Author Topic: Calm before the storm on FEI  (Read 71456 times)

Lefanis

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #165: May 07, 2012, 07:11:04 AM »
RegionMaintenanceMaster may have just caused a few sparks toward war, unfortunately. Or fortunately, given your perception. But yeah, rolling out partial updates to stable without finishing it has wreaked havoc on an island that had been experiencing near-universal drought.

I recall reading on the forum somewhere that the big update is coming this week.
What is Freedom? - ye can tell; That which slavery is, too well; For its very name has grown; To an echo of your own

T'is to work and have such pay; As just keeps life from day to day; In your limbs, as in a cell; For the tyrants' use to dwell

Velax

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #166: May 07, 2012, 07:21:23 AM »
RegionMaintenanceMaster may have just caused a few sparks toward war, unfortunately. Or fortunately, given your perception. But yeah, rolling out partial updates to stable without finishing it has wreaked havoc on an island that had been experiencing near-universal drought. The statistics page on food production/supply is miserable right now.

What partial updates did we get that affected food?

Lefanis

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #167: May 07, 2012, 07:24:59 AM »
I don't think you're actually aware of the meaning of the word deceitful. "Marked by deliberate deceptiveness especially by pretending one set of feelings and acting under the influence of another." At what point did Velax pretend he wanted peace while actually working to end the treaty?

What you do not see, is whatever Velax's personal opinion or stand may be, when he is wearing his head of state hat, he assumes the responsibilities, treaties, promises and liabilities of his predecessors. It's the very basis of diplomacy. So while Velax could tear up the peace as head of state, that would mean reneging on the word given by the erstwhile head of state, who acted representing Arcaea.
What is Freedom? - ye can tell; That which slavery is, too well; For its very name has grown; To an echo of your own

T'is to work and have such pay; As just keeps life from day to day; In your limbs, as in a cell; For the tyrants' use to dwell

Velax

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #168: May 07, 2012, 07:31:55 AM »
And again, you fail to realise the actual meaning of the word. If Velax tears up a peace, call him a treaty-breaker if you want to. Ingall certainly does. But unless Velax deliberately misled you, or anyone else, into thinking he was going to uphold the peace while never planning to do so, it's not deceitful. Not sure if I can state it any clearer.

Draco Tanos

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #169: May 07, 2012, 07:41:20 AM »
It shows the realm as deceitful and untrustworthy by those who it has made promises to and then reneged.  It does not matter who the head of state is, the actions one one carry over to the next.  That is simply how politics works.  You don't get a blank slate when a new king/president/prince/Doge/despot/whatever is named.

Westmoor on EC, for example, is still making up for the actions of Flaylen who was king two monarchs ago.  He reneged on treaties and alliances, declaring war where he simply wanted to declare war.  And you know what?  Even though I am the one still trying to clean up the mess, I (at least OOC) think it's right that I have to. 

And why?  Because it indicates the realm has no idea WTF it wants and it makes people question its word.  At least with Maedros and then myself, our policies have been relatively steady.

So no, Velax is not deceitful, but Arcaea seems to be.

Velax

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #170: May 07, 2012, 07:47:31 AM »
I can see how other realms might think less of Arcaea because of that. They're wrong, but I can see the reasoning behind it. But it was the only way things could be. There were massive protests when Jenred made peace, and while he probably wouldn't have been protested out of rulership, there were going to be some serious questions to answer. But once Jenred disappeared...what other outcome was there going to be but the ending of the peace? Everyone in Arcaea wanted to finish what they started in Arcachon, so of course they voted in someone who was going to do that. I don't think people understand the depth of hatred Arcaea had for Arcachon.

Draco Tanos

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #171: May 07, 2012, 07:58:23 AM »
Oh, I understand completely.  But remember, the people outside the realm can't see the protests and complaints.  Unless they are ICly (or in some cases at least OOCly) informed of such, they simply have to assume the ruler is acting with the consent of the masses.

Morningstar

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #172: May 07, 2012, 08:19:08 AM »
What partial updates did we get that affected food?

I honestly don't know what has been updated and what hasn't. Lots of things seem half done but since I didn't take office until after the update supposedly started going through, I don't have much to compare it to. All I know is that things tanked globally around the same time. I know our drought had been going on for a few real-world months and the ice just kinda broke. If they're unrelated, there's that. Regardless, Scarlett's right, we're a bit hamstrung in a lot of places waiting.

Velax

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #173: May 07, 2012, 08:36:08 AM »
I don't think anything affected food. The only changes I've seen are the addition of granaries (currently useless) and the new Duke titles, also currently useless.

We're probably just suffering through a bad drought.

Indirik

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #174: May 07, 2012, 12:39:20 PM »
Promises made to Arcachon don't count. They break so many treaties and agreements that we all stopped keeping track. ;)
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Scarlett

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #175: May 07, 2012, 02:23:37 PM »
Whether Velax is more deceitful than Me'hoe isn't even a proper comparison, much less a relevant one.

As the guy who wrote the treaty that Arcaea just 'broke' with Ohnar back when Galiard was Ohnar's PM, it's hilarious to even imagine that they're the same realms. Ohnar back then was still nominally Lasanar's successor realm, even if in name only. What exists today is not even recognizable.

"Deceitful" implies, er, deception. Treaties signed by one ruler in the middle ages were almost guaranteed to get broken by a future ruler. This is why one of the first thing new Kings would do is to have everybody re-swear fealty to him (or her), or else just make it an annual event. Why bother, when fealty was for life and sworn to the office and not the individual anyway? Because these things need maintenance and if you don't show up every once in a while and say "Hi there, we're still the same folks who had this treaty with you way back when!" then it's going to stop being relevant. BM kinda-sorta modeled this with the concept of "friction" even if it was never really implemented.

The idea that a King could sign a treaty, die the next day, and then have anybody expect that the treaty would hold up is laughable. It's a medieval political document, not a soccer tournament tree or a modern-day employment contract. Look no further than succession crisis: why is it that your vassals might all take the opportunity to revolt when one King goes and another gets crowned? It's not like their oaths say 'and ye shall have the opportunity to piss all over this oath if thy King shall perish.' It's that they understood that Kingdom - King equals Dumb and that's not a lot to go on.

Finally, every ruler is a little deceitful. Maybe they don't lie outright, but they are going to pick and choose what they say and when they say it. That's the game we're all in. I've never seen Me'hoe even try to play along. Could be why OW is short on friends right now.

D'Espana

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #176: May 07, 2012, 07:26:39 PM »
Is it possible that I am the only one in OW who actually thinks that the war makes sense in relation with the latter events, and is it also possible that no one else is sort of enjoying it?
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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #177: May 07, 2012, 08:13:25 PM »
I honestly don't know what has been updated and what hasn't. Lots of things seem half done but since I didn't take office until after the update supposedly started going through, I don't have much to compare it to. All I know is that things tanked globally around the same time. I know our drought had been going on for a few real-world months and the ice just kinda broke. If they're unrelated, there's that. Regardless, Scarlett's right, we're a bit hamstrung in a lot of places waiting.

Then stop complaining about the Dev team ruining the island, when in fact you don't know what you're talking about.

Read the announcement again. I'll even post it here:

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Beluaterra and Dwilight will get another 15% reduction in food production, to balance out food better, and make trade and looting more important.

Morningstar

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #178: May 07, 2012, 11:05:20 PM »
Then stop complaining about the Dev team ruining the island, when in fact you don't know what you're talking about.

Hostile, much? There's a good chunk of the dev team that I would be willing to say are some of the people I've known the longest and like the most in this game. I never complained about the Devs nor about anyone ruining the island.

To clarify, because much as you might have been implying, I'm not a complete and utter moron and know the difference between testing and stable islands, I was referencing the following:
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Posted: April 05, 2012, 11:26:03 AMStable Update
Just a short info to let you know that we are moving forward on the big update to stable. It should be coming within the next few weeks.

-- Tom

and
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Anyway, the entire FEI is playing RegionMaintenanceMaster until the new estates and market system rolls out. There hasn't been a proper war in ages.

But hey, if you'd like to be helpful instead of just snarky and spiteful, could you let us know what, if anything, has been rolled over to stable? The dynamic map has been changed for awhile now but aside from that, are we still waiting on everything else?

I recall reading on the forum somewhere that the big update is coming this week.

Oh look, helpfulness. Thanks.

Velax

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Re: Calm before the storm on FEI
« Reply #179: May 08, 2012, 02:03:53 PM »
Yikes. That's a bit harsh. Banning, immediately arresting and then executing one of your own realm members.