Dwilight losing its saltiness?

[Vellos]

The whole torture thing was to attempt to get the characters to think about having to torture one of their own for no reason but to appease someone else. Moral conflict and all that. Instead, you did nothing until the day before the deadline when you then decided to complain and talk about meta gaming. If you'd tried interaction at the start, you might have actually got somewhere. Their does need to be some effort on the part of the players you know.

Oh, and that's total crap. Travel takes forever in Dwilight, even for a fairly active priest. We had probably a half dozen items located within 4-5 days, and some of the people are STILL on their way delivering them, or gave up mid-route because travel takes so darn long. Terrence got to Haktoo, what, 25 days after I was notified of his identity? Meaning that there was only realistically 1-5 days left of the actual incident in a torture report? The time limits were actually a neat twist; but ultimately kind of unrealistic with how long travel takes.

[Zuma GM]

Oh, and that's total crap. Travel takes forever in Dwilight, even for a fairly active priest. We had probably a half dozen items located within 4-5 days, and some of the people are STILL on their way delivering them, or gave up mid-route because travel takes so darn long. Terrence got to Haktoo, what, 25 days after I was notified of his identity? Meaning that there was only realistically 1-5 days left of the actual incident in a torture report? The time limits were actually a neat twist; but ultimately kind of unrealistic with how long travel takes.

You were the one that put the limitation on it that you could only torture Terrence. There were plenty of people that could have been tortured to provide that information so there was nothing unrealistic about the time limits put in place. As for items, were any updates provided or requests for more time? As has been demonstrated by others, there are other ways to get things done which meant that not all the items were required and did also include getting extensions on time limits that had been given.

[Vellos]

You were the one that put the limitation on it that you could only torture Terrence. There were plenty of people that could have been tortured to provide that information so there was nothing unrealistic about the time limits put in place. As for items, were any updates provided or requests for more time? As has been demonstrated by others, there are other ways to get things done which meant that not all the items were required and did also include getting extensions on time limits that had been given.

The time limits weren't a big grief; if you read my comment you'll note that I had a generally positive outlook on them. They contributed a sense of urgency to it that gave some interesting interactions, especially with some Lurians.

But, yes, I believe you did get requests for extensions. No, not believe: I know beyond a shadow of a doubt. I sent you several requests. You granted at least one of them, but I honestly don't remember the rest. Updates.... I think I may have sent one. And I know the Barcans asked for extensions; I saw the messages.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Since Hireshmont was already there, he could have offered his own body to prove that the letter was a forgery...lol.

And in terms of those items, if Julius wasn't such a crybaby about how he didn't have enough time, things would have gone a lot better. I can say this because he actually sent some letters to me complaining about how impossible it was. And that sniveling was apparently not well received.

You know, in about 99% of all cases I have seen so far (And believe me, I've seen some stupid !@#$ people have done that led the Zuma roflpwning their realms) it was the human character(s) being too dumb to live that led to !@#$ hitting the fan for them.

The problem isn't so much that you guys aren't interacting, but more like...You're interacting in a way that almost seems to me like you WANT to get roflpwned. Because, you know, I'm as much an outsider to the daimon's plans as any other human, so from my perspective, I don't have any personal influences. And so as a neutral third party, I sometimes lol at the things some people do. Like seriously, Athena turned Arachne into a spider because she beat her at weaving. If you think of it a little like that, it might help..maybe.

[Vellos]

Since Hireshmont was already there, he could have offered his own body to prove that the letter was a forgery...lol.

I actually did consider doing exactly that, but then a readthrough of my messages indicated that doing so would be unwise for many other reasons.

The problem isn't so much that you guys aren't interacting, but more like...You're interacting in a way that almost seems to me like you WANT to get roflpwned. Because, you know, I'm as much an outsider to the daimon's plans as any other human, so from my perspective, I don't have any personal influences. And so as a neutral third party, I sometimes lol at the things some people do. Like seriously, Athena turned Arachne into a spider because she beat her at weaving. If you think of it a little like that, it might help..maybe.

This has also largely been my impression; even of many of my own interactions, in hindsight. Problem is that it's harder than you might think to figure out what the right choice is; and even harder to accept that there IS a right choice in a game where, on almost every other continent, there isn't a set plot that has a "right choice;" and even harder to then find a way to make the right choice fit your character's RP.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

Ok, at this point, what I'm getting from our writing is "Blah blah blah words stuff you're wrong I'm right blah blah..."

Right? Wrong? As long as you don't cheat, it's all fair. Keep it in-character? We're not professional roleplayers here, no one is policing you for how realistic you play your character. And if it means you have to bitch whenever you feel as though something isn't up to your standards, then I think I'm not alone in preferring that you not be so stringent in your judgments.

And this is getting weird because your bitching is spanning several threads now.

Can't you figure out a better way to do this? The way you handle it is more fitting for someone like me when I don't give a !@#$ what anyone else thinks (Probably 87.5% of the time). Right now you're proving you're as bad as Artemesia. lololol

[Indirik]

And Garret as much as said, both IC and OOC (though he's so "mysterious" he'll probably weasel out of it) that the Zuma are there to maintain disorder.

FWIW - I wouldn't trust anything Garret says about the purpose of the Zuma, especially in an OOC context. Garret is *not* the Zuma. He's just another normal player like you and me. The only stuff he knows is the stuff that he has inferred from his interactions with the Zuma GM.

I'm not saying that Artemesia is intentionally lying or misleading. It's just that anything that he tells you about the Zuma is his opinion, and nothing more.

[De-Legro]

That didn't work for the Third Invasion, it didn't work for the Fourth Invasion, and I don't particularly see it working here.  And by "working" I mean "making things more fun for more players than it makes less fun" because this is a game, and that's kinda the point.

Yes, as any experienced game master or dungeon master can attest, it is damn hard to lead players around and drop enough hints for them to work stuff out, without making it too easy and just handing everything over. Even in the current invasion I'm sure players are missing stuff that Tom has thought was obvious, that is just the nature of the beast.

The fact remains that there ARE players that are working out how to deal with the Zuma, and how to make headway with them. Hell for all the complaints about the first King of Asylon, the guy DID manage to get the Zuma to relinquish their claims on several regions and come to an arrangement that meant Ayslon could be founded without fearing instant retaliation by the Zuma. He achieved all that within 2 weeks of learning the Zuma even existed. Perhaps it was dumb luck, or perhaps since he was just a simple knight at the time, and a reasonably new player he didn't go into the negotiations with all the baggage some players are dragging around and clouding their decisions.

[songqu88@gmail.com]

I've always thought Invasions were better off being single player games like Amnesia. Dwilight is rather different since the Zuma could really be considered another realm like any other. As for stuff about how powerful they are and all, well, would you have the balls to go invade Astrum? They're a human realm, so they have no "special advantages" over you.

[Glaumring the Fox]

yeah but Astrum was built by the hard work of its players... What have the Zuma done? They have 1 human and a bunch of Gm's controlling everything behind a curtain. At least with Astrum I know that if I start starving regions and picking off nobles the king of Astrum isn't just going to code in 5000000cs of humans to turn me back from my folly.

[De-Legro]

yeah but Astrum was built by the hard work of its players... What have the Zuma done? They have 1 human and a bunch of Gm's controlling everything behind a curtain. At least with Astrum I know that if I start starving regions and picking off nobles the king of Astrum isn't just going to code in 5000000cs of humans to turn me back from my folly.

That is COMPLETE bull!@#$. First the Zuma GM has no access to the code. Second Tom does NOT allow in human faction to play without rules. Just like the invasions they have clearly defined game mechanics that affect what they can and can't do. Can you even point to evidence to support this view? This is exactly the kind of misinformed lies that directly affect the in game experience. Player that  obviously have very little understanding, but have played on the island for a while sprout this crap to new players, who just believe it and suddenly is the common perception.

The inverse of this, if this was even remotely true, you would have more then likely just ensured the destruction of Asylon in game. It is this kind of unfounded !@#$ that mean Toms doesn't really even play his own game, since people were willing to accuse him of cheating whenever he was successful. How sad is that, a game he has spent more then 10 years of his life working on, and because of the players he is a spectator.

[Glaumring the Fox]

How do they support their massive armies then? all of their land is crap.

I used to enjoy the Zuman aspect of Dwilight until recently. Now I am not so sure of their purpose. I fear all the time they are just going to wipe out our kingdom after months of hard work. They don't have to do anything. At least I know Astrum worked like a dog to get where it is and I can see the land around it that allows them to hold a massive army. I don't see it with the Zuma, I see the Zuma have to trade for food and still maintain huge armies, even though I know my own kingdom who has missed food shipments to them at times. I wonder who is and how are they Zuma supporting huge armies? Are the Zumans only eating half of freds fried chicken?

[Indirik]

Not conforming to the rules *you* have to follow does not mean they don't have a set of rules that govern their behavior. They are not a human, and don't have to follow the same rules you do. But they *do* have rules that govern their behavior.

[De-Legro]

How do they support their massive armies then? all of their land is crap.

I used to enjoy the Zuman aspect of Dwilight until recently. Now I am not so sure of their purpose. I fear all the time they are just going to wipe out our kingdom after months of hard work. They don't have to do anything. At least I know Astrum worked like a dog to get where it is and I can see the land around it that allows them to hold a massive army. I don't see it with the Zuma, I see the Zuma have to trade for food and still maintain huge armies, even though I know my own kingdom who has missed food shipments to them at times. I wonder who is and how are they Zuma supporting huge armies? Are the Zumans only eating half of freds fried chicken?

What need have NPC's ever had with managing good land? Do you ask what great regions the Diamons on BT need for their armies? Like I said, there are restrictions, but they are DIFFERENT from human realms. Here is a hint, its not probably not food.

[Glaumring the Fox]

It's funny how some of the people here seem to know...