going through the motions. I had a really long period of just playing the game without writing anything.
Quote from: Bronnen on July 27, 2016, 05:47:57 PM
If I recall correctly, Mariah said she would join If the ESA followed the prophet directly and had only Mathurin as the sole prophet, which whoever I spoke with disagreed to.
Though at that point I had kind of stopped caring about Battlemaster and was just going through the motions. I had a really long period of just playing the game without writing anything.
Ah yes, 'sole' would've been an issue. ESA follows Mathurin, but also holds Rabisu and Malus as prophets. Some within ESA hold Seoras as prophet. But there is nothing in Mathurin's words that proclaimed him the only prophet, that was only part of the corrupted political-establishment of SA after he departed. Even that SA does not follow Mathurin's teachings anymore, but Jonsu-Alaster-Helm corruption ;) Our view of prophethood is that a Prophet is acclaimed/recognized by the Church community, not self-declared or appointed by elders. In other words, it something that is earned by behavioral distinction of one's peers.
See, I really think thats a part of why we have different smaller groups and frustrated people, is people coming and going. So, for myself, I know I came after frustrated folks within both SA, Lurian, and Asylon/Bloodmoon corners, and I tried to work with elements of each where we were compatible first by reforming the existing and then founding ESA.
Meanwhile, some of those folks I came after were too frustrated with events that they either quit, pause, or were barely-engaged. Until finally I become frustrated enough with others not-engaging that I myself pause, barely-engage, and pause again.
And meanwhile to my disengagement, new players have come, old players have created new accounts, unpaused, or gotten more active, and are now frustrated with my disengagement, so that they try to reform institutions I've already tried to reform, and create institutions to do what I've already been doing with institutions created. No differently than me starting a new institution after there were already existing institutions, or having attempted reforming other existing institutions. And so we continue the cycle...
Quote from: Anaris on July 27, 2016, 04:34:34 PM
If religion acts that way, it is meaningless. The whole point of religion is to have a set of loyalties and restrictions that conflict with those in the realm.
Kind of difficult when the leaders of the religions are all lords or higher. Religion, from the start, has just been another tool for realms to pursue their own ambitions. If you really want religion to bring conflict to realms, make priests unable to hold any other titles, and give them the means to become powerful and influential in other ways. Make it a commoner class, even. Get some High Sparrows, rather than all the High Septons we have now.
Ut Trutina has a high sparrow
Quote from: Shulee on July 27, 2016, 04:01:37 PM
People in the various religious camps need to recognize that RP is co-operative and that even though you may think that your idea and play provides something that should motivate more of us, that other people do not. If religious leaders try to go beyond setting a background to my realm's culture and move into setting constrictions or prescriptions on my realm's policies I'm going to ignore them or use what I find helpful and ignore the rest.
In other words, we don't buy all that you're selling. Try reshaping your RP to be more interesting and helpful to us rather than wailing on why we won't play your way.
What you fail to realize is that while for you realm is the highest priority for others it is not. In SA for many years the religion was the highest priority. The church wasn't the tool of the theocracies, the theocracies were the tool of the church. It must have been a good system that people liked to play because when we did things that way the religion had hundreds of players and the game had much higher player density, without needing to depopulate huge swaths of the continent. I don't think it's fair or justified for you to characterize my complaints as merely a demand for my play style. I came to enjoy this play style during a time when it was popular throughout the game world. As it became less popular, the religion became less popular and the entire game along with it.
Quote from: Bronnen on July 27, 2016, 05:15:35 PM
It kinda bothers me that almost every single person just rejoined the SA and not a thing was said about it. It was just, "Oh, she went crazy and corrupt" when she literally stated (as an elder of the faith and light of the stars) that the stars were corrupted and had been taken over by a demonic influence.
It's the equivalent of the Pope saying "god is evil" and everyone just going, "meh, whatever".
I was hoping there would be some more roleplaying about it, but there was one, one letter sent to me from someone in the SA, and that was Helm.
Quote from: Vita on July 27, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Also, the Pope saying 'God is evil' would probably result in the Pope being considered as mentally ill, not Catholics suddenly disavowing the beliefs they've had their entire life, so I'm not surprised by that reaction to Mariah. Seoras with ESA went with a continuation of SA by 'we are the Second Church as prophesied by Mathurin'.
The Catholic Church has had some absolutely bat!@#$ crazy popes. If you're not familiar with it I'd suggest looking up "The Cadaver Synod".
Quote from: Vita on July 27, 2016, 06:02:44 PM
Ah yes, 'sole' would've been an issue. ESA follows Mathurin, but also holds Rabisu and Malus as prophets. Some within ESA hold Seoras as prophet. But there is nothing in Mathurin's words that proclaimed him the only prophet, that was only part of the corrupted political-establishment of SA after he departed. Even that SA does not follow Mathurin's teachings anymore, but Jonsu-Alaster-Helm corruption ;) Our view of prophethood is that a Prophet is acclaimed/recognized by the Church community, not self-declared or appointed by elders. In other words, it something that is earned by behavioral distinction of one's peers.
I don't believe there was ever an official declaration that Mathurin was the sole prophet. In fact in his own time he said there would be others. However he never acknowledged another prophet in his own lifetime and disavowed at least one heretic who claimed to be one so declaring a new prophet became a very controversial idea in SA. ESA treats it more like Sainthood.
I agree, your realm should not always be your highest cause, nor should religion always be. I tend to switch these things up between nobles.
Quote from: pcw27 on July 28, 2016, 08:45:18 AM
I don't believe there was ever an official declaration that Mathurin was the sole prophet. In fact in his own time he said there would be others. However he never acknowledged another prophet in his own lifetime and disavowed at least one heretic who claimed to be one so declaring a new prophet became a very controversial idea in SA. ESA treats it more like Sainthood.
No, not officially, just 'accepted' amongst everyone in SA for many many months/years now.
Seoras paid attention to *why* Mathurin disavowed another and in fact, uses *those very reasons* as why SA has fallen in corruption. Mathurin disavowed Allison's OA because it was a personal glorification of herself, no worthwhile teachings, a political Church. That didn't mean there weren't still faithful within it, but as a Church Elder Establishment, it had been used as a tool of the theocracies' political hegemony and not vice versa. And ESA has always been strongly opposed to any Prophet self-declaring as being a sign of 'self-glorification'. And focused upon church/community improvement via the religious teachings
I would say ESA's sainthood is much more the Venerated than the Prophets. Those are hero characters who have died in battle, not only of ESA depending on roleplay, but are given a 'holy day' for annual celebration and remember of their life, that we may benefit and learn from their experience. Though I got lazy and I don't think I added the most recent, Draco Dogsbody, who came back to life like Seoras did.
Quote from: Gabanus family on July 28, 2016, 09:18:42 AM
I agree, your realm should not always be your highest cause, nor should religion always be. I tend to switch these things up between nobles.
Precisely, and the conflict between the too motivations ads a lot of excitement.
Problem is that most people don't have those conflicts.
Nobles should be looking out for themselves first and foremost ;)
Quote from: Sacha on July 30, 2016, 12:20:23 AM
Nobles should be looking out for themselves first and foremost ;)
Well, there is the whole 'team game' aspect mentioned on the front page. But yes, seems many use 'team' as excuse to be bland.
Quote from: Sacha on July 30, 2016, 12:20:23 AM
Nobles should be looking out for themselves first and foremost ;)
And if you want to play it less extreme (team aspect and all) at least get different groups towards whom you hold loyalties which can conflict (realm and religion) but also loyalty to a specific person and when he clashes with the realm, so do you for instance. General is often a perfect example, but also your Lord/Duke etc.
I would have written something with Yven when it happened, why it had happened, etc. But from an IC view she was REALLY peeved off and wanted nothing to do with the rest of SA.