BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => BM General Discussion => Topic started by: Galvez on February 01, 2014, 07:35:56 PM
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You may have also noticed the increase in monster and undead spawns—and the spike today. These are but harbingers of things to come.
Well, only a small increase in monster and undead spawns. About 21.000 cs of rogues are currently in Barca. I assume other realms of Dwilight face similar problems, which will presumable create a period of peace because all realms will be on monster hunting duty.
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My city on BT just got hit by 3k CS monsters. Haven't seen a group that large in awhile.
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Well, at least our cities have walls and militia. However, all the monsters have spawn in the rural and woodland regions. We need to go hunting.
One region alone has a concentrated force of 6.000 cs of rogues.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rqsiWmkBpM
^My initial reaction
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How convenient that this appears right after cease-fires have been signed between the major combatants and Niselur.
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How convenient that this appears right after cease-fires have been signed between the major combatants and Niselur.
The timing of this announcement was determined nearly a month in advance by the dev team. It has nothing to do with any in-game events of any kind. Any insinuation of such will be met with extreme disapproval.
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Sorry, I do not mean that statement to be imply as if though the Devs where going out of their way to hurt or hinder us in some way. Just poorly worded in that we got more work to do around in Niselur then I thought we were going to have.
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Yes! rogue invasion!
Thanks for the announcement Tim.
Finally the human realms of BM are going to suffer! They are going to get what they deserve!
'Muhahaha' :D
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Finally the human realms of BM are going to suffer! They are going to get what they deserve!
'Muhahaha' :D
Well it's more like finally BT isn't alone in the pain!
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The timing of this announcement was determined nearly a month in advance by the dev team. It has nothing to do with any in-game events of any kind. Any insinuation of such will be met with extreme disapproval.
Lies! I know that you planned it to come just after I changed my character to a priest :P ::)
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Lies! I know that you planned it to come just after I changed my character to a priest :P ::)
Have fun. The rogues came just as I was getting bored of the priest class. Now is time for battle-pope.
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Yes! rogue invasion!
Thanks for the announcement Tim.
Finally the human realms of BM are going to suffer! They are going to get what they deserve!
'Muhahaha' :D
So Sirion will not suffer?! ::)
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So Sirion will not suffer?! ::)
Bah, everyone knows that the talk of "elves" is just a bunch of malarkey. They just all got their heads caught in cheese-pulling machines!
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Bah, everyone knows that the talk of "elves" is just a bunch of malarkey. They just all got their heads caught in cheese-pulling machines!
I assumed it was just an initiation ritual to extend their ears, like the tribes that lip plates
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Think everyone is forgetting how high tech this game is. They were genetically modified!
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This entire idea is awesome.
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This entire idea is awesome.
Absolutely agree. This is the most fun I've had with the game for a while.
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I can only agree with above. Having something like this (though we dont really know what it is yet) is exactly what I hoped for and something that can make every corner of every island active and up on their toes again. Kudos!
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should have this as a yearly event! a lot of fun :d
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Have fun. The rogues came just as I was getting bored of the priest class. Now is time for battle-pope.
And here I just (re)started as a priest. Very sad :(
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So Sirion will not suffer?!
Sirion have something around 30-40k CS of undead and monsters. But that's ok, since we have a lot of regions to take care. And I don't think we will suffer... a lot. Erik can take care of his duchy almost alone with his CS.
We also have a referendum about how much nobles are elves... I believe we have less than 10 :)
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This entire idea is awesome.
It is nice to fight some monsters, but with 40.000 CS of rogues in your realm, it takes away everyone's possibility to fight actual wars.
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It is nice to fight some monsters, but with 40.000 CS of rogues in your realm, it takes away everyone's possibility to fight actual wars.
Plus if your realm dont have enough nobles and manpower to deal with 40k cs monsters its pretty much !@#$ed.
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It is nice to fight some monsters, but with 40.000 CS of rogues in your realm, it takes away everyone's possibility to fight actual wars.
If this is going anywhere near the normal BT invasions you will have plenty enough of "actual war". Perdan will look like small potatoes.
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I love how this was preceded by the rebalance. Using the carrot AND the stick.
Seriously, I appreciate the work put into this. I missed the invasions so I'm looking forward to seeing this.
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What we are seeing in East Continent is a fairy tale compared to what we are facing in Dwilight.
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What we are seeing in East Continent is a fairy tale compared to what we are facing in Dwilight.
Eduardo, this was just the start if I read the announcement correctly, let's see what comes after this first wave...
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BT is getting hit pretty hard. Our realm (Caelum) is getting overrun. We've got 24K CS in our regions now. Watersdown, that just went rogue, had over 5K more. That's only counting the 7 regions that have rogues in them, too. :o
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Aye - Riombara is 'relatively well off' with 45.000cs. Down to 39.000 right now.
The good thing is there was near instantaneous peace - boy, did we humans learn that lesson...
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Nope, looks like everybody didnt learn that lesson :D
-Jaune
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Ar Agyr's in Tindle. Good for them, they come come fight our rogues while letting their own roam free. We don't even need to set up militia to fend off northern looters now!
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The rogue invasion of Atamara is also manageable by the looks of it (compared to Dwilight). Does anyone want to weight in?
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I saw four groups, two were about 1400CS and the other two were around 500CS.
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Yes, Atamara seems very tame. Smaller groups, and less recurrence of groups appearing.
In contrast, Beluaterra seems to be about the same as Dwilight in circumstance.
To take a wild guess: rogue spawns were all increased by x amount (percentage) across all continents (the same on all). Because Beluaterra and Dwi already had higher base percentages (a guess), it went all out of whack.
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Yes, Atamara seems very tame. Smaller groups, and less recurrence of groups appearing.
In contrast, Beluaterra seems to be about the same as Dwilight in circumstance.
To take a wild guess: rogue spawns were all increased by x amount (percentage) across all continents (the same on all). Because Beluaterra and Dwi already had higher base percentages (a guess), it went all out of whack.
That... or Atamara's being sunk.
/rumour mill
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That... or Atamara's being sunk.
/rumour mill
How? Obviously the continents are going to be sunk by increasing the mass they have to support beyond their limits. Thus to be fair to all the rate of rogue spawns is proportional to the mass carrying capacity of the island in question.
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How? Obviously the continents are going to be sunk by increasing the mass they have to support beyond their limits. Thus to be fair to all the rate of rogue spawns is proportional to the mass carrying capacity of the island in question.
Wouldn't this put Dwilight in a unique disadvantage because of the character limitations?
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Wouldn't this put Dwilight in a unique disadvantage because of the character limitations?
No. Think about it this way, more nobles = more troops = greater mass. This is neglecting the issue that obviously peasants also contribute to the overall mass, so in some circumstances rogues are helping you by eating them.
Kill those rogues as efficiently as possible, while allowing them to decimate the peasant population, preferably in someone else's realm mind you.
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Sorry, I don't mean to be a spoil-sport but wasn't Dwilight designed to have a greater carrying capacity than could ever realistically be filled by nobles? Aren't there still cities on the continent that haven't reached their population potential since the island launched because they were rogue for so long? It has taken until the last couple of years that we've really seen decent sized warfare on the island, I'm afraid that even if the island survives it will push us back years in terms of maintenance and realms will once again be more isolationist. It seems inter-realm exchanges were just starting to peak and get exciting...
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Sorry, I don't mean to be a spoil-sport but wasn't Dwilight designed to have a greater carrying capacity than could ever realistically be filled by nobles? Aren't there still cities on the continent that haven't reached their population potential since the island launched because they were rogue for so long? It has taken until the last couple of years that we've really seen decent sized warfare on the island, I'm afraid that even if the island survives it will push us back years in terms of maintenance and realms will once again be more isolationist. It seems inter-realm exchanges were just starting to peak and get exciting...
Sorry, I really should use [joke] quotes for some of these posts.
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Sorry, I really should use [joke] quotes for some of these posts.
*raises hand and yells out* I got it!
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*raises hand and yells out* I got it!
Can I have "it" back? Please
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Sorry, I don't mean to be a spoil-sport but wasn't Dwilight designed to have a greater carrying capacity than could ever realistically be filled by nobles? Aren't there still cities on the continent that haven't reached their population potential since the island launched because they were rogue for so long?
No.
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The spawns we've seen in Corsanctum have actually been pretty tame; we're almost through all of them and half our army was overseas when it started.
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No.
It was more rhetorical...
Echiur has never reached its potential population for sure. Darfix looks to be under half of its potential population. Without checking all the cities I'm sure there are more, especially in the west.
Or was that in reference to Dwilight designed to have semi-permanent rogue regions/room for expansion?
Asylon has been hit pretty hard and many were still coming back the long way after getting defeated in Astrum. Only have characters on Dwilight, so no experience with how other islands are taking the invasion except for hearsay in realm chat.
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Well back in the days, Dwilight was impossible to fully conquer due to massive monster groups constantly pressuring your borders. This was reduced about 2 years ago?
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That would explain a lot then.
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Just think of it this way. Monsters are back and it is time for humans to retreat.
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How? Obviously the continents are going to be sunk by increasing the mass they have to support beyond their limits. Thus to be fair to all the rate of rogue spawns is proportional to the mass carrying capacity of the island in question.
Well, you see, all the monsters and undead got this memo; an adventurer will find one in a monster den. They've all been told to go see the world away from Atamara to be sure as few of them as possible get sunk.
Didn't you see the cruise ships trailing body parts or the S.S. Caveship floating along to BT?
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Atamara and EC have indeed become in comparison to Dwilight too quiet after that start...I don't trust it! :p
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How? Obviously the continents are going to be sunk by increasing the mass they have to support beyond their limits. Thus to be fair to all the rate of rogue spawns is proportional to the mass carrying capacity of the island in question.
You think they plan to sink the continent that goes most rogue. If so, I'd hope there are fail-safes for existing noble density. Dwilight is boned if not.
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Pretty sure they are not trying to 'sink' the island. I thought the whole plan was to freeze an island until we get more people?
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I would expect them to sink the world with the LEAST rogues so that there is more space for refugees to build a new realm.
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Pretty sure they are not trying to 'sink' the island. I thought the whole plan was to freeze an island until we get more people?
previous discussions of sinking an island
That's the word used in the announcement, apart from any trolling. Then again, that also says discussions of... which may not mean that sinking an island is actually what will happen.
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I think it would be deluding ourselves to assume that the player base will ever grow significantly before most of the players on any given island de-invest themselves in their frozen characters or outright leave the game.
Freezing makes little sense.
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Either way we are going to lose an island and see people of that island either migrate or quit.
I just hope not too many people will quit the game from losing an island.
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Either way we are going to lose an island and see people of that island either migrate or quit.
I just hope not too many people will quit the game from losing an island.
It's indeed a dilema, because those who quit might also have had characters elsewhere, effectively ending up with less continents and the same character density.
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So monsters stopped spawning? :o I was hoping to see them continuously spawn until March 1st.
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So monsters stopped spawning? :o I was hoping to see them continuously spawn until March 1st.
They definitely haven't stopped.
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They definitely haven't stopped.
Going to confirm this... unless those 15 or so reports each day are lies. :o Damn scribes, always moving when I use them for throwing axe practice!
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Going to confirm this... unless those 15 or so reports each day are lies. :o Damn scribes, always moving when I use them for throwing axe practice!
Fheuvenem keeps getting new spawns. Too small to dent us, but still, it's pretty continuous.
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Now i'm on a bit whiny mood :P
This is propably good and fun... BUT, same problem as these invasions have had previously on BT is occuring, those who have war going, suffers most on these and those lazy butts who chill out and play SimMaster this is just good entertainment and finally some action.
For future, if these happens again, i would suggest startings of these (possible invasions) should start from those realms which are not in war, and mayby give slight continent wide event to hint out those in war to get some sort of warning.
Dont get me wrong, this really is prolly fun and needed to do, just suggestion that it wouldnt put certain realms too bad position compared to others (especially those realms which are doing what everybody should be doing WAR!) :)
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Now i'm on a bit whiny mood :P
This is propably good and fun... BUT, same problem as these invasions have had previously on BT is occuring, those who have war going, suffers most on these and those lazy butts who chill out and play SimMaster this is just good entertainment and finally some action.
For future, if these happens again, i would suggest startings of these (possible invasions) should start from those realms which are not in war, and mayby give slight continent wide event to hint out those in war to get some sort of warning.
Dont get me wrong, this really is prolly fun and needed to do, just suggestion that it wouldnt put certain realms too bad position compared to others (especially those realms which are doing what everybody should be doing WAR!) :)
You knew this was going on and still sent armies into Fronen. That's not the game or the GMs' fault. You could have pulled back and been no worse off than the realms at peace.
Heck, I'd even challenge that assertion. At least your forces are mobilized. A realm that has been a peace too long needs to grease its gears.
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Yeah, you had to do what we did. Cease fire until rogues are gone, then we can kill Riombarans again.
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I know that this is supposed to be the "end of days", and that spawn rates just got turned up, but I just saw *four* monster hordes spawn in the *same* region. :o ???
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You knew this was going on and still sent armies into Fronen. That's not the game or the GMs' fault. You could have pulled back and been no worse off than the realms at peace.
Heck, I'd even challenge that assertion. At least your forces are mobilized. A realm that has been a peace too long needs to grease its gears.
[/quote
We were already landing on Fronen lands when this happened. Realm which has been peace long time, propably is rolling on the gold and can raise heck of a army in few turns.
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You knew this was going on and still sent armies into Fronen. That's not the game or the GMs' fault. You could have pulled back and been no worse off than the realms at peace.
Heck, I'd even challenge that assertion. At least your forces are mobilized. A realm that has been a peace too long needs to grease its gears.
Who the heck knew this was going on? Except for those with inside info, that is.
They wanted to pull back but Fronen didnt let them. Lets see how many friends that made Fronen.
And well, it takes not all too long to get nobles active when stuff starts happening. Thalmarkin has had peace for I dont know how long, and now we have nice big units running all over the place! :)
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Now i'm on a bit whiny mood :P
This is propably good and fun... BUT, same problem as these invasions have had previously on BT is occuring, those who have war going, suffers most on these and those lazy butts who chill out and play SimMaster this is just good entertainment and finally some action.
For future, if these happens again, i would suggest startings of these (possible invasions) should start from those realms which are not in war, and mayby give slight continent wide event to hint out those in war to get some sort of warning.
Dont get me wrong, this really is prolly fun and needed to do, just suggestion that it wouldnt put certain realms too bad position compared to others (especially those realms which are doing what everybody should be doing WAR!) :)
They are rogues, they spawn regardless of what you are doing at all times. The rogue spawning doesn't have the ability to target geographical area's even if it was deemed to be beneficial to do so. In general these things are never designed to take into account the current political climate, because no matter how you try to do it, some group will complain that they are at a disadvantage.
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The timing, autumn on dwilight, could have been better. Likely this will cause a decent starvation and the hordes don't seem to get any less..
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Yes yes, but what i tried to say... this current system(ok, its not happenin too often :)) it punishes those who are actively playing game.
It is thing which has annoyed me at BT all the time. You dont want to start a war, cause if invasion starts you are at bad position, those who sit and prepare have always done well on those invasions compared to those who have had fought wars.
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Yes yes, but what i tried to say... this current system(ok, its not happenin too often :)) it punishes those who are actively playing game.
It is thing which has annoyed me at BT all the time. You dont want to start a war, cause if invasion starts you are at bad position, those who sit and prepare have always done well on those invasions compared to those who have had fought wars.
Except those that sit around and wait can often have poor co-ordination and participation. No good having your realm in "pristine" condition if you can't effectively use it.
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Yeah, but war also often damages regions where battles are fought. This just reminds me about... 2nd? invasion, where Ar Agyr has fought long war against over half of the continent, bordering only 1 enemy. Those other realms sent small portions of their army other side of the island while their homes were tip top condition. When invasion started, AA had no chanche, border regions bad shape and some enemy roaming on our lands. It sucked, we had definately most effective war machine on whole island but we collapsed in few days... but such is life. I just wish these invasion things would start a bit slower and give heads up to those who are at war. BT has learnt this pretty well and most realms signed CF's immediatly.
But, just something to consider on future monster undead invasion plans.
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BTW... "T Minus"?... Day "T"?
T, for... Troll? Typhoon? Tentacles?... What do you think -T- means?
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While I hate to cut off a round of speculation, I only made it "T Minus" because that's the most readily recognizable countdown phrase for most Americans.
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BTW... "T Minus"?... Day "T"?
T, for... Troll? Typhoon? Tentacles?... What do you think -T- means?
Maybe it means torpedo.
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T = Thunder Birds obviously
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T = Thunder Birds obviously
And in 18 days they're all Go? ;D
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T is obviously meant for Tom. >.>
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T is obviously meant for Tom. >.>
The Bloody Handed God awakens?
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The Bloody Handed God awakens?
Yes, and I for one am willing to welcome monster dominion so long as they stay off the grass.
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T is obviously meant for Tom. >.>
I was waiting for that to come up. :-)
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Yes, and I for one am willing to welcome monster dominion so long as they stay off the grass.
*sigh* get off my lawn, you youngsters don't even get your /. references right anymore. Back in my days, we didn't even have... err... or something like that. :-)
I for one, welcome our new T-counting overlords.
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I for one, welcome our new T-counting overlords.
They're British?
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T= Tweareabouttodestroytheplanetwithloadsofgiantbabyeatingmonsters
that or it means Tabitha
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T-bag day
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Has any realm had any extra rogues apart from what was spawned the first days?
I thought the spawnings were really turned up, not just a one time boost? Not what I have seen though in any of the realms i play.
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I think it was just one time thing. I don't see any monsters in Eponllyn or Fallangard.
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That is because those realms are smaller probably.
In Perdan there are coming each day 2-3 hordes with 2-3k CS.
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I think it was just one time thing. I don't see any monsters in Eponllyn or Fallangard.
We had some in Eponllynn. We just have nothing to do except kill them, so they don't last long.
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We had some in Eponllynn. We just have nothing to do except kill them, so they don't last long.
More, Perleone won't *allow* us to do anything without them threatening to sic Perdan on us and our 'friends' in Fallangard don't seem to care at all while Sirion just wants to use us for their own ends. Mmmm...sweet sweet isolationism.
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Seems Rumors are spreading.. ::)
mm it will be sad to see the island go
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More, Perleone won't *allow* us to do anything without them threatening to sic Perdan on us and our 'friends' in Fallangard don't seem to care at all while Sirion just wants to use us for their own ends. Mmmm...sweet sweet isolationism.
Eponllyn has more options than that actually.
Seems Rumors are spreading.. ::)
mm it will be sad to see the island go
What rumours?
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I can't think of an island that it won't be sad to go. Each has its own history and flavor, and lots of effort across the years has been put into each one. I just hope the cost eventually makes the game more fun.
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Who said a island was going to sink?
;D ;) ::)
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Who said a island was going to sink?
;D ;) ::)
... Who said it'd be just one?
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Who said a island was going to sink?
;D ;) ::)
Who said it is an island? It could be part of the island you know... Shhhh, stop giving away 8)
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I for myself have heard no rumours yet. :P
Today was the day to extend my donation, I donated this time only for the next 14 days instead of more.
If the changes that happen are not what I like, I think I will miss out my 10 year anniversary in BM. :P
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By the way, if an island sink, what happens to the nobles and adventurers? Are they redistributed to the other islands in accordance to the family members they've got and where they are? Sorry if I'm asking something that has been already answered.
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In a few days, PANGEA. All continents will be smashed together, with but a thin strip of sea between them, easily sailable.
Pretty much what the game would need by now, anyways. A pity it would require a major overhaul of multiple fundamental game mechanics, and is thus unlikely to happen.
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By the way, if an island sink, what happens to the nobles and adventurers? Are they redistributed to the other islands in accordance to the family members they've got and where they are? Sorry if I'm asking something that has been already answered.
All is still a big mystery and since we dont even know if an island will be sunk, I doubt any information will be shared about your question until the countdown is over.
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In a few days, PANGEA. All continents will be smashed together, with but a thin strip of sea between them, easily sailable.
If that was possible, I'd really love to see it. IMHO, the more realms you can toss into the equation, the more fun everything is. Things tend to be much more dynamic.
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Has any realm had any extra rogues apart from what was spawned the first days?
I thought the spawnings were really turned up, not just a one time boost? Not what I have seen though in any of the realms i play.
I will retract the above. Seems we just had a 2-3 days silence before the second pop-up. Cant wait for T!
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If that was possible, I'd really love to see it. IMHO, the more realms you can toss into the equation, the more fun everything is. Things tend to be much more dynamic.
Indeed, I think only structural changes like this could have a lasting effect.
But I don't think it'd be feasible.
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Who said a island was going to sink?
;D ;) ::)
I heard the Titans can do anything....but i want explanation on how are they suppose to "Sink" an island.......
Peace
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28 days... think about the reference to a certain movie!
War among yourselves if you want, I will survive!
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I heard the Titans can do anything....but i want explanation on how are they suppose to "Sink" an island.......
Peace
Probably those of us on the sinkable island will be given a Scroll of Teleport to change to other island before the sinking happen. Those who not use the scroll be sink along ;)
28 days... think about the reference to a certain movie!
War among yourselves if you want, I will survive!
How you survive when there is war? Teach me the secret pretty please? :P
A few more days, one week plus to the final countdown, T Overlords.
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I heard the Titans can do anything....but i want explanation on how are they suppose to "Sink" an island......
Are there actually any Titans left?
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Are there actually any Titans left?
Presumably there are a few yes.
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Presumably there are a few yes.
Then they should check their msgs! :P
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Twists all his characters into infiltrator and starts wide spread assassinations ::)
Been training them for such a perfect time.
mm it isn't obvious what Tom is going to do, but i'm sure it will be entertaining. I just hope we get a good surprise even though its not April
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Tom isn't going to do anything. It's the rest of the dev team that's doing the sinking.
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Just Tim at this point I believe.
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mm it isn't obvious what Tom is going to do, but i'm sure it will be entertaining. I just hope we get a good surprise even though its not April
I was wondering that, hope it doesn't extend to april... or we will see a Massive Island sinking (Technically a World Flooding)
We are Watching you Tom! (http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2009/351/2/7/Smiley_Shake_Fist_by_Mirz123.gif)
Peace!
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This could be the most elaborate april fool's joke yet.
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Part 2 of last years.
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Remind me of Mayan prediction about end of the world.
T Overlords now left 7 more days to go and then...
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Remind me of Mayan prediction about end of the world.
T Overlords now left 7 more days to go and then...
*sighs* The Mayans never predicted the end of the world. That's just a misinterpretation by paranoid conspiracy theorists who were looking for "proof" that the world would end. The only thing with the Mayan long calender that was special is that it was accurate, and that it started again when it got to the end of its cycle. That's right, the supposed end of the long calender was never an end to begin with. And that is my rant of the day.
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The Mayan calendar turns, and years come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the calendar that gave it birth comes again. In one calendar, called the Long Calendar by some, a calendar yet to come, a calendar long past, a wind rose above the great mountainous island of Belauterra. The calendar was not the ending. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Mayan calendar. But it was an ending.
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The Mayan calendar turns, and years come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the calendar that gave it birth comes again. In one calendar, called the Long Calendar by some, a calendar yet to come, a calendar long past, a wind rose above the great mountainous island of Belauterra. The calendar was not the ending. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Mayan calendar. But it was an ending.
Nice Wheel of TIme rerefence.
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You must be worried with the Ragnarok, instead ;D
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Only 4 more days. I am interested to see what 'strange tidings' we will receive in the morning.
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(http://24.media.tumblr.com/370dd1ff4cb770b226d61de6fea33821/tumblr_mf7n80jE3O1qml12po1_500.png)
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Are the Colonies out of the loop on this? I haven't noticed anything.
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Moderator note: IG messages removed. Posting of IG messages on the forum is not permitted, with the exception of roleplays on the roleplay board.
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Are the Colonies out of the loop on this? I haven't noticed anything.
God, I hope the Colonies sink. There is absolutely zero going on there now.
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Moderator note: IG messages removed. Posting of IG messages on the forum is not permitted, with the exception of roleplays on the roleplay board.
I'm sorry, didn't know.
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Honestly I've been sticking in the game mostly to see what happens with this much anticipated island freezing. I hope the result will be more character interaction.
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I'm scared.
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I'm scared.
You should be.
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So, do something to stir things up in the colonies. Start a rebellion. Hire assassins. Declare a religious war. Call the people in OT a bunch of soft wimps who smell like girly soap.
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(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpsfcvEi571r18tcko1_1280.jpg)
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:o ;D ::)
See you on the other side!
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I can't wait to see what's gonna happen in the next couple of days. Should be a lot of fun :)
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So, do something to stir things up in the colonies. Start a rebellion. Hire assassins. Declare a religious war. Call the people in OT a bunch of soft wimps who smell like girly soap.
Something is being planned behind the scene. But to ensure the plan success, we need to look into the crystal ball and say Colonies not gonna sink yet before we do anything.
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we need to look into the crystal ball and say Colonies not gonna sink yet before we do anything.
Why? Just start, and see what happens. If you finish, you finish. If you don't, then you don't.
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Did anything happen, anywhere?
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Did anything happen, anywhere?
15 Hours still to go...
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I guess everything will happen at the evening turn change like the previous events :)
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Did anything happen, anywhere?
Yep.
If you see a message about bitter cold gripping a region and the peasants beginning to flee, I imagine your island's in trouble. My only hope is that this will hit the effected islands fairly evenly. If it just clobbers one or two realms, I'm sure it'll annoy people in grand style.
EDIT: ....and now we have snow trolls. Personally, I want a frost giant.
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Oh dear.
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If you see a message about bitter cold gripping a region and the peasants beginning to flee, I imagine your island's in trouble.
:(
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^_^
lol EI and AT roughen it.
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So "BS" is starting to happen in AT. it would be nice to know whos idea it was ? Just give the name
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So "BS" is starting to happen in AT. it would be nice to know whos idea it was ? Just give the name
lol told you guys they'd never sink a island. haha just when I return to Darka.
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lol told you guys they'd never sink a island. haha just when I return to Darka.
Whether or not they sink one this time around, "never" is inaccurate since two have been sunk a long time ago. (Before I started.)
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lol told you guys they'd never sink a island. haha just when I return to Darka.
Why would you take these events to mean they'd never sink an island? If I had to take a guess, I'd say EC, FEI and Atamara came lowest on that favourite island poll a while ago (I'm surprised all three ranked lower than Colonies, but perhaps that was vetoed as it's the only 1-turn-a-day island) and now all three are threatened. We'll have a chance to save our islands, and whichever fails to do so will be "sunk". Apparently the Devs took whoever it was' (Chenier's?) suggestion that an island be "frozen" rather than "sunk" literally.
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Weren't we supposed to get to know everything about this today? I don't feel any wiser...
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We will not get any answers. This game was very open in the beginning but now decisions are made behind closed doors and by few. If they hate something it will get hurt.
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We will not get any answers. This game was very open in the beginning but now decisions are made behind closed doors and by few. If they hate something it will get hurt.
Actually, that's about the reverse of what's true. In the early days of the game, I used to do a lot of things with no communication whatsoever just because I felt like it. There is certainly a lot more of a feedback loop these days.
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One thing I have witnessed is that many players start to behave like this game wont exist for way longer.
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Give it time; on Dwilight at least it seems that the event is starting in the north (if Qadan's OOC in the SA channel is indicative), so if you aren't in Morek or Niselur (possibly Astrum) then you probably won't have heard anything even though it's officially started.
That or it's not happening on Dwilight but the last message I got seemed to indicate we'd be getting "breeding grounds" like happen on Beluaterra during an invasion.
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I know the poll looked at islands, but to forestall the inevitable (pointed) questions, I would be interested in knowing how the north/south and east/west decisions were made.
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On Atamara, North was chosen because it was the direction obviously closer to the polar ice cap.
On EC and FEI, South was chosen by the polls.
On Dwilight, West was chosen for historical reasons (the West was dominated by monsters for much longer).
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Can you tell us how much, exactly will be covered? And is there anything our characters can do to reduce or increase the area?
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Can you tell us how much, exactly will be covered?
I'm thinking about that, and I'm going to discuss it with the dev team. Right now I'm leaning towards releasing an estimate.
And is there anything our characters can do to reduce or increase the area?
Characters? No.
What would increase or decrease the amount covered is changes in the overall noble-per-region density of the island. So if you can get 50 more people to join the Far East—people who will actually stick around—then we might well stop the glacier early.
If, on the other hand, we get large numbers of people just leaving the continent or leaving the game, we may have to keep them moving farther.
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What would increase or decrease the amount covered is changes in the overall noble-per-region density of the island. So if you can get 50 more people to join the Far East—people who will actually stick around—then we might well stop the glacier early.
If, on the other hand, we get large numbers of people just leaving the continent or leaving the game, we may have to keep them moving farther.
So long as the Dev team is patient with it (I'm assuming so, since it is a moving glacier). I've already emigrated 1 noble, and I'm sure there will others shuffling about until noble density stabilizes after regions freeze. If the western side of Dwilight is cleared, it could take quite some time.
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So long as the Dev team is patient with it (I'm assuming so, since it is a moving glacier). I've already emigrated 1 noble, and I'm sure there will others shuffling about until noble density stabilizes after regions freeze. If the western side of Dwilight is cleared, it could take quite some time.
Yeah; we're hoping that at least a significant number of nobles from Western Dwilight move to Eastern Dwilight. In general, though, as long as a large proportion of players don't leave the game, even with some redistribution the reduction in regions should significantly increase the noble density in the remainder of the regions.
And yes, glaciers move slowly. No worries about it gliding along at a rate of a region per turn or something like that ;D
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Haha Atamara has a giant ice-block hovering above it :P
The rogues have spawned in Dwilight on quite a large scale, at least in Barca.
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Given that it's monsters rather than a glacier in western Dwilight, does this mean the western Dwilight realms will be able to fight them off with enough strength, or will the regions just become completely inaccessible?
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Given that it's monsters rather than a glacier in western Dwilight, does this mean the western Dwilight realms will be able to fight them off with enough strength, or will the regions just become completely inaccessible?
I think that they will have to fight much, much harder than they are likely to be able to if they want to do more than delay the inevitable.
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Will it be fast or gradual augmentation of monsters ?
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Will it be fast or gradual augmentation of monsters ?
Mostly gradual, though you should see another spike over the next few turns, similar to the one a month ago.
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Honesty, I would have liked better not knowing what were happening!!! To know what and how much is going to be "frozen" destroy greatly the interest of the "ice age".
Not more fighting for the human survival, now we know no island is going to be destroyed... we only have to wait to see these regions iced, knowing the ice only will destroy a part of the island.
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General activity, amount of border wars and noble density is and have been higher in the south then in the north of the ec.
Both fallangard and Eponllyn have atracted more then average noble counts as well as prooving to be a intresting source of conflicts , developments both diplomatically, and culturally.
Things are starting to become intresting since a long time as players gather who simply want real wars instead of conserving some kind of horrible status qou.
Ifanything should freeze its sirion, perdan and those useless islands we got since last gm event there.
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Agreed on that.
Material blatantly insulting to the dev team removed.
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Being from Darka I can't say I'm entirely happy with this. To be taken down by a game event..bleh..
But so it goes.
Now just trying to decide whether to hope for all of Darka to be iced away or to have it go on with maybe Azzal left..
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West-Side is cooler than East-Side! Everybody knows! ;D
Truth is I'd definitely let monsters spawn in the eastern island of Dwilight, where I think there've not been so many intense and catchy conflicts for a long time as far as I know, but that's just my opinion. On the other side, Dwilight's colonisation started there, it has some sense that a re-colonization goes back to the origin in that sense.
Anyway, it'd be really sad for me to see Barca fall under monster pressure. We'll see what happens.
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Upon complaints about realms/regions suffering as they get more interesting, we devs took absolute care to ensure that we made no decisions based on current island politics, but on methods that resulted in an impartial choice on our part. Hence, those north/south polls. As someone who plays in Eponllyn and Lyonesse, it was not easy realizing you'd lose 'your realm', but at the same time, it is good to look forward to a more dynamic battlemaster like in the days of old. Situations like Eponllyn/Fallangard/Perleone can still continue to develop based on past diplomatic efforts, but there is now a new impetus for action. Will it divide the south or unify it?
And now, my frustration at Lyonesse losing Hawthorne by treason can finally be realized for the true harm it did to us beyond just island politics. :P
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General activity, amount of border wars and noble density is and have been higher in the south then in the north of the ec.
The hope of the dev team is that, much like migrations in the real world did, due to the slowness of this event, those affected will have plenty of time to pack up their things and conquer new land - especially if those other realms are weak and inactive and what not...
People forced out of their lands by whatever cause have always been the source of much conflict in the real world. So if you want to keep your realm, one option is to simply shift it away from the incoming ice age.
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Sheesh all this whining. It's basically the dark clouds of BT back during the 5th invasion.
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Why not spawn monsters on Dwilight on all sides of the world to compress it instead of choosing to !@#$ up one whole side.
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Gawd Dayum, all of my characters are in danger zones. I'm still deciding between being sad or looking forward to it. It'll be sad to see Barca being thorn asunder, as it basically IS my first realm ever.
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The hope of the dev team is that, much like migrations in the real world did, due to the slowness of this event, those affected will have plenty of time to pack up their things and conquer new land - especially if those other realms are weak and inactive and what not...
People forced out of their lands by whatever cause have always been the source of much conflict in the real world. So if you want to keep your realm, one option is to simply shift it away from the incoming ice age.
I am going to be quite disappointed if I get to watch Barca be pushed out of its lands by monsters, but at the same time I was getting a bit bored of the game anyway (I've just never really been able to get into RPing very much, but I still love this game) and I am looking forward to this. Especially on Atamara where things are a bit too comfortable (I have never played on FEI or EC so I have no idea what they are like), although I do feel a bit bad for some of the realms who will be losing their 'homelands' to a game event rather than player action (but then again it does mean they can blame an ice age for their fall and boast about how they couldn't have been defeated otherwise!).
Although I feel that the east side of Dwilight could also use some shaking up, but I am biased :p
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We realize that losing to a game event sucks. But we had to do something about the dropping density. With this event, rather than a "boom, bye" island sinking, we give players a chance to play it out and ultimately decide if and which realms die.
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I don't understand why we couldn't simply get rid of one continent in stead of screwing over every one of them.
The only character not loosing everything he has is a simple knight in which I invest the least time.
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I don't know why people think Eastern Dwilight won't be shaken by this event.
Just look at Roman Empire. It took a big hit by the Great German migration. Everyone knows how much influence you can have with a large group of people supporting you in any realm. Do you know how much chaos you can create by having 20-30 people following you into a realm with only 30 people?
Look at Barca and Asylon. Barca has 39 nobles and Asylon has 42. They both have more nobles than any of Eastern realms. With that many people, the realms Barcans and Asylonians are forced to migrate will either have to do their best to integrate those people into their realms or split a portion of their realm to let them have their own land instead of trying to take their realm over.
I am sorry to say this but something had to be done and the dev team came up with a solution. They've been trying to come up with a solution for a long time and even asked us, players, occasionally. Many people didn't even bother with it so why complain now?
Let this event play out and see if it works out as intended. If not, then we can discuss on that and try to figure out a solution. All these complains and whining won't make the game any better or make anyone happy.
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We realize that losing to a game event sucks. But we had to do something about the dropping density. With this event, rather than a "boom, bye" island sinking, we give players a chance to play it out and ultimately decide if and which realms die.
It doesn't suck if it is your own fault. In other words, if those realms affected get them destroyed by themselfs and are forever gone after that, that is quite fine. That is the spirit of the game, like in Belueterra. I liked that how it played out as players themselfs got a fair change and outcome was more or less based on that. This was actually what I was expecting this time. But currently it doesn't seem to be so.
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I'm thinking about that, and I'm going to discuss it with the dev team. Right now I'm leaning towards releasing an estimate.
Characters? No.
What would increase or decrease the amount covered is changes in the overall noble-per-region density of the island. So if you can get 50 more people to join the Far East—people who will actually stick around—then we might well stop the glacier early.
If, on the other hand, we get large numbers of people just leaving the continent or leaving the game, we may have to keep them moving farther.
Tim,
Let me get this straight so the Tom and the Dev team idea of solving the lack of noble problem came to this? I'm not opposed to the game event. However, you basically saying go out and recruit for the game or else well were going to reduce the playable regions, we are going to let this ice sheet cover the regions until we get players back then well let things heat up and let it recede...
I'm thinking well eventually have a few maps covered with glaciers... so basically it's on us as players to keep our respected continents alive. To maintain and attempt to increase our play density... something completely uncontrollable ...
Let me ask the Dev Team... What are you doing to get more players to join BattleMaster? Is the game even being marketed anymore? Tell us what your going to to get us more players! That's something we want answered if this such game event is going to go through.
Worked up, yup. Another bandaid idea...
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Tim,
Let me get this straight so the Tom and the Dev team idea of solving the lack of noble problem came to this? I'm not opposed to the game event. However, you basically saying go out and recruit for the game or else well were going to reduce the playable regions, we are going to let this ice sheet cover the regions until we get players back then well let things heat up and let it recede...
I'm thinking well eventually have a few maps covered with glaciers... so basically it's on us as players to keep our respected continents alive. To maintain and attempt to increase our play density... something completely uncontrollable ...
Let me ask the Dev Team... What are you doing to get more players to join BattleMaster? Is the game even being marketed anymore? Tell us what your going to to get us more players! That's something we want answered if this such game event is going to go through.
Worked up, yup. Another bandaid idea...
Are you really expecting Tom to market a free game? Well if this game made a considerable profit for Tom, I am sure he would have done so long ago but I think this game is probably nothing more than another red number line for Tom's balance.
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Interestingly, the problem that I now have is how to reconcile my IC with OOC knowledge. Because IC I know that Brackern would continue fighting until the last man. But OOC I know it would be better to organise our realm together with Asylon (with all our gold) and then go somewhere and stomp someone...
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I will tell you the thing is bothering me since the TMinus 28 days, and it isn´t the ice, the sinking of any Island, the huge Undead/Monsters hordes...
The worst thing are the players. I have just paused a character due to the lot of grey messages received every day. It is sad to see how some players are using the realm´s channel as a chat.
I do not like to see my Realm, Region or Estate dissapearing due to OOc Reasons, but to send OOc messages every hour is not a solution, IMO, it is only a way to kill the game.
I would pay for a "ignore OOC messages" option.
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I don't understand why we couldn't simply get rid of one continent in stead of screwing over every one of them.
This discussion has been had, very intensely, for quite a long time. Please look up all the arguments that were exchanged.
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I would pay for a "ignore OOC messages" option.
The filter at the top can give you a lists of received messages without the OOC messages. That'll be about $3.50, thank you.
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Are you really expecting Tom to market a free game? Well if this game made a considerable profit for Tom, I am sure he would have done so long ago but I think this game is probably nothing more than another red number line for Tom's balance.
I'm pretty sure no profit is made from BM if any it would be surprising...
Lapallanch the statement I highlighted insinuates something along the lines of a death spiral... the fewer nobles we have the more the ice creeps in and the fewer regions we can enjoy traversing through. Similar to the clouds on BT we hope not!
Side note: If realm channels are being filled please ask them to refrain from commenting in game and to bring it to the forum. No reason to flood in-game channels.
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The filter at the top can give you a lists of received messages without the OOC messages. That'll be about $3.50, thank you.
Now I understand, thanks for clearing that up.
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I would pay for a "ignore OOC messages" option.
From your family page, click the Options link. Look for the option: "Default news filter: " Set it to "No OOC Messages". Then when you check your messages, you will have to explicitly click the "All messages" or OOC options to actually see them. I've had my filter set this way forever.
Note that OOC messages will still trip the new messages waiting notifications, though.
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I thank Tom and the dev team for all of their hard work in making this game one of the most enjoyable games ever.
I just don't think forcing players out of their realms across multiple islands is such a good idea. As previously stated, this idea had nothing to do with the political agenda of each island. Which is imho a mistake. There will always be players who come and go. It is the players who stick with it that notice the certain stagnate play of each island, which again imho is directly associated with each of the islands politics and to a lesser degree noble count. Yes this is easily fixed by shrinking region count and therefor making noble counts swell in the remaining regions however how could we ever expect to know how this will end up if realm politics stay the same. Barca and most western realms in dwilight are going to suffer, making us all travel east. If we fail to make a dent, how will the game change except for removing a large player base from their desired realms. The same goes for Darka, which has been the only realm capable of fighting the Cagilian/Tara federation. If they fail to expand and make a change to Atamara, do the politics not stay the same? It seems like a gamble to me.
I received a message in game asking me to post my feelings on the forum, though I am nervous about it because I don't know what repercussions it might have to to people mistaking my messages as some kind of argument put forward. This is just my opinion and I in no way wish to make things harder for Tom and the dev team.
I will however continue to play, even if my opinion is invalid or incorrect. The game mechanic is still to fresh to make a concrete judgement and in my mind there is no reason for me not to continue playing. Though my excitement has honestly slightly diminished.
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I thank Tom and the dev team for all of their hard work in making this game one of the most enjoyable games ever.
I just don't think forcing players out of their realms across multiple islands is such a good idea. As previously stated, this idea had nothing to do with the political agenda of each island. Which is imho a mistake. There will always be players who come and go. It is the players who stick with it that notice the certain stagnate play of each island, which again imho is directly associated with each of the islands politics and to a lesser degree noble count. Yes this is easily fixed by shrinking region count and therefor making noble counts swell in the remaining regions however how could we ever expect to know how this will end up if realm politics stay the same. Barca and most western realms in dwilight are going to suffer, making us all travel east. If we fail to make a dent, how will the game change except for removing a large player base from their desired realms. The same goes for Darka, which has been the only realm capable of fighting the Cagilian/Tara federation. If they fail to expand and make a change to Atamara, do the politics not stay the same? It seems like a gamble to me.
I received a message in game asking me to post my feelings on the forum, though I am nervous about it because I don't know what repercussions it might have to to people mistaking my messages as some kind of argument put forward. This is just my opinion and I in no way wish to make things harder for Tom and the dev team.
I will however continue to play, even if my opinion is invalid or incorrect. The game mechanic is still to fresh to make a concrete judgement and in my mind there is no reason for me not to continue playing. Though my excitement has honestly slightly diminished.
+1
I am not excited about this event but, it's not gonna stop me from playing.
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From your family page, click the Options link. Look for the option: "Default news filter: " Set it to "No OOC Messages". Then when you check your messages, you will have to explicitly click the "All messages" or OOC options to actually see them. I've had my filter set this way forever.
Note that OOC messages will still trip the new messages waiting notifications, though.
Thanks for the info :), years playing and still unknown features and options. I love this game :D
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Let me ask the Dev Team... What are you doing to get more players to join BattleMaster? Is the game even being marketed anymore? Tell us what your going to to get us more players! That's something we want answered if this such game event is going to go through.
Note how we're the Dev Team. Not the Marketing Team.
The only thing I really know about how to market something online is to buy Google ads. And BattleMaster is really a hard game to market, because it appeals to a very small niche.
If you have any good (non-obvious) ideas about how to market the game, I'd be more than happy to hear them (preferably in a different thread). It's just not something I know much about, and BattleMaster doesn't have a budget, so the obvious answer isn't really a viable one.
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What about the other islands? The monstrer/undead spawining will return to normal level or we will continue to get hordes like now?
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Honestly, I think that reverting the western continent of Dwilight to the monsters is going to have a much more negative effect than you think it will. You realize that most of the newer players that are starting to enjoy the game are in places like Asylon, Barca, and Nivemus, while the east is completely dominated by the old elite? Barca is pretty much the one thing keeping me in this game, and I've seen more roleplay going on in that realm than any other that I've been in for the past three years. Besides that, the way Dwilight was split into two continents is what made it special. In this way, you could be assured that one realm couldn't possibly control the politics of the whole island. Compare that to Atamara, East Island, or Far East Island. Atamara has the Caligan Empire, East Island has Perdan, Far East Island has Arcaea. The politics of those islands revolve entirely on those realms, which leads to rather boring, stagnant, linear diplomacy and wars.
Compare that to Dwilight. We have the war between Asylon, Nivemus, and the SA bloc that just finished, and at the same time, we had a war going on with Barca, D'Hara, and Fissoa facing off against Luria Nova. These wars were completely independent of each other, and both involved relatively equal sides. Tell me the last time you saw that? On Atamara, the CE, if it so chose, could intervene in any conflict with relative ease. The same with Perdan or Arcaea. If we were to take away one of Dwilight's continents, what do you think would happen? It would just become another Atamara.
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This reminds me so much of when I pulled my stunt with SA. You couldn't tell people that efforts were being made so that everything doesn't fall apart. That might have been a different beast, but the same rule applies. People tend to get excitable when something out of their control starts.
I feel confident that the Devs aren't just going to let a realm get shafted by the ice. They may have picked where it happened on chance, but I think they will be merciful once the effects manifest. Everyone chill your panties.
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As previously stated, this idea had nothing to do with the political agenda of each island. Which is imho a mistake.
The problem with taking politics into consideration is that if we did that - even just a little - there would be an immediate flamewar on the forum and in-game to accuse the dev team of playing favorites. Leaving politics out entirely is the only way to dodge that bullet at least a bit.
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I have thought more about it, and you are definitely right Tom. I'm sure when this idea was presented, you guys were gearing yourself up for disappointed people. Which is inevitable, I realize now.
Play on, deal with the misfortune and make something out of it. I retract my statement from earlier and am just gonna go with it. Once again thank you for your time Tom/dev team.
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On EC and FEI, South was chosen by the polls.
The north or south polls? But no-one was told what those polls were about, were they? It's more than a little bizarre to have based the direction of freezing on that.
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The north or south polls? But no-one was told what those polls were about, were they?
That's correct.
After discussion among the devs, it was decided that while we wanted a more-or-less random decision, it would be best to make sure that the process was public, so that no one could claim that the dev team had "rigged" it in their favour.
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The Devs speak of forcing a 'migration' to increase noble density but how do they expect us dispossessed nobles to migrate when as soon as we travel a little distance from our lands our men lose morale from being away from home?
Also if they want more nobles per region they will need to make playing a knight more interesting and more self sufficient. As it stands now only rich city regions can support Knights, most rural regions are too poor and any rural knights can not make enough money to be able to afford to raise a decent retinue to act as an effective warrior.
I have loved this game and have made a home for a character in Barca and will try to continue but I am afraid that in destroying the west continent the Devs will drive me away from the game.
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The Devs speak of forcing a 'migration' to increase noble density but how do they expect us dispossessed nobles to migrate when as soon as we travel a little distance from our lands our men lose morale from being away from home?
I've got some plans along these lines. Gotta refine them over the next few days, but I think it is a good idea to give the people being displaced a boost in ability to conquer new land for themselves.
Also if they want more nobles per region they will need to make playing a knight more interesting and more self sufficient. As it stands now only rich city regions can support Knights, most rural regions are too poor and any rural knights can not make enough money to be able to afford to raise a decent retinue to act as an effective warrior.
"More nobles per region" doesn't mean every region needs to have more knights. There's no reason you can't have a city with 10 knights, and then rural regions with a lord and maybe 1 knight.
The point is to make sure that, on average, a realm with 10 regions has more than 15-20 characters in it total.
I have loved this game and have made a home for a character in Barca and will try to continue but I am afraid that in destroying the west continent the Devs will drive me away from the game.
Well, I hope that doesn't happen. I'm always sad to see a player leave, whatever the reason.
But remember, the choice was never between doing this and doing nothing. The choice was between doing this and closing at least one entire continent. Even if it didn't end up being a continent you, personally, cared about, that would have made a lot more people a lot more angry.
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I've got some plans along these lines. Gotta refine them over the next few days, but I think it is a good idea to give the people being displaced a boost in ability to conquer new land for themselves.
"More nobles per region" doesn't mean every region needs to have more knights. There's no reason you can't have a city with 10 knights, and then rural regions with a lord and maybe 1 knight.
The point is to make sure that, on average, a realm with 10 regions has more than 15-20 characters in it total.
Well, I hope that doesn't happen. I'm always sad to see a player leave, whatever the reason.
But remember, the choice was never between doing this and doing nothing. The choice was between doing this and closing at least one entire continent. Even if it didn't end up being a continent you, personally, cared about, that would have made a lot more people a lot more angry.
all the realms with 15-20 characters in total on Dwilight are in the central part of the continent. In fact, Barca has the second most of any realm on the whole of Dwilight, right after Asylon. If you wanted to get people into higher concentrations, you would have been much, MUCH better off doing the north and south of Dwilight. Those areas have the least density in population, meaning that closing them off would effect population density a lot more for the continent as a whole.
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I've got some plans along these lines. Gotta refine them over the next few days, but I think it is a good idea to give the people being displaced a boost in ability to conquer new land for themselves.
I think it would be nice to have that advantage Tom mentioned during the discussion. Having one region each in Eastern Dwilight for Asylon, Niselur, and Barca where they can invade the continent. Might be nice to not have to worry about morale and equipment damage while Western Dwilight gets overrun.
I am sure you have many plans :)
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I hope people dont push too much dev's on this. I admit, i'm a bit uppsett too, but then again, not much have actually happened yet, atleast not Atamara.
Something needed to be done and if you look outside your own box, this is pretty good solution. It is definately not going to fix the problem, but helps a bit results of the problem.
I will comment only from AT, cause i dont play elsewhere where this has effected, well on BT there was some rogue popups...
As long as its not major scale ice age, that it wont eat like 1/3 of the continent, example Darka should be ok. It weakens it, but i guess nothing dramatic. I know it hurts many players there, we have been fighting war for our survival for over 2 years and doing decently agains pretty massive alliance and now if we die something we cant as players/characters do nothing, it sucks.... but i bet ice age finns thought same thing, "Dammit, this sucks!" and they moved south. I do hope this ace age doesnt go forward very fast to give realms time to adapt situation, and i hope rogue infestions as well dont bee too harsh, unless it effects whole continent and keeps central fellows busy as well. These are my small hopes for my little poor realm which i love... 10+ years.
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I have loved this game and have made a home for a character in Barca and will try to continue but I am afraid that in destroying the west continent the Devs will drive me away from the game.
Same here, i dont like any of the eastern realms and i think ill just quit the game when the inevitable happens.
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I've got some plans along these lines. Gotta refine them over the next few days, but I think it is a good idea to give the people being displaced a boost in ability to conquer new land for themselves.
I'm going to have to wait and see these plans then because right now I can see no way that my most directly affected character (Asylon/Dwilight) is going to be able to march to the Eastern side of dwilight traversing the entire monster infested western side and then sitting on ships for a week and land in shape for battle (I hardly think the eastern realms will be giving their land away).
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I'm going to have to wait and see these plans then because right now I can see no way that my most directly affected character (Asylon/Dwilight) is going to be able to march to the Eastern side of dwilight traversing the entire monster infested western side and then sitting on ships for a week and land in shape for battle (I hardly think the eastern realms will be giving their land away).
Same here, i dont like any of the eastern realms and i think ill just quit the game when the inevitable happens.
Or we could join a realm, stomp another nearby realm, take their land and create a colony. What is not given shall be taken! The misery that is felt by western Dwilight shall certainly be felt by all who dwell on dwilight, both east and west. Western Dwilight shall live again.
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Look on the different side guys. IF the wipeout happens in the east of Dwilight instead of the west, the inactive players will remain inactive and they won't plan any invasion whatsoever to the west making it more stagnant. Having it happening to the west will cause a lot of fresh ideas to pop out and more scheme to take over the east. It is the better choice.
On another note, why is there nothing happening to Beluaterra!!! It is going stagnant and reduced in number of players.
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Same here, i dont like any of the eastern realms and i think ill just quit the game when the inevitable happens.
They are not god-given, you know? They are players just like you. You can change them, invade them or destroy them.
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All these people claiming they'll quit the game after everything happened are outright selfish. What is happening is happening to improve gameplay for all. It is true that sacrifices have to be made, but it is wrong to get bitter if you are the one affected by it. I would once again like to applaud the devs for what they did. I truly believe it'll help Battlemaster get more vivid again, and I love how they brought it to the players (with the Ice Age). It's only fair to say that I am not directly affected by this yet, as all my characters are not in the parts of Battlemaster that are affected - but it does feel like my plan to recreate Ibladesh in its old lands will be hard once it's covered in ice. Ah, I'll spin a cult out of it some day!
I'm actually wishing I was in a part that was affected. There are plenty of realms which will remain unaffected but are poorly organized and thus ripe for invasion.
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I made this comment in another thread, but it bears repeating. There are no unaffected regions or continents. The effects will be felt most immediately by characters in realms where the freeze and monsters are the worst. The potential impact on your neighbors is, IMHO, just as bad. It's just different.
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As a developer myself I can say this is a very bad idea on the developer's side. Those who say this is selfish are unjust in there cause. These lands that the developers are just wiping out are built in history and player creation. By wiping these out you are removing all that has been achieved which is a real shame.
I play in Dwilight and I can say by forcing the west east, you are removing all the great cities and homes they have worked upon. This is a real shame as the game was truly developing in this continent and I can say as a new player how active and alive it felt. But this new idea will not make the game more exciting but will force people away. Your idea of trying to bring more players is only pushing players out. If this is what you want the end Battlemaster itself is near, as word of mouth is a powerful force positively and negatively.
Perhaps a better plan would be to reboot the game and give people an even footing to reclaim smaller lands, rather then crushing all that has been achieved. A game called Utopia used to do this and made it fair and just for all.
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As a developer myself I can say this is a very bad idea on the developer's side. Those who say this is selfish are unjust in there cause. These lands that the developers are just wiping out are built in history and player creation. By wiping these out you are removing all that has been achieved which is a real shame.
I play in Dwilight and I can say by forcing the west east, you are removing all the great cities and homes they have worked upon. This is a real shame as the game was truly developing in this continent and I can say as a new player how active and alive it felt. But this new idea will not make the game more exciting but will force people away. Your idea of trying to bring more players is only pushing players out. If this is what you want the end Battlemaster itself is near, as word of mouth is a powerful force positively and negatively.
Perhaps a better plan would be to reboot the game and give people an even footing to reclaim smaller lands, rather then crushing all that has been achieved. A game called Utopia used to do this and made it fair and just for all.
Advertise that Dwilight is sinking and let everyone emigrate to a new, smaller continent as a fresh start? I like that idea, actually, that'd be pretty cool. I am, however, not looking forward to the flood of Asylonian refugees I expect to show up in Corsanctum.
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If we sink an island, why not just nuke the game from orbit island-wise.
New islands, new maps, no history, fresh start, period. THAT, would be interesting.
As it stands now, I'm a bit annoyed that I chose to come back to BM just in time to have it all turned upside down again. And in a realm at the fore-front of it at that.
Actually, I wonder how hard it would be to implement the map logic that Tom is using for M&F over on BM. Make the maps more fluid, and fluctuate the size based on the number of players. Heck, you can buy the game that BM's maps are made from on Steam right now (That's Age of Wonders 1, by the way). It'd take some effort to do, admittedly, but it might be better in the end.
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I'm a little worried about the effects, particularly for Dwilight, though I assume they probably assume.
In the past, we've seen a number of west-east wars. I think it's been generally agreed that having as many neighbors as possible is a good thing, and that long linear continents are contrary to this. Indeed, Dwilight's halfs are so thin, that there are no realms side by side, save for Corsanctum which almost snuggles in between Morek and Swordfell anyways.
More people per realm, great, for sure. But even in the earlier days, when the whole north had a lot of people and grew, laterally, into a snuggle-fest, options quickly became limited for them.
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I am not knocking the methods that the Devs have used for the recent changes on Dwilight, I will keep on playing regardless even if it means moving my home. I would have prefered a complete wipe for the island though, starting it out fresh.
A meteor strike could have landed in the sea dead in the centre creating a destructive sunami wiping out all life everywhere. After the water receded, life once again began to re-root with the mosters being the first to arrive. Now the humans arrive with the drive to once again make this island their home, as it once was for their ancestors. Many ruined temples are discovered with hidden relics of the old empires giving the chance to discover how their ancestors once lived. Let the conquer of lands begin, but first the monsters must be driven from the hills.
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Actually, the East Island and Far East Island are thinner than Dwilight. It's just that Dwilight hasn't had enough protracted civil wars to really break up the realms. It's got the cities to break it up a lot more, it just hasn't happened. Not enough people ruffling feathers I think. That and the Astroist realms didn't want to declare war on each other for fear of pissing off every OTHER astroist realm.
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For all of those asking for a complete wipe, really think about what you're saying for a minute.
Right now, this is pissing off players who care about their realm and history in Barca, Kindara, Darka, and Eponllyn.
If we were to simply wipe the entire game and start fresh, it would piss off all those same people, plus the people in Sirion, Suville, Arcaea, Morek, and even Riombara, Thalmarkin, Oritolon, and Outer Tilog.
Yes, this results in some people losing land to ice or monsters and others not.
The answer to that isn't to complain that it's unfair. It's to make sure that the people not losing land to ice or monsters lose it to you guys.
Furthermore, given the scope of the problem we're trying to solve, making completely new maps for the entire game just wouldn't have been realistic within the timeframe we had in which to act. I know: I suggested it first. My original proposal to the dev team to counter the idea of just simply sinking 1 island was, indeed, a total reset, sinking all the existing islands and making new maps (I even bought Age of Wonders; just $6 on Steam!). But realistically, that would have taken months—months when the problems of the game wouldn't have been getting any better, because not only would we have not put anything in place to slow the bleeding, we wouldn't even have time to do bugfixing and new development.
So while I've still got my original idea in my back pocket for some future time when we need to spice up the game further, for now, this is by far the more preferable option.
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Actually, the East Island and Far East Island are thinner than Dwilight. It's just that Dwilight hasn't had enough protracted civil wars to really break up the realms. It's got the cities to break it up a lot more, it just hasn't happened. Not enough people ruffling feathers I think. That and the Astroist realms didn't want to declare war on each other for fear of pissing off every OTHER astroist realm.
Pretty sure I saw that linear geography named out a few times back when both of these islands got a little stale, too.
Not saying something better could have been done. Not really any easy perfect solution out there.
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Yes this event sucks. I don't know whos idea it was and I don't care. You should have just inform us on Atamara that just stop playing, This can happen only in eastern europe and propably someone will be pissed about this messages aswell .
Why we can't disagree what you have done? Don't you have any kind of pride at all ?
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The north or south polls? But no-one was told what those polls were about, were they? It's more than a little bizarre to have based the direction of freezing on that.
Indeed ,it should be posted on game not here where only couple of brainwashed will answer. I do suggest that everyone will pause their characters and concentrate to play there where they really wants.
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Enough, Zader. You don't like it, that's fine. We get it. But the constant hostility and ridiculous hyperbole is unnecessary and won't be tolerated.
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Does this move suck? Sure. But where the game was headed sucked too. Not all problems have nice solutions to them.
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Does this move suck? Sure. But where the game was headed sucked too. Not all problems have nice solutions to them.
Thank you Chenier. :)
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I have not followed recent player/character count, but atleast in Darka we didnt have that much problem with lack of nobility... What i try to say, were Atamara somehow troubleous with lack of nobility?
AA @ BT sure could use some nobles... but this thing doesnt seem to directly effect BT, but ofcourse if half of Atamara is frozen, sure some will move to BT.
-Jaune
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I do really hope, though, that the Dev team attempts to find a way to crunch the continents together to form some kind of Pangaea. Smaller continents mean higher density, and it was required, but it also means lower neighbor count, which is bad. Short seas separating the continents, perhaps some of them crashing into each other completely, physically in contact with a few mountains springing up in between.
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I do really hope, though, that the Dev team attempts to find a way to crunch the continents together to form some kind of Pangaea. Smaller continents mean higher density, and it was required, but it also means lower neighbor count, which is bad. Short seas separating the continents, perhaps some of them crashing into each other completely, physically in contact with a few mountains springing up in between.
That is not currently in our plans.
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That is not currently in our plans.
I didn't think it was, but I do think it will be the next big step, as what was done, alone, is unlikely to "solve" the long-term problems, despite being a necessary measure.
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As I can see, in this model of event some realms would be pushed against old behemoths. In EC, the south will have another excuse to march on Sirion. In Dwilight, Asylon will have to be used to live as a Mongol horde. The problem is that if the old realms like Sirion and Morek could resist against the first waves, in fact we will have realms "winning" some maps. Definitely.
While I agree to reduce the maps, the entire process with monsters is a little boring for me. I cannot interact with them. I cannot roleplay with them. They're just numbers. I just hope to have a fast transition.
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Speaking from the perspective of a player who has all his characters affected, I think considering the circumstances the devs made the right decision. I see in most affected people a short-sightedness and a selfishness that quite surprised me. Whatever island that'd be sunk, there'd always be a lot of angry people. Even those players I talked about the devs decisions of this I found red-handed on saying 'sink any island but mine' in one way or another.
Remember that in a good compromise noone is happy. Instead of nuking a single continent and erasing a giant chunk of history and culture and whatnot created on that continent, the devs decided to let some 'natural disasters' strike every continent. This way you are allowed to RP it out and still keep your continet's history. Entire realms being wiped because of it is true, but that happened in history too.
Now, imagine that in the real world this would be happening and you'd be forced to move or die. What would you do? What would your characters do? Just erase the devs from this image, and use that in thegame to write and play your characters through this time.
Thumbs up for the devs.
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My only problem with the whole thing is this:
We held polls for some of the islands. The half of the continent that got the most votes is now to be covered in ice. However, nobody knew what they were voting for at the time. If I present you with a choice between Coke and Pepsi, and don't tell you what you're choosing, you're going to pick the one you like the best.
The most popular ends of the islands where the votes were held are the ones being frozen. Dafuq?
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I'm starting to wonder if any armed migration will actually be possible, I hope the changes to morale for the migrating nations comes soon, as well as a way to pay our men without having any significant tax income (if any, I just about had my region fixed up when 60 more monsters showed up, wiped my unit out, and will probably wreck it before tax day). Not too mention how badly most armies need to march back and refit after one or two battles, plus the many days of time that takes.
Starting to wish we had an ice age on Dwilight too, monsters are a bit faster than ice!
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The idea of the polls wad not to provide a popularity contest where people try to run up the votes in their favor. All we needed was a random answer in a public setting.
And you guys ended up destroying my realm. Grrrr. >:(
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Speaking from the perspective of a player who has all his characters affected, I think considering the circumstances the devs made the right decision. I see in most affected people a short-sightedness and a selfishness that quite surprised me. Whatever island that'd be sunk, there'd always be a lot of angry people. Even those players I talked about the devs decisions of this I found red-handed on saying 'sink any island but mine' in one way or another.
Remember that in a good compromise noone is happy. Instead of nuking a single continent and erasing a giant chunk of history and culture and whatnot created on that continent, the devs decided to let some 'natural disasters' strike every continent. This way you are allowed to RP it out and still keep your continet's history. Entire realms being wiped because of it is true, but that happened in history too.
Now, imagine that in the real world this would be happening and you'd be forced to move or die. What would you do? What would your characters do? Just erase the devs from this image, and use that in thegame to write and play your characters through this time.
Thumbs up for the devs.
I have mixed feelings about this perspective, so I'm going to give my rebuttal to this:
Yes, we would all like to believe that all everyone wants is a game filled with rich roleplay, politics and cultural intrigue, and let the dice fall where they may. But on the other hand, we are humans, and humans usually like to succeed at things. They also usually dislike failing. Not everyone plays for the same reasons, and when your developing a game you have to take into account the fact that humanity is a vast kaleidoscope of personalities, all with a myriad of differing goals and complex desires.
You can't choose the type of people that play the game, or there wouldn't be a game at all. I think it is a bit arrogant to pretend that everyone in the game is a perfectly virtuous player with only good intentions, who are all playing the game "the right way". There is no wrong way to play the game (unless you're cheating). If a player truly has a stake in their character's success or failure, it is a sign that the game was well craft, and shouldn't be held against them. That's just a natural part of humanity. It's like veganism: perfectly fine if someone wants to take an ethical approach to their eating habits, but completely inappropriate to try and force them on others. You just can't ignore the human element.
But I think the biggest problem is that this idea seems too unfair. They were talking about sinking an entire island, but instead they went for the middle ground, which was what I was afraid of. If they had done away with a whole island, no one would end up with an advantage or disadvantage. Yes, some people would be angry, but not enough to want to quit, because if their island sinks, all their enemies sink with it, so no one "wins" due to dumb luck. It's all about perceived fairness.
And by the way, this also isn't really fair to the "winners"- the people who just happen come out on top due to these new circumstances. For instance, I have a character on Far East Island who benefits IMMENSELY from the ice age in the South. This character has been working for years to fight against his enemies down in Kindara, and now I don't even feel like playing this character because the game is making his job too easy. I feel like all the hard work I put into fighting the war was a complete waste of time. I could have just as easily got drunk and watched Monty Python. Hell, I wish I had. It's like if you spent a year working on a project for work, only to have the company decide to scrap the project in favor of contracting it out to someone else. It's like "Sure, I'm still getting paid, and the project is still getting done, but now I have nothing to be proud of". You can't be proud of a victory you didn't earn.
Finally, the fact that this is an event that is happening over time is possibly the worst decision of the entire process. Players are going to be stuck in limbo wondering when the laws of reality are going to return, so they can continue to play on an even field. It would have been much better to enact the changes all at once, like ripping off a band-aid. Slow = excruciating.
Something needed to be done, and so they did something. At least we can say that. I think it is worth mentioning that the dev team are unpaid volunteer hobbyists, as opposed to a team of paid, trained professionals with a 40-hour work week. And for what it's worth, this event is both more interesting and (relatively) more realistic that just simply sinking an entire island.
I think the devs did the best they could, and even if every decision they made was wrong we need to give it a chance.
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But I think the biggest problem is that this idea seems too unfair. They were talking about sinking an entire island, but instead they went for the middle ground, which was what I was afraid of. If they had done away with a whole island, no one would end up with an advantage or disadvantage. Yes, some people would be angry, but not enough to want to quit, because if their island sinks, all their enemies sink with it, so no one "wins" due to dumb luck. It's all about perceived fairness.
I think you don't really understand the mindset of quite a few of the players. If we had outright closed Atamara, or Dwilight, how many people would be on the forums flaming away about how we screwed up, and they are quitting "RIGHT NOW!"?
In a game like this, shrinking is a hard decision. No matter how you do it, people will complain, people will swear, and yes, people will even quit. There is simply no way to do it that makes everyone happy.
And by the way, this also isn't really fair to the "winners"- the people who just happen come out on top due to these new circumstances. For instance, I have a character on Far East Island who benefits IMMENSELY from the ice age in the South. This character has been working for years to fight against his enemies down in Kindara, and now I don't even feel like playing this character because the game is making his job too easy.
Declare victory via divine intervention, retire the character, and make a new one to fight against the tyrannical oppression of the empire.
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But I think the biggest problem is that this idea seems too unfair. They were talking about sinking an entire island, but instead they went for the middle ground, which was what I was afraid of. If they had done away with a whole island, no one would end up with an advantage or disadvantage. Yes, some people would be angry, but not enough to want to quit, because if their island sinks, all their enemies sink with it, so no one "wins" due to dumb luck. It's all about perceived fairness.
I am 100% certain that this is false.
If we closed an entire island, many people whose "main" characters are on that island would quit the game. Not only would everything they have worked for be destroyed, there wouldn't even be an island around anymore to remember it by, or a chance of getting it back.
Closing an entire island doesn't give us the freedom to open it up again until and unless we see a huge boost in player numbers.
Glaciating parts of several islands lets us monitor the player density numbers on those islands, and if one of them gets above certain thresholds and remains there for a while, we can begin moving the glaciers back. Land can be returned bit by bit, rather than all or nothing.
You talk as if closing an island would have had people saying, "Well, gosh darn it, I lost everything that made BattleMaster fun for me—but so did my character's enemies, so I guess it's OK! I'll keep playing!" That's obviously unrealistic. I am still convinced that we made the right call by not closing any of our continents, and doing this instead.
Again: There was absolutely no solution to the problems at hand that could be implemented without pissing anybody off.
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I am 100% certain that this is false.
If we closed an entire island, many people whose "main" characters are on that island would quit the game. Not only would everything they have worked for be destroyed, there wouldn't even be an island around anymore to remember it by, or a chance of getting it back.
Closing an entire island doesn't give us the freedom to open it up again until and unless we see a huge boost in player numbers.
Glaciating parts of several islands lets us monitor the player density numbers on those islands, and if one of them gets above certain thresholds and remains there for a while, we can begin moving the glaciers back. Land can be returned bit by bit, rather than all or nothing.
You talk as if closing an island would have had people saying, "Well, gosh darn it, I lost everything that made BattleMaster fun for me—but so did my character's enemies, so I guess it's OK! I'll keep playing!" That's obviously unrealistic. I am still convinced that we made the right call by not closing any of our continents, and doing this instead.
Again: There was absolutely no solution to the problems at hand that could be implemented without pissing anybody off.
I cannot help but disagree entirely (except with the last part; you're right- there was no perfect way to do this).
The entire idea of sinking a whole island comes with the obvious caveat that you would tell people which one it is, so they can emigrate if they so choose, thus bolstering the numbers on other islands and allowing players to bring with them their own personal history; the tales of a lost world, etc. I know it's more fun to be secretive and mysterious about these things, but at some point pragmatism has to play a role. If players can simply move their favorite characters, your entire dilemma is avoided.
And I think you're overplaying that dilemma, by the way: for the most part, players tend to spread over multiple islands. I have seen very few family pages where all the characters inhabit a single continent. I don't think people would quit as long as a thorough explanation is given as to why the island was sunk (just tack it right up there above the player's Family in big, yellow letters). That doesn't leave any room to interpret favoritism on the part of the devs, whereas now we are all left to deviously speculate behind your backs.
Yes, people would be pissed, but it's a different kind of pissed. Picture two companies: one is destroyed by a natural disaster, and the other one is destroyed by an inept CFO: either way, the employees are going to be pissed, but at least with a natural disaster there is no one to be angry at. Eventually you just accept your fate and find a new job, instead of going all mental, tracking down that inept CFO, and force-feeding him a tire-iron.
Removing certain parts of certain islands appears to show favoritism, and that does a lot more damage to the players' trust than the original idea of just sinking an island. When people do not feel they are being treated fair, they tend to fight back. If you've had an opportunity to read Malcolm Gladwell's latest, "David and Goliath", you'll know what I'm talking about, and how huge the difference is, sociologically speaking.
Also, hoping that the player base expands back up to levels where islands can be re-opened is unrealistic (in my opinion, at least). With the remarkable advances in gaming graphics coupled with the exponentially expanding field of free-to-play online games, text-only games like Battlemaster will slowly continue to dwindle as game-seeking youth gravitates more and more toward the "modern" gaming experience. It's an uncomfortable inevitability. I don't even like saying it. You're hoping we can save the limb, when we clearly need to amputate.
Anyway, I've always been skeptical of "middle-ground" solutions, especially when it comes to conflict resolution, which is my forte. You would think that compromise would be the best solution for most interpersonal conflicts, but the reality is that everyone just feels like the losing party, and resentment builds, which creates more problems than you had in the first place. That's just humanity, I guess.
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There was something you could of done as I stated a few posts back, start the game a fresh giving everyone a new start and a new beginning, or create new smaller continents and put everyone there with there current characters so everyone has to emigrate with their history still intact. Also I am confused why you had to do anything at all the game was good as it was...
To carry on how this is unfair and pretty much daft, by simply destroying half the world gives an unfair advantage to half the populace, with no tax coming in, being hunted by monsters, how are we supposed to go to the other side of the continent and start a fresh where most of our enemies are or others in this scenario? Like they will just welcome us in with welcoming arms.
I understand what you do is volunteered and I respect that, but in my opinion this could have been dealt better rather then annoying half your player base...
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There was something you could of done as I stated a few posts back, start the game a fresh giving everyone a new start and a new beginning, or create new smaller continents and put everyone there with there current characters so everyone has to emigrate with their history still intact.
A "reset" of the game is a death sentence. BattleMaster was never intended to be a game with regular resets. (With the exception of the two now-gone south islands.)
Like they will just welcome us in with welcoming arms.
Have you tried asking? The answer might surprise you.
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Honestly, I think that reverting the western continent of Dwilight to the monsters is going to have a much more negative effect than you think it will. You realize that most of the newer players that are starting to enjoy the game are in places like Asylon, Barca, and Nivemus, while the east is completely dominated by the old elite? Barca is pretty much the one thing keeping me in this game, and I've seen more roleplay going on in that realm than any other that I've been in for the past three years. Besides that, the way Dwilight was split into two continents is what made it special. In this way, you could be assured that one realm couldn't possibly control the politics of the whole island. Compare that to Atamara, East Island, or Far East Island. Atamara has the Caligan Empire, East Island has Perdan, Far East Island has Arcaea. The politics of those islands revolve entirely on those realms, which leads to rather boring, stagnant, linear diplomacy and wars.
Compare that to Dwilight. We have the war between Asylon, Nivemus, and the SA bloc that just finished, and at the same time, we had a war going on with Barca, D'Hara, and Fissoa facing off against Luria Nova. These wars were completely independent of each other, and both involved relatively equal sides. Tell me the last time you saw that? On Atamara, the CE, if it so chose, could intervene in any conflict with relative ease. The same with Perdan or Arcaea. If we were to take away one of Dwilight's continents, what do you think would happen? It would just become another Atamara.
This is my opinion as well. Taking down Western Dwilight to a dull mechanic like enforced massive monster spawns strikes me as an imperfect solution, entirely unfitting with the tone of the game. BattleMaster encourages us to roleplay, and to create our own history. Hell, the main selling point of the game is its vast user created history. The devs have said that there's next to no way that we can fight them off, which I think is a less than optimal solution, considering that western Dwilight is much more interesting than Eastern at the moment.
I'm part of Niselur, and basically, we're forced to either run off towards Eastern Dwilight (which isn't optimal due to the amount of men we'll lose fighting rogues along the way, plus Morek is so entrenched, it'd be hard for us to remain Niselur with the current game mechanics) or remain in Niselur and die, no matter what we do. I don't know, the forced nature of this event doesn't fit with the spirit of the game in my opinion. And really, I joined Battlemaster as Niselur, because the realm (and game) sounded like it would interest me, from what someone said on another forum. And I've enjoyed it quite a lot over the last year I've been playing. But to almost assuredly lose Niselur to something we have no control over? I don't know, it really takes away my desire to continue playing.
If the devs arbitrarily enforce massive monster spawns on Western Dwilight after the migration, which don't even remotely allow recolonization, I sincerely doubt I'll be sticking around at all.
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Maybe the realms of Asylon, Niselur and Barca should organise the emigration together, as it will be hard enough as it is?
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I have not followed recent player/character count, but atleast in Darka we didnt have that much problem with lack of nobility... What i try to say, were Atamara somehow troubleous with lack of nobility?
AA @ BT sure could use some nobles... but this thing doesnt seem to directly effect BT, but ofcourse if half of Atamara is frozen, sure some will move to BT.
-Jaune
I know the character count has been rather low in many of the realms across Atamara; the CE, Tara, and Darka are really the only ones (maybe ML too) that I know to have high counts. While I think it's too early to say half Atamara will be gone, I do think Darka will get hit on the upper edge... It's just unfortunate that the pole (a logical choice for a glacier) isn't necessarily aligned with the density problems.
On a slightly different note, what's going to be the protocol for realm mergers? I don't think any of them would be truly voluntary and land won't be involved, but I can see all of Lyonesse's nobles sticking together and heading to Rieleston or somewhere down South. I'm too lazy to go look at the fine wording of the rule, so sorry if it isn't really an issue, but I figured I should ask.
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Maybe the realms of Asylon, Niselur and Barca should organise the emigration together, as it will be hard enough as it is?
I'm of half a mind to attempt to call the three of us together to organise a spirited defence of a specific part of the western island under a new banner... The United Kingdoms of Western Dwilight, or something of the sort. However, I feel like the devs are too intent on clearing Western Dwilight that it would all be for naught.
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So, if I understand this correctly, Eastern Dwilight has no massive monster spawns atm?
Are the islands of Dhara and Fissoa affected or is it only the mainland? Where does the spawning stop?
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It is good that the Devs are looking into the mechanics to make it easier to ‘immigrate’ and establish new realms and that at least gives me some hope of continuing.
That hope may however be mute for many of us in Western Dwilight for in looking at the constant spawns of monsters of multi thousand CS points it is debatable whether many of us will even be able to concentrate our forces and fight our way to the coast let alone be in any shape to ship out and conquer new lands.
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If they want western realms of Dwilight to invade east continent, devs gotta do something to make sure armies of the west can properly land to the east. Without morale penalties or something.
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My thoughts, for what it's worth.
I tend towards agreeing with those who say it would have been more accepted by the players if an island had been closed. Way back when all of this was first starting to be discussed, someone (possibly Tom?) came up with the idea that the players on the island or islands that were to be closed would be given a chance to invade other islands to try to keep their realms alive. That was a much better idea. It would have created a more exciting and dynamic event for the whole game. Imagine FEI's military powerhouses, the Arcaean Empire and Kindara, invading the EC (for instance).
On the other hand, if the freezing was the only workable thing in terms of Dev time, the freezing should have been more evenly distributed so that it didn't disproportionately effect particular realms. It would have been wiser to come up with some sort of other magical mcguffin that took regions from around the coasts of the islands (flooding, etc). Due to the larger expanse of coastlines in terms of numbers of regions, you'd probably have been able to get the desired results without hugely damaging or destroying specific realms. The code needed to give the effected realms an advantage in migration should also have been in place at the start of the event too, in order to give a boost to player morale in the face of the otherwise negative impact of the event.
The idea that the North or South polls were a random selection technique is nonsense. If you'd have wanted a really random result you could have put a poll up saying "1 to 3 or 4 to 6" to simulate the throwing of dice (or something else that couldn't have been interpreted as being directly linked to the events or geography on the map). Most people probably interpreted North or South as who they prefered in the wars that were going on on each island. Or, simply, which end of the island they liked best.
As has been said, in order for the players to have confidence in this move, it needed to be broadly perceived as fair. Perception is everything in this situation, and the perception of fairness hasn't been good.
My own feelings on the whole thing are a bit "Meh". I don't think it'll improve the situation in any way, as was the intention. But these days I also don't have the emotional attachment to the game to be really annoyed by the bungled (in my opinion) 'Event' either.
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Here's what I think must happen:
(http://s13.postimg.org/lbfwhlwuv/Pangaea.jpg)
This game needs more neighbors to be more lively: more neighbors within (realm mates), and more neighbors beyond (other realms). Cutting out chunks of some continents will partially help with the former, only, but unless we fix something, I do not believe it would be enough to halt the player decay.
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The idea that the North or South polls were a random selection technique is nonsense. If you'd have wanted a really random result you could have put a poll up saying "1 to 3 or 4 to 6" to simulate the throwing of dice (or something else that couldn't have been interpreted as being directly linked to the events or geography on the map).
That would be pretty pointless. If people picked 1-3, and then we announced that 1-3 means that the north gets frozen, then everyone that plays in a northern realm claims that no matter what the answer would be, that we just claimed that the winning answer meant north because we wanted the north to be frozen.
We debated many different methods for selecting the direction of the glaciers. Let's face it, there really is no manner of easily and transparently selecting some criteria for selecting the direction that someone can't claim is biased in some manner.
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Here's what I think must happen:
I hate it. Your modified map still leaves my realm dead. >:( :P
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Although I agree that finding a transparent random selection technique was difficult, asking the question "North or South" was just an extremely bad way because it should have been pretty obvious that people would connect the question to the ongoing wars considering they all have north/south splits.
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What? Tim announces in Feb 1st that some big event related to sinking the islands, and that the increased monster spawn is related to that. Four days later I start a poll on two islands asking only "North or South?". Do you honestly think that people didn't connect the poll to the "T Minus 28 Days" event? Hell, some people even posted ideas that were exactly correct as to what the poll was about. (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,5452.msg124989.html#msg124989).
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I think there was no way to do this without upsetting people. The matter was who do you upset.
If people had known what the polls were about I think people would have just picked whichever side they hate. That means the results are affected by political standings of those who have voted which the dev team tried to avoid.
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What? Tim announces in Feb 1st that some big event related to sinking the islands, and that the increased monster spawn is related to that. Four days later I start a poll on two islands asking only "North or South?". Do you honestly think that people didn't connect the poll to the "T Minus 28 Days" event? Hell, some people even posted ideas that were exactly correct as to what the poll was about. (http://forum.battlemaster.org/index.php/topic,5452.msg124989.html#msg124989).
In the thread you link to, only one person raised the possibility that it was connected to the sinking. Others asked for clarification on what they were meant to be voting on, expressed a preference for one end of the island based on the realms (or lack of them), and one said linking it to the sinking would be deceiving the playerbase. There's nothing there to support the argument that the bulk of voters "really" (wink, wink) knew what they were voting on. The majority of the replies indicate the opposite to be true. Maybe if the poll had been launched by Tim, it would have been different.
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The entire idea of sinking a whole island comes with the obvious caveat that you would tell people which one it is, so they can emigrate if they so choose, thus bolstering the numbers on other islands and allowing players to bring with them their own personal history; the tales of a lost world, etc. I know it's more fun to be secretive and mysterious about these things, but at some point pragmatism has to play a role. If players can simply move their favorite characters, your entire dilemma is avoided.
And I think you're overplaying that dilemma, by the way: for the most part, players tend to spread over multiple islands. I have seen very few family pages where all the characters inhabit a single continent. I don't think people would quit as long as a thorough explanation is given as to why the island was sunk (just tack it right up there above the player's Family in big, yellow letters). That doesn't leave any room to interpret favoritism on the part of the devs, whereas now we are all left to deviously speculate behind your backs.
I can tell you now, if FEI had been sunk, I'd have quit. It wouldn't have been a "You sunk my favourite island so !@#$ you" ragequit, but it would have been a "I've put 99.5% of my BM time into FEI, and am not prepared to start over again from scratch" quit. Which in turn would have taken out my two character on other islands.
Given, I am the ruler of the largest federation on FEI so possibly have more time investment to lose than others, but I find it difficult to believe no one else at all would have felt the same way should their island have been sunk.
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Yeah, but that goes for realms as much as islands. Some people will have put 99.9% of their BM time into a particular realm they like, and they'll quit if it goes under in a way they consider to be unfair. I know this to be true because over the weekend some people have told me they'll do exactly that if the particular realm they like is killed off due to a game event.
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No doubt - it sucks. I wouldn't have been very happy if the FEI frost came from the north, I can tell you. But at least this way you've got a chance to push north and carve out some new territory for yourselves rather than "BAM, you're done; now find a different island".
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No doubt - it sucks. I wouldn't have been very happy if the FEI frost came from the north, I can tell you. But at least this way you've got a chance to push north and carve out some new territory for yourselves rather than "BAM, you're done; now find a different island".
To the point that someone was making about us all being people, and thus having different opinions, I would much prefer to just have everything wiped clean and start anew than have a long drawn out misery.
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Can anyone tell me how the monsters in dwilight are spawned?
Is the rate simply increased?
Is it equally increased everywhere? (rogue regions vs controlled regions)
Will it continue to increase until all nobles have left the west island?
I suppose my question comes down to, is there any hope of defending a duchy on the western island? I want to continue fighting, but i would like to know if it will be a tough battle or an impossible battle.
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To the point that someone was making about us all being people, and thus having different opinions, I would much prefer to just have everything wiped clean and start anew than have a long drawn out misery.
Then I am extremely happy the decision wasn't yours to make. Your way, everyone loses everything. This way, some people lose out, but they're given the chance to keep at least some of what they've built.
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Yeah, but that goes for realms as much as islands. Some people will have put 99.9% of their BM time into a particular realm they like, and they'll quit if it goes under in a way they consider to be unfair. I know this to be true because over the weekend some people have told me they'll do exactly that if the particular realm they like is killed off due to a game event.
This echoes my sentiments perfectly. It wouldn't make sense IC to roleplay anything but fighting to the end of Niselur, but Niselur's doomed to end thanks to this event that, as I mentioned, does not fit well into the spirit of the game. And frankly, once my current character (and Niselur as well) is gone, I doubt I shall stick around. Simply because I do not want to start from scratch. Call it petty if you will, but it'll kill my personal desire to play BM.
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Player density is not enough to add fun the game. Quality over quantity. One player could add more fun than a whole realm of players.
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Player density is not enough to add fun the game. Quality over quantity. One player could add more fun than a whole realm of players.
That is exactly why we need higher player density. We will have a higher chance of getting those good players if we have a denser player base. Also, more people in the same realm or in close proximity means more interactions.
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As for claiming new lands in eastern Dwilight, how are we suppose to do that with no troops?
Recruitment going out of business fast. Even if we do gather an army we will have no way to reinforce.
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You need to unite, try to find realm with low noble count, take it over politically.
-Jaune
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No one can be forced to offer positions to newcomers. Plus there may be a little hatred involved. Past politics and all.
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Yes, but lets say there is 20 nobles joining to another realm. They can alone cause quite a political turmoil and protest out council members.
-Jaune
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I hate it. Your modified map still leaves my realm dead. >:( :P
I went with what was already decided as far as removals go, though I have no idea where the real cut-outs are.
;)
Except for Madina, maybe. I don't think that was said to go away, but no realm is really centered there anyways, so no biggie.
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Yes, but lets say there is 20 nobles joining to another realm. They can alone cause quite a political turmoil and protest out council members.
-Jaune
Yea, and this NEVER causes a ton of OOC drama...
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This was all and all handled really poorly on the Dev's part.
(Not even taking into account that every one of my personal characters gets tossed on his or her tail in this action.)
It took them 28 days to code some flavor text, and turn up monster spawns for no real reason.
This isn't an event, its a let down.
Most of us write more detailed and thought out role plays in half an hours time.
No doubt the coding for closing the regions took a few hours.. but honestly.. way to aim low with wow factor.
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This was all and all handled really poorly on the Dev's part.
(Not even taking into account that every one of my personal characters gets tossed on his or her tail in this action.)
It took them 28 days to code some flavor text, and turn up monster spawns for no real reason.
This isn't an event, its a let down.
If you really think that's all that's been coded, then you haven't even remotely been paying attention.
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These lands that the developers are just wiping out are built in history and player creation. By wiping these out you are removing all that has been achieved which is a real shame.
[...]
Perhaps a better plan would be to reboot the game
You do realize how two statements you made in the same posting are in direct contradiction to each other, yes?
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I believe this was a good idea, something had to be done and other then creating an entire new continent this was the best solution. Why do I like it, eventhough I lose almost all my only truly active character has achieved the last year, simply because it provides a challange. What is a game without challange?
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If you really think that's all that's been coded, then you haven't even remotely been paying attention.
I have been paying attention... To nothing of any relevance happening for 28 days followed by flavor text and a promise of future actions on the supposed d day. I just think it was a lackluster effort over all.
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I have been paying attention... To nothing of any relevance happening for 28 days followed by flavor text and a promise of future actions on the supposed d day. I just think it was a lackluster effort over all.
If you think all this didn't take a lot more effort, you are welcome to write your own BattleMaster clone. Somewhere on the Wiki is an estimate for the amount of effort/time it takes, and after working for about a year on Might & Fealty (http://mightandfealty.com/), even though with BM in my personal history I have most of the concepts ready and could focus on implementing them, that estimate is pretty acurate.
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If you think all this didn't take a lot more effort, you are welcome to write your own BattleMaster clone. Somewhere on the Wiki is an estimate for the amount of effort/time it takes, and after working for about a year on Might & Fealty (http://mightandfealty.com/), even though with BM in my personal history I have most of the concepts ready and could focus on implementing them, that estimate is pretty acurate.
Please don't mistake me. I know you all work hard. I just feel that if you go through the trouble of having a d-day. something should actually physically happen on that day. Regions should fall, something bad and terrible and tragic should happen. Just my opinion really.
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Please don't mistake me. I know you all work hard. I just feel that if you go through the trouble of having a d-day. soothing should actually physically happen on that day.
Seraphen, it seems very likely to me that you don't actually have any characters on the East Continent, Atamara, or the Far East Island. If you did, you'd see that some serious !@#$ actually happened on March 1st.
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Seraphen, it seems very likely to me that you don't actually have any characters on the East Continent, Atamara, or the Far East Island. If you did, you'd see that some serious !@#$ actually happened on March 1st.
both my characters in Atamara are walking through Yule right now. a very small undead unit poped up in outer tell. Yes I know eventually the iceberg will come and wipe the regions out.. but its not march 1st anymore. so d day was more like learn whats going to happen some day soon day.
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both my characters in Atamara are walking through Yule right now. a very small undead unit poped up in outer tell. Yes I know eventually the iceberg will come and wipe the regions out.. but its not march 1st anymore. so d day was more like learn whats going to happen some day soon day.
...which was exactly what was promised.
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Seraphen, it seems very likely to me that you don't actually have any characters on the East Continent, Atamara, or the Far East Island. If you did, you'd see that some serious !@#$ actually happened on March 1st.
Why not Dwilight? I don't get why it was treated differently?
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Why not Dwilight? I don't get why it was treated differently?
Because Dwilight is different in many ways. The two most salient are its history—the western half of the continent was entirely owned by monsters for some time—and its design, with only a few chokepoints necessary to keep the monsters bottled up.
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Because Dwilight is different in many ways. The two most salient are its history—the western half of the continent was entirely owned by monsters for some time—and its design, with only a few chokepoints necessary to keep the monsters bottled up.
So the lands will remain there... just monster-filled? Really?
At least the freezing only sucks for those who get removed. This also sucks for the survivors...
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So the lands will remain there... just monster-filled? Really?
At least the freezing only sucks for those who get removed. This also sucks for the survivors...
How does this suck worse than having the western half fall off into the sea?
I did mention that I was stopping the monsters at bottlenecks. They won't be just spawning massively in the west and then rampaging free across the east.
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How does this suck worse than having the western half fall off into the sea?
I did mention that I was stopping the monsters at bottlenecks. They won't be just spawning massively in the west and then rampaging free across the east.
"Bottlenecks" wasn't clear. I understood it as simply implying that since there are already narrow chokepoints, it was no big deal that big hordes would be roaming around.
I do wonder how long the West will have to agonize, though, before we can move on with it. And how much the process will eat up the continent's already non-existing food reserves and food supply.
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Sorry for the off-topic note, but reading this is like a constant -1 +1 trust in humanity button.
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Hi.
The first thing i did this morning after noticing the event was this:
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Now after couple of coffees and colder head (also after picking up my desk) i realized that ranting on all of it is useless, everything, everyone on this discussion is right, everyone defends their point of view, Devs needed to act, players (including me) are concerned about their realms.
I am REALLY quite angry about the poll thing, if i knew i would have gotten rid of Sirion, Avamar & Erick with Ice until the invention of the Icebreaker, sadly too bad. But what is done is done, we have to live with it or pack up, the Devs have been working hard is not fair for them either, and as a player driven game, is up to us to do something.
SO..... I´m going to take this into a IC approach:
Now to those realms that are being menaced by ice (Ie: Eponllyn) the game have turned into a Survive or Die situation, most would think on abandoning and joining peacefully another realm, but others have to fight their way to survival, this one if what i like more.
We are still not sure on how many months will take for Ice Age to engulf a region, but as the same time you lose a region to ice, you need to get a new one, so here comes my questions to the devs.
- Q1: will the players get an estimate of how much time a region have to be lost to the ice.?
- Q2: Does the migrating realm have a bonus on Take over? not by convincing people, but by mass population migration. Remember we need land for our own we don't care for those we conquer.
- Q3: In the case of the Capital City, is possible to move the capital to the front of war without penalty?
- Q4: Any penalty to the realms losing the region to Ice?
- Q5: There will be any estimation on the duration of this event, or we should take/move to regions like no tomorrow?
There could be more, but i think that depending of the factors, this could be either bad or worse, i am sure like me there are others that are worried of being set into a "Wall or Sword" situation. You see the pill is easier to take if is sweet.
These are my worries as for now....later!
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I am loving the event message today for Dwilight, especially the second part. ;D
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Ha, indeed! Things are getting wild in western Dwilight... At this moment it wouldn't surprise me to see Thor coming through that dimensional hole at all...
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I had to ask this again. IS Beluaterra affected by any of this? If not, why it isn't? If yes, why is nothing happening yet?
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I am loving the event message today for Dwilight, especially the second part. ;D
Yeah...I wonder which peasant was brave enough to taste it??
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I had to ask this again. IS Beluaterra affected by any of this?
No.
If not, why it isn't?
We have other plans for Beluaterra.
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I had to ask this again. IS Beluaterra affected by any of this? If not, why it isn't? If yes, why is nothing happening yet?
Doesn't seem like it is. Don't know why, figured like it would have made sense to just remove it completely, or at least remove Riombara who are so far from everyone else that even their own players despair about the future (from what I could gather from the torture reports, at least).
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To the point that someone was making about us all being people, and thus having different opinions, I would much prefer to just have everything wiped clean and start anew than have a long drawn out misery.
If this is your preference, you can always do this yourself by just pausing your affected character right now, and starting over somewhere else. You have the power to make that choice for yourself.
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No.
We have other plans for Beluaterra.
Interesting. Will it be in the near future or will it be like some sort of invasion?
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Interesting. Will it be in the near future or will it be like some sort of invasion?
It will not be in the immediate future. The details are still TBD.
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Is it possible to just have everyone in a realm join a new realm and then immediately start a rebellion?
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Is it possible to just have everyone in a realm join a new realm and then immediately start a rebellion?
I'm guessing that as with many actions, like changing class, you have to wait a few days first.
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I've gone through and read every single post in this thread. I must say I can understand why some people would be down and whatnot but think of it this way. Wherever you now live, if there was a major disaster what would you do? Would you just sit there and basically wither away or would you move out and try to rebuild?
I don't really have a "main" character but I had contingencies for if something happened to any of my characters. Most of it involved fighting to the bitter end and trying to gain a foothold elsewhere but come on.
What would you do when your main character gets to old to play? when you only get a few hours per turn and it takes a week to move from region to region? Will you quit then? If so weather you leave now or later doesn't really matter imho.
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Yeah...I wonder which peasant was brave enough to taste it??
They're peasants who just had their crops trampled and granaries fouled by monsters, they'll eat anything.
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This should shake things up a bit.
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Gotta say, for the land that is planned on being removed, that's a lot of trouble for the devs and a lot of discontent for players for a very little net gain. Barely anything of FEI, AT, and EC is planned on being removed.
http://topazgryphon.org/~tcollett/bm/ec_glacier_estimate.jpg
http://topazgryphon.org/~tcollett/bm/at_glacier_estimate.jpg
http://topazgryphon.org/~tcollett/bm/fei_glacier_estimate.jpg
BT lost a lot more than what is planned for AT during the invasion, and if it had any effect at all on noble density, it was quickly masked by player decay.
If that's all that is being cut out, we'll be back to pre-ice age player densities on those continents in no time.
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I assume a colony takeover will be made available soon?
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I assume a colony takeover will be made available soon?
You won't need one. You'll be able to just keep expanding your realm.
...Did I forget to mention that part? Damn.
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If that's all that is being cut out, we'll be back to pre-ice age player densities on those continents in no time.
And if that's the case, then as I've said repeatedly, the glaciers will just keep moving.
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BT lost a lot more than what is planned for AT during the invasion, and if it had any effect at all on noble density, it was quickly masked by player decay.
BT didn't "lose" very many regions, considering we also won some back from the blight. I would also posit that any player decay there could also be attributed to the post-war lull.
Look at your projection map for AT. How many cities and strongholds is that, just completely gone? Five? That's, to quote Joe Biden, a big !@#$in' deal.
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I assume a colony takeover will be made available soon?
I'm pretty sure you can? Unless it got removed, though I didn't think you needed it anymore as long as you had coast access and the target region is on the coast.
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And if that's the case, then as I've said repeatedly, the glaciers will just keep moving.
Is a ton of painful moves better than a single painful move? I don't know about you, but when I get my teeth pulled out, I'd rather they all get pulled at the same time.
BT didn't "lose" very many regions, considering we also won some back from the blight. I would also posit that any player decay there could also be attributed to the post-war lull.
Look at your projection map for AT. How many cities and strongholds is that, just completely gone? Five? That's, to quote Joe Biden, a big !@#$in' deal.
True, some regions got unblighted.
As for AT, that's 2 forts and 3 tiny cities, and a bunch of badlands. They look like the least meaningful regions on the continent.
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Some people have to stop complaining.
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Is a ton of painful moves better than a single painful move? I don't know about you, but when I get my teeth pulled out, I'd rather they all get pulled at the same time.
Are you expecting the glacier to just sit where it is for a month, then leap forward to cover all that territory? When I say "keep moving," I mean "keep moving." As in, rather than come to a certain place and stop, it will keep slowly moving forward.
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I am REALLY quite angry about the poll thing, if i knew i would have gotten rid of Sirion, Avamar & Erick with Ice
Which is exactly why we didn't tell you. We did not want to have people turn this into a weapon and make it all a huge pissing contest.
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I'm not on AT, EC, and FEI, and I'm not sure you are talking about me, but I think that such a drastic measure should, if taken, go all the way. Can't take half-measures with things like these.
The regions affected look so small, that it almost looks as if only one realm per continent is really being affected. If I were in one of them, I know I'd feel cheated. For what gain? I don't know how many regions are on EC, but that's a removal of about 14 regions on a continent that has 279 nobles. Will it really significantly impact player density?
Are you expecting the glacier to just sit where it is for a month, then leap forward to cover all that territory? When I say "keep moving," I mean "keep moving." As in, rather than come to a certain place and stop, it will keep slowly moving forward.
Can't talk for everyone, but were it me, I'd rather it all be over with quickly than agonize over it ad eternum. As you very well know, in BM, when crisises prop up, the general reaction is peacelock. Forcing a long crisis on people will force them to adapt, bit by bit, to their new condition as the situation evolves. The approaching ice will absorb all of their attention, diverting it away from realm-to-realm interactions.
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Can't talk for everyone, but were it me, I'd rather it all be over with quickly than agonize over it ad eternum.
The purpose of making it slow is not agony but giving people time to move out, start a war, conquer new land and shift their realm there. If we'd just dump a ton of ice on their heads, they'd just be dead, end of story. This way there is at least the potential for great stories of peoples displaced by the cold fighting for new Lebensraum somewhere else.
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A New Resolve (58 minutes ago)
Tonight, having feasted well, the peasants seem to show a new resolve and determination, with one clear goal: Find, or make, a new homeland away from these monsters. More begin to show up at the recruitment centers, and those already recruited and the newly signing declare quite firmly that they don't care how far they have to go or if they don't get paid (much) until they have a new homeland: they're in this to make a new start.
As rumours of these events begin to come back to those in the eastern lands, the peasants and minor nobles alike begin to speak in worried tones of what is to come. Do all these strange events presage a terrifying migration of armies out of the west, bent on carving new homes out of their own lands in the east?
May i ask, does this mean western armies will be immune to morale loss so we can try and invade east.
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The purpose of making it slow is not agony but giving people time to move out, start a war, conquer new land and shift their realm there. If we'd just dump a ton of ice on their heads, they'd just be dead, end of story. This way there is at least the potential for great stories of peoples displaced by the cold fighting for new Lebensraum somewhere else.
Are they really going to do that?
Last time things were tried to incite people to go to war, they did not pan out. Under duress, people do not go to war, not in this game.
Giving people time to prepare and move out, sure thing, we don't need to go around and remove the ground under people's feet. But I have serious doubts that taking slice by slice will really bring the behavior you seem to seek.
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Are they really going to do that?
If they don't, then they will simply die. We can lead the horse to water, but we can't prevent him from dying of dehydration if he's really determined to do so.
Last time things were tried to incite people to go to war, they did not pan out. Under duress, people do not go to war, not in this game.
This is very, very different than bolting people and screaming at them to go to war. Actively pushing people out of their regions makes for a much stronger incentive than simply telling them, "You have to go to war now!"
Giving people time to prepare and move out, sure thing, we don't need to go around and remove the ground under people's feet. But I have serious doubts that taking slice by slice will really bring the behavior you seem to seek.
Well, we can always make the glacier move faster....
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I'm pretty sure you can? Unless it got removed, though I didn't think you needed it anymore as long as you had coast access and the target region is on the coast.
CTOs were removed when the new takeover system was implemented. It's true that the coast access system made it a lot less needed.
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Remember "we'll turn the food production down to force them to go to war to loot for food, otherwise, they will die"?
I'm not really aware of all the details of your intents, though, so maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm way off. But there is still a good chance that, indeed, they WILL die, and then they'll come whine about it.
I'd like to say that even a sudden targetting of half the continent wouldn't need instantly killing the realms without giving the players a chance to move elsewhere. The changes could be gradual in effect, instead of in geography. You could take up half of the continent, and then slowly apply things like dwindling production and shortage of materials (no building). If the new recruits won't work on gold, then what's gold good for anyways? Have the regions remain in existance, but with no more value to them. Perhaps give all nobles there the option to recruit troops directly from the regions themselves, much as the hero mechanic, and not just at the capital with the morale cost. The progress of the cold would not be in territory covered, but, for example, in the loss of population to the cold, until the regions are all uninhabited. That way, the players still have time to prepare, there's no nasty surprises about where the line will eventually be drawn or not, and there's no (less) feeling cheated on the part of the first affected.
Maybe you could just poll them, to. "Would you rather the changes be quick, or gradual?" Having a say in their loss might make them feel less powerless, and thus less resentful.
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Remember "we'll turn the food production down to force them to go to war to loot for food, otherwise, they will die"?
Wasn't my call. Obviously that was never going to work, because without food, you can't sustain anything for more than a couple of days.
I'm not really aware of all the details of your intents, though, so maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm way off. But there is still a good chance that, indeed, they WILL die, and then they'll come whine about it.
I'm absolutely sure this is what some of them will do. And when they do, I will relate to them the story of the man in the flood who ignored the boats and helicopter sent to save him.
I'd like to say that even a sudden targetting of half the continent wouldn't need instantly killing the realms without giving the players a chance to move elsewhere. The changes could be gradual in effect, instead of in geography. You could take up half of the continent, and then slowly apply things like dwindling production and shortage of materials (no building).
That's actually much harder to calibrate the right speed for, because if you go over for just a little while, bam! everyone's dead already. If we push the glacier a little too fast for a while, well, you'll have lost some more regions, but the ones you have will still be in as good shape as they were before.
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The idea I was trying to relate would imply that after X time, staying in their realms wouldn't give them anything, but they'd still have their units, Y (much longer) time to go about and use these units in a military manner (should they chose), effectively granting a total of X+Y time. This Y time is a buffer zone where it is painfully clear that there is nothing left for them to stay for, and as such they can accept that fact and then move on to do something about their fates.
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Can they also given a new way to recruit as well? Some realms are losing their capitals as well along with most of their cities at the same time. Maybe allowing them to recruit anywhere within their territory might help them greatly.
Also, maybe having built in siege engines might be good as well since once they lose their cities, it will be impossible for these people to get siege engines to assault any city.
It would also be nice to have cheaper embark fee or being able to embark anywhere.
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In the FEI map (and likely the others, too) there are regions that only get partly covered. Apelen and Batesaor, for instance, only have their southern tips covered. Will those regions still be completely inaccessible?
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In the FEI map (and likely the others, too) there are regions that only get partly covered. Apelen and Batesaor, for instance, only have their southern tips covered. Will those regions still be completely inaccessible?
First off, please do note that it's a rough estimate. Depending on the density situation, they may end up frozen, or they may not.
That said, as you will begin to see over the next couple of days, there are a few stages of freezing, and while most of the "frozen" regions will be completely inaccessible, the outermost layer will be regions you can travel through, but not own, with no peasants living there.
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That said, as you will begin to see over the next couple of days, there are a few stages of freezing, and while most of the "frozen" regions will be completely inaccessible, the outermost layer will be regions you can travel through, but not own, with no peasants living there.
Does that mean the region won't be starving? Since there is no mouth to feed? No provision wasted? ;)
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Does that mean the region won't be starving? Since there is no mouth to feed? No provision wasted? ;)
The reason you use up provisions in starving regions—and on the sea—is because there is no food to be foraged in the area.
If there's nothing living in the region, where do you think you'll be foraging food...?
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The reason you use up provisions in starving regions—and on the sea—is because there is no food to be foraged in the area.
If there's nothing living in the region, where do you think you'll be foraging food...?
Could be food without people, ex: overabundant game, berries, and the sorts. ;)
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Could be food without people, ex: overabundant game, berries, and the sorts. ;)
Nope. It's all dead.
You might be able to live there for a little while if you like pine needles.
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Nope. It's all dead.
You might be able to live there for a little while if you like pine needles.
Eat polar bears!
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Eat polar bears!
Maybe in another several decades, when they actually move in...
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Maybe in another several decades, when they actually move in...
Seals! ;)
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Nope. It's all dead.
You might be able to live there for a little while if you like pine needles.
I hear monsters and trolls are rather tasty when cooked.
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I hear monsters and trolls are rather tasty when cooked.
Any of my characters will testify to that!
On a more serious note, it's been said that if you don't move, you will die... How serious are we about this? If I leave a character there, does he get killed or just automatically pushed to the next region? I'm thinking this would be a cool way to finally end one of my characters and might roleplay it if the event isn't actually lethal to characters, but I want to have some idea before I really make the decision.
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Careful with those bear and seal livers. ;)
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This is disappointing their is a vote now to abandon the lands and move... no in-game reason is promoting such a vote or actions. This is what I was truly afraid of... OOC is becoming ingame motivations. How does onYeses noble know they should abandon their lands? How does a noble acknowledge leaving his people to monster or the undead? What nobles realize the end of their realm is near and hold a vote to abandon...
Monster come invasions come but the idea of abandoning realm and country... dark times truly. How did our nobles come to such conclusions... I would assume it was simply mating season...
moderator note: IG messages deleted per forum rules.
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One thing I have witnessed is that many players start to behave like this game wont exist for way longer.
You will be surprise to know that many players just see the Order messages of the day and click button like they eating their lunch daily. Personally I am surprise to see players following orders when I assume they don't. Players are quiet at times. So go out, give your Order and see how their response to this event ;)
Sorry for the off-topic note, but reading this is like a constant -1 +1 trust in humanity button.
As I say in my next quote reply, are humanity going to make their last stand? An alliance of human? For EC, alliance of human and elves, that would be a bit far fetched? ::)
This should shake things up a bit.
Yes indeed this should shake things up. A lot of people are worrying, some defiant to the end and will fight to death. Some are waiting to see on the sidelines how the event unfold. Not sure if any are migrating just yet.
May i ask, does this mean western armies will be immune to morale loss so we can try and invade east.
I am thinking along the line that those affected by the glaciers will have higher morale to move farther and relocate to safer distance. Without "far from home" morale penalty of course. But that is not my call.
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Blue Star,
Why would you post that? You're complaining about something being OOC, but I don't think you've been paying attention to the IC discussions going on the past few days in the realm. That referendum isn't binding anyways, but you shouldn't be posting possibly sensitive IC info on the forums... You can RP your character however you want, but don't expect others to do the same. I was in the same camp as you up until todady even though I knew OOC the West was done, however even my character is starting to realize looking at the hordes, RP messages, and talking to other nobles that the situation is becoming untenable.
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Blue Star why on earth would you post such IC info on an OOC board. Do you even realize the damage you have just done to the RP of your own realm?
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;) Sure will RP the way I want yawns.. i've almost accepted the position to freeze/infest the islands... almost
Damaging mm perhaps since it is gone, should of been a bit more ambiguous ill admit to that.
However, if I am not mistaken and I don't believe so for all the messages on Dwilight is it not the sole contient that is focused on RPing? What nobles vote on abandoning their realm? What nobles consider abandoning their lively hood? I am not directly attempting to point a finger at who created such a vote. I am pointing a finger at the event itself and informing us of it.
Any realm affected will move accordingly, but now geez is everyone going to go buddy up and join their friends on the western contient or become Perdans or Tarans?
I heard all this concerning culture and history, but are people going to really leave that behind?
Perhaps i'm just to passionate about the culture of realms and had bright endeavors that will never take root and bear fruit upon the tree I planned to eat from.
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It's finding a balance. While I agree with you that abandoning our realm as easily as this is rather strange RP-wise, it's common sense to not let everything you have get raped before you leave. A balance between realism in RP and having fun in the game (since not everyone likes being raped if it's fun to RP)
Hence why I tried explaining it trough religion, and large religions saying it's inevitable might force a massive migration. Try to explain us using common sense IC, see that as a challenge, and don't try to correct players for playing how they want to play, because the chance of succes there is nigh inexistant.
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I think what Blue Star complains about is the lack of a "realistic" procedure in a realm's nobility towards a threat. They vote to decide if they leave or not, and the "yes" option means to leave behind land, culture, etc. I'll say what I think about it, comparing it to Europe in Medieval times.
1. Comparing to real world, the colonisation of Dwilight started less than 30 years ago, if I'm right. It was colonised by nobles (players), who formed their realms to rule upon a civil "native" population.
2. That means that, from a real word perspective, nobles pretty much arrived to a continent to stablish their lands and get profit of them. A lot of them couldn't even RP that their families were natives and entered the Nobility, since maybe a player created his first character in another Continent, so his home is out of Dwilight.
Think of the Normans when they took control in England.
3. I'm sure you know that not all nobles in a kingdom or realm have decided to fight 'till death to protect it from a foreign threat when they knew it would be in vain. Even if it was the land of their ancestors. Think of the conquest of the remains of the Byzantine Empire. When Costantinopolis fell, many of them fled to other Christian kingdoms, even being Orthodox. Okay, it was their capital. It leads us to point number 4.
4. They're monsters, dude! Even if nobles in BM has fought against them constantly, realms are overwhelmed! Put a Dwilightean noble's shoes on! You're a highborn who takes profit on the work of native peasants, which are assimilating your culture because it's been imposed by their rulers, in the case of Barca, less than 20 years ago. You will fight hard to keep your lands, but if hordes of howling monsters threaten every corner of your realm, won't you make your valises and try to find a new land?
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That ice thing on those links looks horrible as Darkan, but something we prolly can live with, not sure if survive against CE after over 1/3 of our realm is under ice. I really hope it will stop there and wont go any further. This will hit more hard ML & Rielston & Lyoness, and i'm sure it will put some serious pressure towards, especially Silnaria and prolly to Tara too, cause ML really needs more space to stay as realm which has weight.
But as people have said already, this doesnt directly effect the strongest block on AT, vice versa it make it stronger cause it reduces 2 big realms out from balance. I dont see that is possible realistically Darkans to join many of the realms left on island incase Darka collapses at some point. Some would sure find new home from mayby Talerium and mayby Rielston(which propalby end up to be few region realm unless they go war with Eston or Darka.
So, i'm afraid Atamara might lose good chunk of characters/players. But i bet situation might get more intresting if CE finds itself bored and decides to take active role on southern war... But, lets first see how Darka will survive from this. We are still holding pretty good stack of gold and if we are able to draft enough troops to keep our army running, we will survive for a year or 2 :)
-jaune
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So for the migration bonus, is that for all realms with land in the west, or only those wholly there? Astrum and D'Hara have a number of regions on the western subcontinent, a score of them are key historical regions that played major roles in the realms' pasts. 7 of D'Hara's regions are there. Are these realms gonna get the option to deplete their western regions of peasants for extra troops to head East with?
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So now, because IC information has been posted OOC, bluestar, are we allowed to change our IC choices, knowing others will have read this information you posted, and most definitely act IG to prevent us from doing that? Or is that not allowed either?
I can't believe you just posted that...
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8) hello!
-jaune
I may think that this will push the northern realms to ally themselves again to fight the central area once again, but this will take time, because i believe that they will fight each other first. Then you will see many Viking Hordes marching south pillaging for food and land.
Remember that migration have an advantage over past wars, in the past (ie Conquering): you had to conquer the people, then you had to either create a colony (this IS the Flaw i hate from game)or suffer the consequences of terrain expansion by losing morale due to Capital Distance . Migration will solve the problem of creating a future enemy, by replacing everything with your nobles.
Saying that players will leave is too much, i know a lot of historical value and time put into these regions is important, but it will be interesting to see a REAL "War For Food & Land", than just going to war because is a war game and game mechanic makes you do so.
In General my thoughts are that Atamara will become active, i do not think this will change the Power balance on the continent, but at least will be active.
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That ice thing on those links looks horrible as Darkan, but something we prolly can live with, not sure if survive against CE after over 1/3 of our realm is under ice. I really hope it will stop there and wont go any further. This will hit more hard ML & Rielston & Lyoness, and i'm sure it will put some serious pressure towards, especially Silnaria and prolly to Tara too, cause ML really needs more space to stay as realm which has weight.
But as people have said already, this doesnt directly effect the strongest block on AT, vice versa it make it stronger cause it reduces 2 big realms out from balance. I dont see that is possible realistically Darkans to join many of the realms left on island incase Darka collapses at some point. Some would sure find new home from mayby Talerium and mayby Rielston(which propalby end up to be few region realm unless they go war with Eston or Darka.
So, i'm afraid Atamara might lose good chunk of characters/players. But i bet situation might get more intresting if CE finds itself bored and decides to take active role on southern war... But, lets first see how Darka will survive from this. We are still holding pretty good stack of gold and if we are able to draft enough troops to keep our army running, we will survive for a year or 2 :)
-jaune
Pretty sure Darka gets migration bonuses. meaning Darka can travel as far as they want without suffering morale penalty. Also cheaper units.
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I am REALLY quite angry about the poll thing, if i knew i would have gotten rid of Sirion, Avamar & Erick with Ice
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAA. Love is in the air.
I'm sad more because even with all the bonuses, it's hard to realize Asylon marching with an army. Instead, we will have to find another way to take a new realm from inside. I will lose my beloved Itau, the city I built from almost 0.
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I will lose my beloved Itau, the city I built from almost 0.
I know, right. Same with me and Twainville. Try finding 90/70 infantry, together with 70/70 infantry. And now we must just meekly (or otherwise) piss off elsewhere and do whatever there. And I can't muster any enthusiasm to propose fighting back against the rogues. Similarly, and because of the prior, I can't muster any enthusiasm to do anything else.
Everything just tastes fake.
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I can build another cities 8)
My characters are excellent Dukes and Margraves, after all :)
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I can build another cities 8)
My characters are excellent Dukes and Margraves, after all :)
Nope...you can inherit another city. Big difference :(
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Then you don't know my characters and how they rebuild the cities they inherit. Otherwise people would hate just Erik, but they hate Avamar in extension. Even Sirion in extension.
Nothing like found Averoth in the old days, but it's always a good challenge even taking a city already populated and "ready". When I began, my dream is to have my first Duke. After that, being Duke in Sirion. Years to achieve. Avamar was already there, but now I have no doubts that the region have his face.
Henrich is younger. He built Itau, he gave siege engines to the hordes to assault Astrum. He will find another city to take.
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Are there any limits to how many nobles you can ban?
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I don't think so, but you will face the same amount of protests. The problem of banish an entire clan (or an entire migration) is that with the right number and support they will kick any Judge by protests.
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I don't think so, but you will face the same amount of protests. The problem of banish an entire clan (or an entire migration) is that with the right number and support they will kick any Judge by protests.
But they'll still be banned, and the ruler can appoint a new judge (if they don't protest him out too); after that a new one will be elected and the ban will have gone into effect (I think) before the elections go through. But that's if the target realm is hostile and you all go to the same place; imagine if instead of all going to the same place, you had 10 go here, 10 go there, 10 go to another realm. You could potentially subvert all of them, what fun!
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Yes... and in theory, you can do it forever.
I can only think about some Total War games when you have the system of hordes, moving until take some lands. After that, if they're crushed, they just do the same again in another weak region. Turmoil and conquerer. Well organized, it can shake entire continents.
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Thats why the old: "Migrate -> be silent-> be nice-> start a plot-> get troops->Station on Capital-> Rebel" always works. 10-15 nobles doing this can take any realm by surprise.
But i like more the "Marching and Taking" approach more. 8) Still must heard about the Moving Capital Rules for this case.
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No one will receive a horde of immigrants with good eyes. We will have to find a way to surpass the "be silent" and "be nice" in some cases.
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No one will receive a horde of immigrants with good eyes. We will have to find a way to surpass the "be silent" and "be nice" in some cases.
I like my immigrants like I like my bats: Blind.
Though I'm guessing you meant to say that the current citizens/nobility would have to be blind not to notice an influx of immigrants... In which case, you're right.
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Thats why the old: "Migrate -> be silent-> be nice-> start a plot-> get troops->Station on Capital-> Rebel" always works. 10-15 nobles doing this can take any realm by surprise.
It's also extremely lame.
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It's also extremely lame.
Yea, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen.
Did we ever see this kind of mass migration before?
The only case, more or less similar, than I can think of is the shutting down of the war islands. And it did precisely that: war island cliques rose up in Dwilight to go form their colonies. If it wasn't for all the free land, they'd have taken over the realms instead.
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Did we ever see this kind of mass migration before?
There have been some on FEI when certain realms have been defeated.
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The realms being displaced on Dwilight make up 3 of the top 5 realms in terms of player count, including the #1 and #2 spots. The East is about to be demolished.
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From the looks of it. Military invasion seems unlikely as monsters will eat up armies that are planning to head to the coast and set sails. Maybe make like a line of regions clear of monsters so western realms armies can travel through safely towards the coast to embark?
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From the looks of it. Military invasion seems unlikely as monsters will eat up armies that are planning to head to the coast and set sails. Maybe make like a line of regions clear of monsters so western realms armies can travel through safely towards the coast to embark?
Its bad enough that our realms are getting crunched - now our sense of achievement must be taken away as well? :P
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The realms being displaced on Dwilight make up 3 of the top 5 realms in terms of player count, including the #1 and #2 spots. The East is about to be demolished.
Its not only the East of Dwilight that is targeted. Below are the CS of monsters seen in some regions of Morek right now:
4450
7250
4350
3950
3600
12400
7500
And they are still increasing every day.. not sure if this is a bug or other realms on the West of Dwlight are also seeing this?
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That's great, will make it not-impossible for us immigrants to come and colonise you.
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They'll wait for you on the coastlines.
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Oh man, imagine making a coastal landing, and finding 15,000 CS of monsters waiting for you.... Ouch!
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Could it be possible to tune down rogue infestions a bit(Atamara)? It makes this migrating and conquering thing a bit hard while having rogues all over, dunno if these infestions are kicking in otherparts of continent too...
-Jaune
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Could it be possible to tune down rogue infestions a bit(Atamara)? It makes this migrating and conquering thing a bit hard while having rogues all over, dunno if these infestions are kicking in otherparts of continent too...
-Jaune
We are having the same problems on Dwilight. Can't recruit or even leave. I'm really hoping we don't have to try and pull off some inter-realm rebellion in the East. I think being able to fight for land is more fun and better for both parties involved as it doesn't necessarily wipe out a whole realm.
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21:15 <@Delvin_Anaris> I've turned it back down already
So, you dont bug him about the same issue :)
-Jaune
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Without turning this into a political or IG conversation, does Darka really need to migrate? The oncoming ice will just displace some nobles, not leave them homeless, right?
Lyonesse isn't really being affected by the non-Snow Troll monsters, but the ice does leave almost all of our nobles homeless (using current borders). We have to move.
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We need atleast a bit more land to cover up our land/income losses to being able to fight against CE.
We have 65 active characters and we will lose about 9-10 regions with quick look on that map, including 2 duchies. Ofcourse we get few more exLyoness regions, so it might be that we can live with the current setup, but... More is always better :P
-Jaune
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We need atleast a bit more land to cover up our land/income losses to being able to fight against CE.
We have 65 active characters and we will lose about 9-10 regions with quick look on that map, including 2 duchies. Ofcourse we get few more exLyoness regions, so it might be that we can live with the current setup, but... More is always better :P
-Jaune
I keep forgetting that it's really that much; the peninsula has always felt like one region since it's the heart of Darka hahaha That makes a lot more sense now, though. Good timing on the Lyonesse war for you guys, actually. It's a little convoluted to think about, but it's how it worked out.
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Without turning this into a political or IG conversation, does Darka really need to migrate? The oncoming ice will just displace some nobles, not leave them homeless, right?
You also assume the ice stops where the current plans show it to. Personally, I'm not that optimistic :)