What did we lose? What did we gain? 4th Inv aftermath

[Tom]

Actually... ehm... that was one of the many storylines that went undiscovered during the 3rd invasion. The Daimons had grasped that humans can be influenced through religion. They set up or infiltrated several religions and secret societies. :-D

[Sypher]

You chose your "evils". You continuously fought alongside Sint, and betrayed the realm that founded you over a fringe religion having but a handful of followers in it (and even having greater numbers of followers and temples in other realms). Sint worshipped the invaders as gods, tried to summon their "destroyer" god, and unleashed their armies against the other realms of the continent. The Blood Cult did...

Yet it was the greater evil? No, the Blood Cult was a pretext. There were a *lot* of clues that were picked up that Mesh would eventually betray Enweil, it came as a surprise only to those too blinded by the memories of the old days.

Basically all realms engaged in long walks to fight the daimons. Rio did, Enweil did, all according to their abilities and opportunities. Considering this, Mesh did not do any more than anyone else. Hell, considering they had much greater opportunity and capacity to act, they did considerably less than many.

Yes we were allied with Sint for a time but not because we liked them or suddenly forgot what they did during the war. We allied them to fight the Daimons at Jopo's Mouth. It was considered a necessary evil to fighting the Daimons at the time. Given the right opportunity and ability to do so we would have been glad to see Sint get what it deserved despite their supposed repenting of their ways after the 3rd invasion.

Also, considering various individuals within the Blood Cult were part of the Netherworld we did think they were a big threat. We thought the Daimons were using it as a way to gain influence in human realms.

[Tom]

Also, considering various individuals within the Blood Cult were part of the Netherworld we did think they were a big threat. We thought the Daimons were using it as a way to gain influence in human realms.

And you were right. :-)

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Yeah, until Valachi decided to badmouth Sherilynn. Then the Blood Cult pretty much got slaughtered. Valachi Stefanovic obviously was executed. Vistuvis Adriddae was fed to minor daemons, Malfurion Stormrage, am I missing anyone?

[Chenier]

Yeah, until Valachi decided to badmouth Sherilynn. Then the Blood Cult pretty much got slaughtered. Valachi Stefanovic obviously was executed. Vistuvis Adriddae was fed to minor daemons, Malfurion Stormrage, am I missing anyone?

Without looking at my archives, I think thats it for daimon-induced death (my apologies to whoever I'm forgetting if this isn't the case).

Yes we were allied with Sint for a time but not because we liked them or suddenly forgot what they did during the war. We allied them to fight the Daimons at Jopo's Mouth. It was considered a necessary evil to fighting the Daimons at the time. Given the right opportunity and ability to do so we would have been glad to see Sint get what it deserved despite their supposed repenting of their ways after the 3rd invasion.

Yes we were allied with Sint for a time but not because we liked them or suddenly forgot what they did during the war. We allied them to fight the Daimons at Jopo's Mouth. It was considered a necessary evil to fighting the Daimons at the time. Given the right opportunity and ability to do so we would have been glad to see Sint get what it deserved despite their supposed repenting of their ways after the 3rd invasion.

Also, considering various individuals within the Blood Cult were part of the Netherworld we did think they were a big threat. We thought the Daimons were using it as a way to gain influence in human realms.

Also, considering various individuals within the Blood Cult were part of the Netherworld we did think they were a big threat. We thought the Daimons were using it as a way to gain influence in human realms.

You didn't ally sint to fight daimons, you allied them to fight Enweil. And after that war ended, you intervened in the same bloc as them again, this time to fight realms like Bara'Khur where the Cult had no members or influence.

And you were right. :-)

The level of the influence is debatable, and it went both ways. I founded the blood cult, and led it for 99% of its lifetime. Some individuals were more prone to daimon influence than others, but they mostly joined Daimon Worship when it was recreated. The official doctrine of the cult was always that daimons were to be exploited to our own ends. I can't speak for everyone, but I suspect most of the church's leaders, if not all, did not trust the daimons and knew they were walking a fine line, one which many crossed and that  caused them their lives. Unlike some others, the Blood Cult did *not* want the continent to fall to any of the factions, and preffered to make them fight each other whenever possible. The Cult had grand ambitions, and the daimons taking everything over would have ruined that. Cultists were hardly the greater evil around.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

I found it strange that so many people who followed the daimons were all bloodthirsty and violent...and subsequently met violent ends. Ironic really. Daimons were pretty brutal but for some reason my experiences with them have been rather tame. 

[Chenier]

I found it strange that so many people who followed the daimons were all bloodthirsty and violent...and subsequently met violent ends. Ironic really. Daimons were pretty brutal but for some reason my experiences with them have been rather tame. 

There were many daimons with different personalities. Cultist lore taught that while the undead lacked the free will to be good or evil, and that the monsters lacked the intellect to act on it, daimons had both and were therefore no more good or evil as a species than humans were. A lot of the daimons were later proven to be much more docile than many/most humans.

Over the span of the last two invasions, there were many GMs involved in leading the(some) daimons. They played the daimons with different styles, personalities. It also seemed that the most brutal always had the greatest tendency to go inactive, so they became much less noticeable than the others.

[Telrunya]

Yeah, until Valachi decided to badmouth Sherilynn. Then the Blood Cult pretty much got slaughtered. Valachi Stefanovic obviously was executed. Vistuvis Adriddae was fed to minor daemons, Malfurion Stormrage, am I missing anyone?

So that's what happened there! I always wondered, since my Infiltrator in the Daimon Faction got executed. I figured I got lucky and avoided Death by Daimons by getting executed by Heen(?).

[songqu88@gmail.com]

I just found it a bit boring I suppose that automatically most players who accidentally found themselves in the Netherworld or otherwise helped out the daimons were a bunch of wannabe evil, violent, greedy, sadistic, or some combination of the above, freaks. To give an example, Ahriman Himoura (Who apparently claimed to be the not-dead Rathan Himoura, who was apparently clearly executed in D'Hara by that time lol) killed his wife or whatever Sorsha McDowell in front of Sherilynn and Cimmerian. Cimmerian was more or less like  while Sherilynn was like 

And then Ahriman went to Melhed and made the mistake of preaching Daimon Worship there which led to him getting captured and executed. For joy! I wonder if we'll see some Himoura in the future claiming to be not-dead Ahriman who is not-dead Rathan. 

But more to the point, the example is supposed to show something which has bugged me for a while. Over in Dwilight when Bowie Ironsides starting crowing his head off about being a Dark Demon Immortal Count Frankenstein Vampire Chocolate Retriever, I got to thinking. What's with people seemingly so eager to associate daimon to daemon (which also exists in BM in the names of unique items. Also, the special execution message said someone was fed to minor daemons, not daimons). I assume daemon is somewhat like an amalgamation of different interpretations of "demons" in the various traditions, Judeo-Christian demons, East-Asian demons (I guess pop culture would make some of us more familiar with the Japanese youkai), Middle Eastern demons, etc. But what about daimons? I asked Cimmerian's player once about it, and he/she basically said that daimons weren't exactly demonic. But I guess "demonic" is a bit vague as well.

[Chenier]

I just found it a bit boring I suppose that automatically most players who accidentally found themselves in the Netherworld or otherwise helped out the daimons were a bunch of wannabe evil, violent, greedy, sadistic, or some combination of the above, freaks. To give an example, Ahriman Himoura (Who apparently claimed to be the not-dead Rathan Himoura, who was apparently clearly executed in D'Hara by that time lol) killed his wife or whatever Sorsha McDowell in front of Sherilynn and Cimmerian. Cimmerian was more or less like  while Sherilynn was like 

And then Ahriman went to Melhed and made the mistake of preaching Daimon Worship there which led to him getting captured and executed. For joy! I wonder if we'll see some Himoura in the future claiming to be not-dead Ahriman who is not-dead Rathan. 

Give them some credit, though. They basically had their characters paused for months (a year?) without really being able to do anything with them, due to how netherworld mechanics worked. I started the colony, but that was something I personally was not ready to do.

And don't confuse the daimon worshippers with the blood cultists, now.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

The Blood Cultists were not much different from the Daimon Worshippers, from what I have seen. Since there were only five human Daimon Worshippers anyway (six maybe?), Ahriman Himoura, Alexey Valentine, Kayne II Himoura, Letifer Animus, Ramuh Artemesia, and Renfield Immortals (Maybe?), there is probably less comparison to be drawn. I don't know how Letifer was, but I know that Alexey used to be Blood Cult before he narrowly escaped execution by the daimons and became a Daimon Worshipper. Renfield you can tell by the RP posted on the Delsantos wiki about how he was all bloodthirsty or something of that sort. The Himouras, well need I say anything about them? I have a feeling that Ramuh was the only human Daimon Worshipper who wasn't about gratuitous violence or greed or sadism, or some combination of the aforementioned.

Now Kayne II was originally part of the Blood Cult, and he was pretty bloody. I'm aware that what he does is probably not representative of the Blood Cult as a whole, but that still begs the question of what was with those really obnoxious humans being sadistic and violent just because they were part of the Netherworld. I thought even Epic of Gilgamesh respected the daimons for their strict ways and laws.

And finally, the Blood Cult did get chided by Marta of the Light for being "evil". 

[Chenier]

The Blood Cultists were not much different from the Daimon Worshippers, from what I have seen. Since there were only five human Daimon Worshippers anyway (six maybe?), Ahriman Himoura, Alexey Valentine, Kayne II Himoura, Letifer Animus, Ramuh Artemesia, and Renfield Immortals (Maybe?), there is probably less comparison to be drawn. I don't know how Letifer was, but I know that Alexey used to be Blood Cult before he narrowly escaped execution by the daimons and became a Daimon Worshipper. Renfield you can tell by the RP posted on the Delsantos wiki about how he was all bloodthirsty or something of that sort. The Himouras, well need I say anything about them? I have a feeling that Ramuh was the only human Daimon Worshipper who wasn't about gratuitous violence or greed or sadism, or some combination of the aforementioned.

Now Kayne II was originally part of the Blood Cult, and he was pretty bloody. I'm aware that what he does is probably not representative of the Blood Cult as a whole, but that still begs the question of what was with those really obnoxious humans being sadistic and violent just because they were part of the Netherworld. I thought even Epic of Gilgamesh respected the daimons for their strict ways and laws.

And finally, the Blood Cult did get chided by Marta of the Light for being "evil". 

These people joined the Cult only to get closer to the daimons. They never went up the ranks of the faith, and ditched it at first opportunity. They were not cultists at heart.

And I don't recall Marta ever saying straight up that we were evil. She did imply it by telling us we could still repent, but given how she had deemed Hemaism pure nobody in our parts really cared for what she thought.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

These people joined the Cult only to get closer to the daimons. They never went up the ranks of the faith, and ditched it at first opportunity. They were not cultists at heart.

And I don't recall Marta ever saying straight up that we were evil. She did imply it by telling us we could still repent, but given how she had deemed Hemaism pure nobody in our parts really cared for what she thought.

Well Sint and Hemaism aren't exactly known for sticking to their guns. They probably thought the Light was a better shot at winning than the daimons, much like the Meridian Republic thought the monsters would lead them to victory or something. Who knows, who cares. MR is gone and so is the Light. Now we're just left with rogue blighted regions and for some odd reason Netherworld is still around.

[Chenier]

Well Sint and Hemaism aren't exactly known for sticking to their guns. They probably thought the Light was a better shot at winning than the daimons, much like the Meridian Republic thought the monsters would lead them to victory or something. Who knows, who cares. MR is gone and so is the Light. Now we're just left with rogue blighted regions and for some odd reason Netherworld is still around.

Sint is Sint, we all know that by now. I mean Marta's words lost all credibility on a bunch of us when she declared that Hemaism, Daishi, and Qyrvaggism were pure. Hemaism particularly made us think "well if this is what they deem pure, they certainly aren't up to any good", while joining nobody but Enweil's enemies also cost them brownie points. From our point of view, the Light neither joined the most needy, the most deserving, or the most pious. Marta was also arrogant and snobby as hell.

OOC, I always suspected they were there to help. But everything IC hinted otherwise.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

There was something about how humans would have to learn how to combine the powers of the Light to prevent the NPCs from getting reinforcements. Anyone ever figure out how to do that? I suppose since Creasur's temple lost its enchantment the point became moot.