A "no whining" policy ?

[Tom]

I'd like to introduce a "no whining policy" to the game, maybe as part of the social contract.

Two reasons and a definition:

The reasons are for one that whining inside the game, e.g. in an OOC message to your realm, really doesn't do any good at all. If your complaint is legitimate, then it was posted somewhere where very likely nobody who can do anything about it (dev team, GM, etc.) is listening. Reason two is that it disrupts the gameplay and spreads the frustration from one player to many. It shows disrespect towards the other players, who might be enjoying the game just fine.

By whining I mean OOC complaints spread to a wide audience. Complaints of the kind that the audience receiving it can't do anything about. Venting, frustration, etc.

Note that I'm not saying you can't say anything when you're frustrated or upset. What I'm saying is that it should go to the proper forum board, and stay out of the game.


Thoughts?

[Chenier]

Maybe on Dwilight, but I'd disagree with elsewhere.

OOC messages have always been part of the game, and a lot of players, especially the more silent ones, are more comfortable discussing special events with the people they play with every day than with random strangers on an intimidating forum they never participated in.

Venting can also be therapeutic sometimes. I've seen a few occasions where something frustrating happened and multiple mostly silent people spoke up OOC to vent their frustrations. Honestly, these were the moments where I truly felt like I was playing as part of a team as this game used to be, as opposed to the free-for-all with a bunch of anonymous players the game has begun.

And besides, the limit between a legitimate and illegitimate complaint is thin and subjective.

A large chunk of the player base doesn't use the forums. I don't feel we should censor them.

[Norrel]

I don't see the necessity of it. People like to vent, censoring it just makes it seem like there's something to cover up.

[Daycryn]

In my opinion and experience venting doesn't actually help; it is more likely only to increase the amount of venting and counter-venting and whatnot.

I've seen too much random venting done OOC posted to the realm or religion or whatever; where it does no good until and unless a dev team member catches word or happens to be included in the message group is. If there is an issue with BM-level events or whatnot I think it should be posted to the forum and not to the realm.

It's kind of sad when there's so little IC character interaction and communication and then one person complains OOC to the realm and then there's a flurry of discussion, often pages and pages of it, where it really just distracts from the game and again doesn't do much good.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Yes, but as people have already stated, not everyone uses the forums. for obvious reasons. Anyways, this is a matter that's way too subjective for something like this. One person's whining is another person's just trying to get some help.

[Daycryn]

Well, maybe they should use the forums.

Since they're here and all.

[Velax]

I think the idea is ridiculous, and a knee-jerk reaction to the players' reaction to the Beluaterra mortality message. Comes across far too much as "You're not allowed to criticise the game."

[Foundation]

Trying to restrict that type of OOC will be going on a rough road filled with opposition for no measurable gain.

[Tom]

Yes, but as people have already stated, not everyone uses the forums.

But everyone could use the forum, so that's not an excuse. That's like saying it's ok to piss into my doorway because not everyone uses a toilet. Sure, they have to piss somewhere, but there's a perfectly good place to do it.

[Tom]

I think the idea is ridiculous, and a knee-jerk reaction to the players' reaction to the Beluaterra mortality message. Comes across far too much as "You're not allowed to criticise the game."

Then I wasn't clear enough and you are welcome to improve on my formulation. But the point is that criticism in the wrong place does more harm than good. What good is criticism if nobody who can do anything about it hears it? Heck, I don't mind creating a General Whining board if that's what it takes.

And yeah, there's a bit of a reaction in there. I have a very strong distaste for talking about people behind their backs. You want to say something about me? Say it to my face.

The problem with both the personal and the game "criticism" is that the dissenting views are rarely posted. There are lots of people enjoying things just like they are, but they don't post about it in OOC messages to the realm. The whining creates a wrong impression and bad atmosphere, because the non-whiners correctly abstain from abusing the in-game OOC for discussions

Basically, in the "boardgame with friends" metaphor, I feel like having invited an !@#$%^& who waits until the host leaves the room before telling everyone that the curtains suck and he hates the food. I know that as a fellow guest I'd feel awkward. As the host, I feel insulted. Not because you don't like my curtains, but because you talk behind my back, and that in my home.

[GoldPanda]

What if someone mistakes friendly teasing for an OOC complaint? Some people have really thin skin. And it's easier to misinterpret a joke over text. :p

[Tom]

What if someone mistakes friendly teasing for an OOC complaint? Some people have really thin skin. And it's easier to misinterpret a joke over text. :p

You have little trust in the Magistrates to sort that out, do you?

[Chenier]

You have little trust in the Magistrates to sort that out, do you?

I don't think the magistrates should go over that.

As for the forums, it's certainly not a light-weight means of discussion.

As long as players don't verbally abuse each other, I think OOC censorship is detrimental to the game.

[jaune]

I would welcome removal of whole OOC message type from the game. It very often causes these crappy OOC flamewars, cheating accusations and all kind of crappy whining.

Mayby add OOC tag only if sent to certain messagegroup(ea. council, army, single character etc. if you want to point out that you will be away or smthng like that) other OOC poop dont belong inside the game.

-Jaune

[Anaris]

I would welcome removal of whole OOC message type from the game. It very often causes these crappy OOC flamewars, cheating accusations and all kind of crappy whining.

Mayby add OOC tag only if sent to certain messagegroup(ea. council, army, single character etc. if you want to point out that you will be away or smthng like that) other OOC poop dont belong inside the game.

-Jaune

How many times have we been over this?

Removing the OOC message tag from the game would not magically prevent people from sending OOC messages. It would only mean that the people who don't want to receive them would have no way of filtering them out.