New Estate System

[fodder]

i think you add all your income up (your estate + your lord share) then deduct all your expenses, then you divide what's left between you and your duke.

[cjnodell]

That would make the most sense...

[Jens Namtrah]

"Duchies are their own entities now, meaning the duke does not have to be the lord of the duchy capital. In fact, there is no such thing as a duchy capital. The duke does not even have to be a lord. In addition, duchies can be created and dissolved, with some limitations. "

I take it to mean the Ruler can basically create a title of Duke, and let him convince lords to swear to him?

Very nice! This plays into an idea I had only thought I would be able to RP before.  I hope this breaks up our Duke staleness issues.

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also, Lord of a City/stronghold is not necessarily a Duke? Just a very powerful lord

[Chenier]

If duchies aren't tied to cities anymore...

What creates a duke?

Or are they still tied, you just don't need to be lord of the namesake city to be the duke anymore?

[Indirik]

eh... they claim it.. and then you boot them out the same turn/next turn? it doesn't cost a thing to mess around with estates, does it?

Cost as in money? No. I am not sure if Tom will eventually add an hours cost for the lord resizing/creating/deleting estates. As far as claiming/abandoning estates, you can only do one action per turn. It doesn't "cost" anything.

tax rate... you can't collect more tax from a region with higher tax rates any more?

Lords still set the tax rate for the region. This has not changed. But taxes collected from vacant estates or wild lands only give half the normal amount.

ounds as if a region has X peasants and produces Y.. then that's it. you can divy it up how you want.. but won't get more out of it (until estates do something?)

No, the income equation is still the same as always: GoldRating X TaxRate X %Production X #ofDays

But if 25% of the region is vacant/wild, then that 25% will generate half revenue, or 12.5%. Instead of 100% of the gold generated, you get the 75% from the occupied land, plus the 12.5% from the vacant/wild land, for a total of 87.5 %.

[Indirik]

I'm interested to know if there's going to be a way of hiding things from those higher up. So for example, if my Lord wanted to hide some of his/her gold and keep it for themselves, could they do that?

There is currently no "Hide your income" function. But if you don't want to pay realm share, then just make sure there is no Duchy Share. Since the realm share comes out of the Duke's incomes, then make sure the Duke's income is 0.

Also, what about trade income? Is it split the same way as it is now? Or will estates play some hand in how that income gets split up?

For now, I think it is dumped into the general region tax pool.

[Indirik]

"Duchies are their own entities now, meaning the duke does not have to be the lord of the duchy capital. In fact, there is no such thing as a duchy capital. The duke does not even have to be a lord. In addition, duchies can be created and dissolved, with some limitations. "

I take it to mean the Ruler can basically create a title of Duke, and let him convince lords to swear to him?

Rulers can create a new duchy from any city or townsland who's lord is not already a duke. The ruler waves his magic wand and *poof* that lord is the duke of a new duchy. The ruler cannot make new duchies out of thin air. There has to be a reasonably wealthy/powerful region from which to create the duchy. To make this easy at the start of the new system, it will be limited to cities/strongholds/townslands. That requirement may change later.

also, Lord of a City/stronghold is not necessarily a Duke?

Correct.

[Indirik]

If duchies aren't tied to cities anymore...

What creates a duke?

The ruler selects a city/stronghold/townsland who's lord is not already a duke and promotes them to the rank of Duke. This removes that region from its prior duchy, and makes it a new, one-region duchy.

Or are they still tied, you just don't need to be lord of the namesake city to be the duke anymore?

There is not tie. There is no such thing as a "duchy capital" or "duchy center". If the duke is not the lord of the city, then the city can change to be part of a different duchy. Or the ruler could make the lord of that city the duke of a new duchy.

[Chenier]

So... what are rulers making into duchies/dukes? If dukes don't need to be lords, and there are no duchy centre, doesn't that allow for infinite duchies?

Edit: not infinite duchies, but still more duchies then there are cities+strongholds+townslands.

[Zakilevo]

I think the duke has to be initially a lord of a townsland or stronghold or city.

[Ramiel]

I think the duke has to be initially a lord of a townsland or stronghold or city.

I dont think so :S A Duchy just needs to contain one of those? Or is that only for succession?

[Solari]

I dont think so :S A Duchy just needs to contain one of those? Or is that only for succession?

Duchies can only be created from cities, strongholds, and towns.  The duke can be any lord from a region in the duchy, but that opens up the Duke (the one with the city) to leave the duchy useless by joining another.  I don't believe the question of townlands seceding has been covered, but unless we're allowing recruiting in towns now it would seem to be a non-starter. 

This change seems less about making millions of dukes (sorry folks) and more about giving the rulers some control over dukes, who can ruin realms through incompetence or intransigence.

[Phellan]

If tax day is coming and no one has claimed the estate I can take that 20% back to my estate and suffer no loss in gold?

Does all this similarly affect food production? If not, why? It would make sense to me that vacant estates and wild lands only produce 50% food...

Tax gold is collected daily currently, as such I expect it will be the same with the new system.   Thus you'd lose 50% gold from the days it was NOT part of your estate, but get 100% gold production from when it was.   

I would hope the rationale is that regions are always farmed / maintained by peasants - but it's only the tax collectors from the Estate who half ass it when they don't have a noble man breathing down their necks to get the job done.   The peasants don't really care if there is a lord - they need to farm to feed themselves and their families.

[fodder]

Lords still set the tax rate for the region. This has not changed. But taxes collected from vacant estates or wild lands only give half the normal amount.
No, the income equation is still the same as always: GoldRating X TaxRate X %Production X #ofDays

But if 25% of the region is vacant/wild, then that 25% will generate half revenue, or 12.5%. Instead of 100% of the gold generated, you get the 75% from the occupied land, plus the 12.5% from the vacant/wild land, for a total of 87.5 %.

wait... region tax rate and a lord's cut are different things? now that you mention is... i can see it in the pic..  doh!

The ruler selects a city/stronghold/townsland who's lord is not already a duke and promotes them to the rank of Duke. This removes that region from its prior duchy, and makes it a new, one-region duchy.

what happens if a duchy does not have a city/town any more? let's say a duke+lord+knight of a city in a duchy of 1 city + 1 rural gives up title of lord of city and the new lord flips to different duchy of same realm.
the duke becomes duke of 1 rural region, lord of nothing and knight of nothing?

[Draco Tanos]

what happens if a duchy does not have a city/town any more? let's say a duke+lord+knight of a city in a duchy of 1 city + 1 rural gives up title of lord of city and the new lord flips to different duchy of same realm.
the duke becomes duke of 1 rural region, lord of nothing and knight of nothing?

I'm actually very curious with this as well.