The Terran-Kabrinskian Conflict

[Kellaine]

Anyone who was paying attention to the island for the last, oh, two RL years, would know that picking a fight with any of the Moot realms would get you into war with all three. I warned Allison about this IC before she started the war.

So get over this "fair fight" garbage. Kabrinskia knew what it was getting into before they started the war that both sides wanted. To claim otherwise is criminal negligence or OOC metagaming.

You know your right, but also I am tired of hearing that bringing in the zuma is not fair.  It is we have an agreement with the Zuma and that agreement is to war Terran.  Let the war commence.

[Graeth]

So your saying that because Asylon took in many of the refugees from Caerwyn that that gives Asylon claim on the regions that they lost due to war. I think that is a bit presumptuous of Asylon.

I am not sure but did Asylon war Caerwyn? If not then they deserve none of the War Prizes. If they did then it appears to me that they got more than their fair share already.

No, because we had a mutual agreement with Kabrinskia.  Not very presumptuous, Asylon knew Allison was coming in and tried to work out borders beforehand to keep things civil.  I'm almost positive Mech Alb was not agreed to Allison for the very fact that our realms had an extensive RP argument over this fact after our judge insulted her but I didn't save any of these conversations on my computer.  Would be odd for her to claim a region she already had in response to a conflict...

[Chenier]

Anyone who was paying attention to the island for the last, oh, two RL years, would know that picking a fight with any of the Moot realms would get you into war with all three. I warned Allison about this IC before she started the war.

So get over this "fair fight" garbage. Kabrinskia knew what it was getting into before they started the war that both sides wanted. To claim otherwise is criminal negligence or OOC metagaming.

Kabrinskia wanted war, but not everyone in the 'moot shared the feeling. However, she did manage to do rather well to convince pretty much everyone that she was a threat with which war was inevitable. Some of us were fine with delaying the inevitable, however.

On the bright side, when she came to provoke D'Hara, it stimulated massive military investments. Walls were completed everywhere they were lacking, bunch of brand new RCs propped up, the decent ones got significantly enlarged, etc. She made us realize that we were exposed and vulnerable. Maybe she should have just jumped on the opportunity instead of trying, in vain, to make us declare war on her. We are *much* more apt to defend ourselves today than we were then.

You know your right, but also I am tired of hearing that bringing in the zuma is not fair.  It is we have an agreement with the Zuma and that agreement is to war Terran.  Let the war commence.

It is not fair because, as far as we know, the Zuma are meant to stay and so no matter how well we do against them, they will never be allowed to be defeated. You basically have an ally of infinite CS, and you are telling us to "suck it up", because of how easily the Zuma go kiss foreigner ass. Seems like any random stranger can come up to the Zuma and make them mobilize their army these days.

As players, we don't like the Zuma. We did not know of them when we set up, they were not part of the reasons why we set up where we did. You could have brought in 30 000 CS of SA armies to support you and we wouldn't have minded. Saying you brought "just 10 000 CS" of Zuma is really dishonest.

[JPierreD]

If it had been a one on one war the way it should have been, it would have been a fair fight and an interesting war. But no, Dhara, Barca, and Asylon had to get involved.

Ah, poor Kabrinskia! Has no huge rich and powerful realms protecting from any foreign aggression they did not call on themselves.

I would really like to see you complaining if Astrum and/or the other theocracies came to you aid against a single realm attacking you.

Please, let's try to be a little more impartial.

[Marlboro]

Pretty simple strategy here. You need to fight a war of attrition with the Zuma since they cannot maintain their CS once they're engaged in earnest. Sure, if they blow up your army you have to go refit, but you'll leave a nice dent in theirs too. Then next time you fight them they're not as strong. And then the third time you blow them apart. They don't have a capital a couple days' travel away, and their leader is probably just as killable as a hero assuming Fang Fang functions in the same vein as Nightfall/Midnight/Darkest Hour/Overlord/Every other Daimon leader in the game.

It's not unwinnable by any stretch of the imagination, you just refuse to even try. Using OOC complaining to beat them looks pretty sad.

[Graeth]

Pretty simple strategy here. You need to fight a war of attrition with the Zuma since they cannot maintain their CS once they're engaged in earnest. Sure, if they blow up your army you have to go refit, but you'll leave a nice dent in theirs too. Then next time you fight them they're not as strong. And then the third time you blow them apart. They don't have a capital a couple days' travel away, and their leader is probably just as killable as a hero assuming Fang Fang functions in the same vein as Nightfall/Midnight/Darkest Hour/Overlord/Every other Daimon leader in the game.

It's not unwinnable by any stretch of the imagination, you just refuse to even try. Using OOC complaining to beat them looks pretty sad.

Except for the fact that they regenerate CS in the field while other realms must travel to their capital.

[Kellaine]

Except for the fact that they regenerate CS in the field while other realms must travel to their capital.

Then hit them with enough CS to take them out to begin with.

[Graeth]

Look I'm not complaining about the principle of it, nor do I know how their coding works.  The daimons on Bel are meant to be fought, but on Dwilight this is the first time they've stepped into player vs player conflict.  From what our scouts have reported it appeared that they were able to respawn more daimons in rogue territories.  We also know that they can summon what appears to be unlimited amounts of troops from the Volcano with no repercussions as these events have been witnessed since players began exploring the regions. 

It is just disappointing from a OOC perspective that the first time we finally have an interesting SA vs non-SA conflict with multiple realms the GMs step in to stop it.

[Dante Silverfire]

Except for the fact that they regenerate CS in the field while other realms must travel to their capital.

This is not explicitly correct.

They do have a means of gaining strength, but it is not simply: "Stand around and get stronger". There are legitimate game mechanics which limit the Zuma behind this. All of the research I and others have done into the matter suggest this.

Lack of knowledge of the specifics doesn't eliminate the fact that the Zuma are in fact limited.

---

Another note: Do you really think it is likely that Kabrinskia would start a 3v1 war (which they did) without knowing they would have the support of the Zuma? The whole point from the beginning was that the Zuma would help Kabrinskia in the fight if more than just Terran fought. If you make the assertion that the Zuma are stagnating the war, you are ignoring the entire piece of evidence that this war would never have been started if it weren't for the Zuma support.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Also, I would like to point out that everyone who is complaining about the "unlimited troops" of the Zuma would like to look and see that they are only using one unit, that was already outside of Zuma lands, in this war. That seems pretty limited to me...

[Graeth]

Also, I would like to point out that everyone who is complaining about the "unlimited troops" of the Zuma would like to look and see that they are only using one unit, that was already outside of Zuma lands, in this war. That seems pretty limited to me...

You need more scouts.  Haktoo and Flame are already on the way, each controlling more troops.  For Asylon it isn't simply a matter of just fighting the Zuma.  We were the first realm to enter a peaceful relations with them and much of our RP has been based on maintaining relations with them.

[Anaris]

You need more scouts.  Haktoo and Flame are already on the way, each controlling more troops.  For Asylon it isn't simply a matter of just fighting the Zuma.  We were the first realm to enter a peaceful relations with them and much of our RP has been based on maintaining relations with them.

I hope you'll forgive an ignorant Lurian for butting in, but I though I'd heard that Haktoo was there for some sort of diplomatic powwow with the Astroists?

[Dante Silverfire]

  We also know that they can summon what appears to be unlimited amounts of troops from the Volcano with no repercussions as these events have been witnessed since players began exploring the regions. 

I'd also like to point out that this statement lacks any sort of evidence to back up the "with no repercussions".

Imagine an army besieging a capital and the capitol has 5k cs defenders in it. Then all of a sudden when the turn comes around there are 10k cs worth of defenders. This could be seen as "summoning troops" and there are no apparent repercussions. However, we all know there are legitimate game mechanics behind this. We don't need to actually know how many troops are in a human realm recruitment center to know they have a limit, and neither do we need to know the exact same for the Zuma. They are limited and they have specific things they require.

[Glaumring the Fox]

One unit amongst many controlled by one gm... Yeah so limited.

[Dante Silverfire]

One unit amongst many controlled by one gm... Yeah so limited.

Strong and limited is different from strong and unlimited. Saying they are the same is misrepresentation.