Toupellon: The next FEI superpower?

[Carna]

Why bitter over him? Taylin was on the OW side, but come to think of it, with her scheming to take down OW according to yourself, why'd there be bitterness over Hamilton? 'Cause he failed, in the end?

[Indirik]

Taylin was working with Hamilton and the League. It's a long and convoluted story.

See, Taylin liked Hamilton. He was one of the few people in OW that was nice to her when she first arrived. There were some bitter conflicts between Taylin and various leaders of OW back then that left her angry about several things. That was back when the whole blood traitor thing started, with various OW people saying that character counts for more than blood, and that if a commoner works real hard and serves the realm that they can become a noble, too. Or that commoners who are faithful to the realm are worth more than nobles. Etc. etc. That was the basis that Arcaea and GA used to help the League in their war against OW.

The League was incompetent. They could never progress far enough in their war for Taylin to defect to the League with her region of Sanzzos. Then Hamilton stopped answering her letters, and then he disappeared altogether. (He emigrated to EC without ever sending her another letter.) Taylin was forced to run for rulership of OW simply to survive. When she won, she managed to convince Arcaea that the blood traitors had all left and gone to the League, getting Arcaea out of the war. (They were otherwise occupied, and so were more than happy to let OW and the League fight it out.)

Long story made short: Taylin now hates Hamilton for abandoning her, forcing her to stay in OW with people she hated, in a realm she doesn't like. If she hadn't had the duchy of Akanos, she probably would have left. But the duchy, and the Royal status she had in the realm, was quite the perk that she didn't want to give up.

[Carna]

That explains a lot. I even know most of the people you refer to about the bitter conflicts Was fun times, imo, but I had things good there from the start - which really didn't earn my characters any brownie points with Taylin. Heartbreaking.

Anywho, never knew Taylin was going to defect to the League. When I first joined OW, she was one of the handful who'd actually follow orders and the likes. Place was in pieces at that stage.

[Indirik]

There were only a very few who knew that Taylin wanted to defect to AL. She didn't exactly publicize her intentions.

As for orders: the best spies and saboteurs always follow orders, up until the time that your betrayal can strike the crucial blow that turns the tide. You really only get that one chance to hit it big. Don't waste it on something small. Until then, do what you're told. Chances are that within the acceptable limits, you can still do small things to cause problems. Like delaying just a little so you arrive a turn late for a refit and throw off the schedule, setting your men on 25% retreat instead of 80%, doing only 4 hours of PW instead of "all your hours", hiring crappy troops instead of good troops, not carrying banners, not suggesting better strategies even though you know the one giving orders is making a huge mistake, etc.

[BardicNerd]

And of course if the spy does actual helpful stuff and gets noticed for that, they might be in a better position to cause more damage later.  I sent a spy to a realm I didn't like and he got himself made a lord and almost judge.  Unfortunately, he stopped playing or paused or emigrated, but was quite fun.

But yeah.  The best spies are those that seem to be one of the best people in the realm they're spying on.  Being hated in the realm they're spying for doesn't hurt, either.

[Carna]

The one problem with being hated is that the motivation has to come from somewhere, otherwise you've got yourself either one less noble, or a double-agent. Me? Never trusted people who'd spy. Rarely get spies loyal enough to be trustworthy, imo.

[Bedwyr]

Ahem.  For those who want a manual on how to be a double agent, go talk to Wilson Hendrix.  That man is amazing.  For those who haven't already seen this, he was the Ruler of Sartania at one point, and a devoted Sartanian.  When the realm fell, he joined Arcachon, and began working on a long-range plan to destroy Arcachon.  He more or less started the last Arcaea/Arcachon war by doing his best to see that Arcachon couldn't hold some of the mainland territories, and has engaged in various other bits of low-level sabotage, not least of which is working with Jenred for several IG years now.

He kept the rebellions going in Arcachon far longer than they might have otherwise, got himself into the Ruler slot, thus becoming the only person to ever Rule both Sartania and Arcachon, and did so while being a devout Sartanian (though not a "formal" member of the Church of Sartan for the obvious reasons).  He has most recently defected to Arcaea with the region of Mnalor after doing his best to empty Enlod's recruitment centers and see Arcachon's troops whittled down, which now means Arcaea has a border with Enlod.

All of which is, of course, discounting the invaluable information he has passed on to Ohnar West and Arcaea over the years.

And that is how you play a double agent.  I lift my hat to him.  Deep, real reasons for it, amazingly well executed, and picked his moment for the great reveal quite nicely.  Success is not guaranteed, of course, but Arcachon is pretty nearly crippled at this point, and it's in large part thanks to him.

[Telrunya]

I'm thoroughly impressed by it. Though my character has attributed it all to Jenred and has now a great respect for him, poor Wilson

[Heq]

Just one correction, the war was really started by Farnese and Rodiriz making some serious miscalculations and Ryeena not catching onto the fact that they were doing so.

Otherwise, yes, I too tip my hat to Wilson's spy skills and am even more impressed that even after all that he still has "friends" in the Adgharian leadership.  By that I mean the BM term for friend which is "Still trust that guy more then those other guys"

[Bedwyr]

Just one correction, the war was really started by Farnese and Rodiriz making some serious miscalculations and Ryeena not catching onto the fact that they were doing so.

Which war are you referring to?  The only one that I meant Wilson started was the one under Octavio that broke out over Niel.  He kept the civil wars going, but didn't start them, and I'm not aware of anything in particular that he did to start the current war with Arcaea.

I'm thoroughly impressed by it. Though my character has attributed it all to Jenred and has now a great respect for him, poor Wilson

Jenred's encouraging Wilson to write a book about it.  And you wouldn't believe how many things that have been attributed to Jenred are more like this.  Jenred is without a doubt the luckiest character I have ever played in any game.  He essentially became a devout member of the MAE because he was so incredibly lucky that the only explanation he could come up with is that he was favoured by a deity of some kind, and that belief has continued to be reinforced over the years.

His main talent, in point of fact, is seizing on unexpected scenarios without getting bogged down in old plans.  Most of his infamous spy network was composed of people who spontaneously contacted him with information, every war (and I mean every war, I can't think of a single exception) he's fought has been won by the other side screwing up in some spectacular fashion allowing him to take advantage of it, and every time some situation arises it turns out that one of his old friends just happens to have some way to help.

Some days I seriously wonder if some minor deity of RPG's really is looking out for him.

[Valast]

*BOW*

just kidding about the bow... it really is all luck and playing true to a characters um...character.

I will write a wiki about it in the near future I hope.

Bedwyr how long ago was it that Selene Octavius had Wilson contact you?

Wilson will always be branded a traitor now tho...and that is sad because I can think of very few others who have taken on such a long term fight.

was lots of fun tho! and I guess that IS the point.

[De-Legro]

*BOW*

just kidding about the bow... it really is all luck and playing true to a characters um...character.

I will write a wiki about it in the near future I hope.

Bedwyr how long ago was it that Selene Octavius had Wilson contact you?

Wilson will always be branded a traitor now tho...and that is sad because I can think of very few others who have taken on such a long term fight.

was lots of fun tho! and I guess that IS the point.

I don't know, to many Arcaeans and Sartan's he is a hero. Not sure if he is all that fussed about the opinion of nobles outside of his religion at any rate.

[Heq]

Yeah, I was thinking about the current wars.  The only think that confuses me is why he didn't make himself King when Ryeena stepped down because he had the support, but I suppose that could have gone hell-for-leather wrong really easily.

[Bedwyr]

Bedwyr how long ago was it that Selene Octavius had Wilson contact you?

Good question, I'll poke George about it and see if he remembers.  My best guess is somewhere near the middle of the last war, but the problem was for a long while Selene was just passing "anonymous tips" to Jenred from Wilson.  Then Wilson contacted him, and I sort of mentally edited things to "this was Wilson's info" because I still couldn't believe that kind of long-con.

[Valast]

Wilson never wanted to be ruler.  All he wanted was to recreate his father guild and follow in his fathers foot steps.

While studying the views of honor his father had, and the ~V~ guild, he realized that honor was not just flowery words and being good.  After all, did not all armies cut down peasants when rape and plunder was resisted?  Did not every war have multiple sides who believed they were in the right while the other was wrong?

So when  Sartania (even after years I cant spell that name right I think) was not given mercy at the end of the war with Arcachon... Wilson followed in the honor of his father Valius and remained with the people of his lands...aiding them to freedom from Arcachon (aka helping to send regions rogue) When the wars began against Arcachon he fought just as hard as for anyone, as his honor dictates.

Wilson gained the trust of Pontifex Octavio... joining his inner circle and secret society...  Thus he was able to aid rebellions (without actually taking part) until one finally toppled him.  It took a long time for the realm to get back to a point where the same sort of thing could take place again...and there was a lot of actions in between... but no lies.  Always bitter or mixed truths but no lies.

Some will always say what Wilson did was dishonorable.  Yet those same people support infiltrators, rebellions, broken treaties, Looting, rape, starving of innocents, peasant slaughter....

Which in certain situations, such as war, all of those things have honor.  ~V~ teaches that there is a path to honor... it winds and weaves... it passes through shadows and into the bright light of day... It teaches that to fight a peasant militia is honorable because to not do so would bring dishonor to them...and they are now warriors because of the spirit within them rising them up...

That is a brief window into his heart... *shrug* thought I would share because some times playing a character so long ends up with me thinking everyone knows him when really there are many who never met him.

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Hall_of_Blood_and_Battle