Sanguis Astroism

[Zakilevo]

Well everything is dying so no one should be surprised. We are losing about 20 players(give or take 5) per month so it is not really anything to be surprised about when you see SA dying.

[pcw27]

Given that there are only two remaining Theocracies, and Astrum, I am told, is about to be crushed (with Morek sure to follow, neh?); Mathurin's absence seems permanent (Rabisu has long believed, but never told anyone, that he is dead); and even though in terms of number and sizes of temples, shrines, and common followers the Church is greater than ever, one must nevertheless look about and ask: is Sanguis Astroism dying?

Morek isn't in danger at all. They're all the way across the sea even if Niselur and Asylon wanted to get at them the best they could manage is sending a few harassing raids when they're feeling bored.

Astrum is working on a peace agreement, but even if that fails we probably wont be destroyed outright because there are quite a few places we can turtle up and Morek and Corsanctum can continue backing us.

The end of the Northern Astroist Federation may end up leading to a very exciting time for Sanguis Astroism. I look forward to many rebellions and civil wars (duchy secessions) started by religeous fanatics to reestablish theocracies or even create new ones.

[Indirik]

one must nevertheless look about and ask: is Sanguis Astroism dying?

SA is transitioning into the same bland, boring, pointless religion as every other religion in the game. It is becoming something that people join just to be in it, but ignore. Or at best pay lip service to it. In that sense, yes it is dying. It will linger on for quite some time as a shadow of what it used to be. But no one outside it really cares about it anymore.

[Glaumring the Fox]

SA is transitioning into the same bland, boring, pointless religion as every other religion in the game. It is becoming something that people join just to be in it, but ignore. Or at best pay lip service to it. In that sense, yes it is dying. It will linger on for quite some time as a shadow of what it used to be. But no one outside it really cares about it anymore.

You know you are starting to sound like me now right? I'm glad that we can finally agree on something. I

[Indirik]

You know you are starting to sound like me now right? I'm glad that we can finally agree on something. I

Craaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap!

This has really been the point of the war that Niselur started: To turn the church into a powerless/pointless entity. Just look at the peace terms that Niselur is demanding, and you can see it all spelled out.

[D`Este]

Oh really? You blame Niselur?

The church and astrum have taken zero incentive during the war to solve the situation. You could have gotten far and far better terms regarding land, you could already have had Niselur back in the church. But that you failed at doing so, that truly demonstrates the lack of commitment in the church and the attitude in this game. Only black and freaking white, no grey, no middle way.

[Daycryn]

Why is it the Church, of all entities, that must be "gray" and have a "middle way," while the same is apparently not expected of Niselur? I could just as easily say, "You could have not left the Church at all" and I'd be more correct because that is the direct cause of all the war to follow. I mean you talk about "lack of commitment in the Church," it doesn't get any more noncommitted than "hey let's follow a heretic as he leaves the church and declares war on its theocracies."

SA has been far, far too compromising, too gray, too lenient. No backbone.

I think it's time for that to change.

[vonGenf]

Oh really? You blame Niselur?

"Blame"?

Turn it around, it seems to me like he's saying you've won.

[Indirik]

Oh really? You blame Niselur?

Well of course. But not completely. Niselur did, after all, declare a war with the *exact* intent to reduce the power of the church and the theocracies. Niselur's explicitly stated intent, at the beginning of the war, was to throw off the chains of the church, and establish their power as an entity independent of the church. The treaty that Niselur has proposed is something that Leopold probably dreamed of when he started the war. He wouldn't have stopped there, though. He would have subjugated Astrum, and then kept on with the war against the church. Fulco isn't as obviously ambitious as Leopold was. Or at least not as transparent. The fact that Fulco, the king who rules at the end of the war, wasn't the one that clicked the "Declare war!" link doesn't change the intent behind how the war started. It just changes how it ends. Maybe.

Niselur isn't completely to blame in this. I am quite certain that there was a lot of collusion with the leaders of Asylon and the Farronites in this. They both wanted Astrum taken down for their own reasons. And they certainly succeeded, that's for sure.

The church also has some blame in the situation leading up to the war, and its outcome. I imagine we could really come up with some good ways that the church failed and contributed to the situation.

However... Let's not forget that Leopold specifically and intentionally engineered this war as a war against SA. He did everything he could, very cleverly, and very deliberately, to bring about the situation that has now evolved. He just lacked the persistence to see it through.

The church and astrum have taken zero incentive during the war to solve the situation.

Well that's certainly not true. The church bent over backward to stop the war before it started. The church went to extreme lengths to placate Leopold. Leopold didn't want that, though. He specifically wanted a war.

I will definitely agree that Astrum wasn't very communicative, and cooperative in bringing about the end of the war. I think a lot of the higher-ups in Astrum were wearing blinders. There was not much in the way of discussion about how bad things really were. I'm guilty of that, too, I know. I really haven't been very involved in Brance lately, and let a lot of things slide.

[Lorgan]

Ahhh... the blame game.

As an outsider, it seems pretty obvious to me that the Church has aligned itself with her theocracies since... forever. It's only logical that when those theocracies (or at least Astrum) finally started losing in stead of conquering everything in their path, the Church's authority would diminish accordingly. No big surprise, no poor gameplay, just exactly what would have happened in the real world where, believe it or not, piety has never been an inherent trait of the upper classes. Except in the real world the church authority would probably find a way to compromise... just sayin'.

[Daimall]

Leopold did have some far reaching ambitions I have to admit, in secret talks with my character, he mentioned that he wanted to resurrect the Dalian Kingdom and I assume at that time the old Duke of Valkyria was one of the last members or elites of that Kingdom. Of course with Leopold gone, it seems that person is gone as well so so much for that plan. Too bad he had to go inactive for everything to turn around in Niselur, after all, he had been completely silent and demoralized in the closing days of his reign.

You have to admit though that not just Leopold wanted war, a ton of other people whether OOC/IC wanted the war to happen. After all, if he accepted the offer from the church, it would of secured another "peace within our time" and likely that no wars would of rocked the northern Dwilight for some time to come, thus leading to more stagnation.

[Glaumring the Fox]

The wars have been good for Dwilight and ultimately will lead to soul searching for SA. I know many will look and or act/say this is the end etc but often its times like these where a realm or characters can rise like a pheonix and make this a part of their character RP and history. I think this is an awesome time for Astrum and its players, now they have a goal, they have a drive, they have history and culture and they can be like the underdog and reorder things and create a new narrative one where their great and ancient civilization fell to foreign barbarians in the west. Its almost a Roman narrative of history. If you are playing BM souly to win then you are not paying enough attentiom to who your character is. Glaumring isnt great because of how awesome he is but by how frail and with foible his history has been. His entire history is clawing upward and failing and getting back up and fighting. This is Astrum now bloodied but unbowed. I know many of you will cry into pillows and quit or not log on as much because victory and gold and glory were what defined you, that when it comes down to it you were just here for yourself. For the ones who take this time in history and use it to enrich their characters and RP this is the best time to be active because drama and travesty, tragedy are the greatest stories ever written. And I know that many of you still have fight in you and its been a pleasure to take on Astrum and after years of failure finally actually winning. If you think it has only been tough for Astrum remember that Asylon was for much of history a pathetic backwater.

[Zakilevo]

Leopold did have some far reaching ambitions I have to admit, in secret talks with my character, he mentioned that he wanted to resurrect the Dalian Kingdom and I assume at that time the old Duke of Valkyria was one of the last members or elites of that Kingdom. Of course with Leopold gone, it seems that person is gone as well so so much for that plan. Too bad he had to go inactive for everything to turn around in Niselur, after all, he had been completely silent and demoralized in the closing days of his reign.

You have to admit though that not just Leopold wanted war, a ton of other people whether OOC/IC wanted the war to happen. After all, if he accepted the offer from the church, it would of secured another "peace within our time" and likely that no wars would of rocked the northern Dwilight for some time to come, thus leading to more stagnation.

He was really upset about people not joining Niselur when the war started. Don't know about him but I busied myself getting people left and right. Though most of those people have either moved to other realms and quit the game after I paused The war was really fun though. Doubt I will ever be able to devote myself to another war. I can only play as silent zombie characters these days 

[Daimall]

From what I heard he was trying to get people to join to actively, but had little success apparently from his outlets. The ironic thing was that once Fulco came to power we suddenly started having an influx of nobles, whether from defeated realms or new players.

[BarticaBoat]

Why is it the Church, of all entities, that must be "gray" and have a "middle way," while the same is apparently not expected of Niselur? I could just as easily say, "You could have not left the Church at all" and I'd be more correct because that is the direct cause of all the war to follow. I mean you talk about "lack of commitment in the Church," it doesn't get any more noncommitted than "hey let's follow a heretic as he leaves the church and declares war on its theocracies."

SA has been far, far too compromising, too gray, too lenient. No backbone.

I think it's time for that to change.

this. all the way. like in astrum when i suggested we burn asylon to the ground to prove a point i was met with "we've completed our objectives in this war". then when rumors of niselur vassalizing libero surfaced i suggested we do so first and was met with silence.