Mocking the Magistrate decision

[Darksun]

I remember a whole realm got turned rogue once on FEI. Not saying the same should happen to LE... but I wouldn't mind for the way they've been playing.

Lorgan,

Please cite examples of how the realm has been playing in a matter that is inconsistent with the social contract, otherwise disassociate the player of a single character from the group of 20 players who make up the realm.

[Lorgan]

Lorgan,

Please cite examples of how the realm has been playing in a matter that is inconsistent with the social contract, otherwise disassociate the player of a single character from the group of 20 players who make up the realm.

I'm not in Summerdale or in LE, I'm all the way South in LN so I can't give any details, all I can say is that I've followed this case and if you are ordered by the Magistrates - in what is in my opinion a very lenient sentence - to disband the militia, that you gained by a bug exploitation, in a strategic region, that you also gained by bug exploitation, as fast as possible, then you better do it. Because frankly, you've already gained enough by even being allowed to keep the region in the first place.

What I'm reading everywhere however is that you've been trying to postpone it, you've been adding your own militia before removing it all, the player of Orris or whatever he's called again has had the time to run around a bit and replace his unit with a new fancy one.... All of it points to the entire realm of LE not taking this seriously and purposely exploiting a bug.

If you were honest in all of this, you would have said "Ok, we got the region back, nice. Now give that Orris some gold and get him to disband all of the militia immediately so we can get on with this war."
In stead you went and postponed and delayed and now you've gotten Morek on your side and your safe anyway. And still you haven't removed all the militia.

The fact is that LE benefitted from the stale-mate that resulted from the region switch and you have used every bit of time that it granted you to strengthen your position - from adding your own militia to ensuring Morek's help - in stead of letting this war run it's natural, less beneficent, course. That is something that cannot be blamed on one player, you can maybe blame the amount of time on him, but you cannot blame him for the way you used that time. That's all on you.

If it'd be up to me, I'd switch the region right back to Summerdale with all of the militia you've added. And I think that's what should've been done in the first place to prevent this bug from being even more abused, which it has been. By LE, not just by Orris.

And no I'm not saying that you shouldn't do all you can to win this war, but you should have done it after doing what you were told to do by the Magistrates. And you should've been happy with it, others wouldn't have been so lenient. And apparently, they would've been right not to be.

[Dante Silverfire]

I'm not a magistrate and I don't have any particular leanings on this particular case, but I am curious as to what exactly is being proposed here?

I mean, I can understand that something like a 3 day lock on the player's account in response to not disbanding the militia as requested, is reasonable, but if you lock his account, does he still have to disband the militia afterwards, or is that punishment enough? Because if you do lock his account, then you are also still delaying the removal of the militia.

But if you perhaps just lock his account for the max 3 days, and call that quits, then that makes a bit more sense in my opinion.

This behavior definitely should be discouraged, but there is a difference between punishment and trying to show someone somehting isn't wanted, and completely destroying someone's gaming experience permanently. For instance, lets say you lock for 3 days, then say he must disband the militia within 2 days or he gets another 3 day lock, and so on. What if he can't log on for those 2 days at all? You've just cut him out for an entire week, and forced all of his character to abdicate every position. (Not just in that realm).

Me personally, I know just a 3 day lock on my account could drastically destroy some of my character's positions, or even realms as a whole. (If my Duke was locked for 3 days, Coria could be destroyed because of it.)

I just think the judgements should take into account how the judgement itself is punishment and "fixing" enough of the situation in and of itself somewhat.

[Draco Tanos]

I would say a 3 day lock for disregarding the order, give 48 to 72 hours after that for him to disband the militia when the lock is lifted and, if again ignored, another lock.

But then, I believe actually punishing people gets better results than what amounts to a slap on the wrist and showing people that at the worst you get a 3 day lock for ignoring the magistrates and your misdeeds are allowed to continue.

[Penchant]

I would say a 3 day lock for disregarding the order, give 48 to 72 hours after that for him to disband the militia when the lock is lifted and, if again ignored, another lock.

But then, I believe actually punishing people gets better results than what amounts to a slap on the wrist and showing people that at the worst you get a 3 day lock for ignoring the magistrates and your misdeeds are allowed to continue.

Good job at completely ignoring Dante's post. You say it is a slap on the wrist but 3 days can be a lot. And honestly the whole a public warning thing doesn't work doesn't matter as Summerdale went on SA and trash talked Orris and the queen of LE too I believe. The queen's reputation didn't really get hurt but Orris's reputation has been trashed in game and the family ooc for his other characters which I am sure Summerdale players will treat differently in their realm with all their characters.  Also if I was told that my account would be locked continously if I wasn't able to disband the militia in the deadline I would just quit BM. Sure, I could get it done eventually though I might not be available for a couple days and then I would lose all my titles of which Orris has for his other characters that aren't easy to get. Right now some players of Summerdale seem trying to make Orris have to quit or at the very least wreck the rest of the time he plays.

[Indirik]

Nobody "trashed talked orris and the queen of LE" inside SA. The only thing that happened in SA was that Summerdale arrested an SA priest. What else she was is irrelevant, so far as many people are concerned.

Honestly, if you don't knkow what you're talking about, and it's all speculation and guesswork, then keep it to yourself.

[Penchant]

After reexamining it was more of two characters who decided to talk bad about both Orris and the LE Queen.

when the vile witchcraft and daimon-worship of Orris Morton is cleansed from Mount Nastrond; when the slithering Queen of the Liberates has no more villages to hide within--she hides even now in the pigpens and the haystacks of Torrent's Breath in a way unbecoming of true majesty;

Orris Morton hired the services of a witch to turn our soldiers in Mt. Black against us. I have no quarrel with the other nobles of Libero, but his crimes shall not be forgotten.

My eyes have not seen the good Queen in her true whereabouts, therefore my tongue should be still. Yet my own eyes have seen the bewitching of five hundred Dalian men on Mount Nastrond in a most inexplicable manner. Monstrously, they do not even have feelings for the families they left behind them, the honor that they have broken. It is marvellous strange, and his Reverend Excellence may perhaps wish to examine the matter further for his own peace of mind.

These matters at least bear investigation. Now that it is in the open, I demand that Queen Elsebeth explain the actions of her subject, or an investigation is begun immediately. If neither is done, I would call the legitimacy of her position in these halls into question. I shall trust that the nobility of Libero had no part in this; but if she does not either condemn or explain the actions of Orris Morton, what are we to think?

"He ensorcells men to break faith with their rightful lords, and he commands the monstrous to his bidding. They say he keeps a witch with him, an ugly old hag, with more warts than hairs on her wrinkled head. To dark demons beneath the earth, where the auspicious star never has shone, she made an evil pact. She traded her fair features and gained foul magicks! But what the demons drained from her beauty, they added to her carnal lusts. The word is... she comes to Morton's bedchambers at night, and for the cost of a good hard drabbing, the ugly bitch lends him her vile powers next morning!"

This does seem like the characters of Tancred and Cairo were bad-mouthing Orris and the queen of Libero Empire since everyone of those quotes were from one of the two. I did say in game which I meant as in character. I would not say my thought of Orris and the queen of Libero Empire to be "speculation and guesswork" considering they are quotes there not things I made up.

[Brant]

trashed talked orris and the queen of LE

I do remember that message but it was more Orris, the Queen got an apology.   He as a character has definitely been vilified within Summerdale, but that was IC and any future vilification will be IC.  The punishment is for the player not the character and should thus be OOC.

Right now some players of Summerdale seem trying to make Orris have to quit or at the very least wreck the rest of the time he plays.

Now you're making a generalization.  I'd be happy if someone in Libero would OOC the results of the last court case realm wide (since the public warn feature doesn't work).   I don't want anyone to feel like they have to quit over this, but I do want the players involved to know what happened and that it was improper.  Yes, his good name has been dragged through the mud here on the forum, I personally think that's the worst punishment the court can meld out.

As for the IC effect this has had on the game world, his act changed the course of a war.   Taking what would have been a fun fight and turning it into a... well, what it is now.  I don't think anything we can do -now- could fix that, there's been too much time for them to make the region impenetrable.

[Penchant]

Now you're making a generalization.

I did say some but you are right that I probably shouldn't have said that as it is more of a generalization.

[Morton]

Dear Players, 
     I do not feel i am "mocking" the magistrate's decision.  Those words are rather harsh.  I did disband some of the militia, but ran out of funds.  I then explained the defection of the remaining Summerdale troops in character, having them join our realm because of the freedom it offers as opposed to the oppression of Summerdale, being led far away from their homes to be an occupation force.
      I recieved some gold from another player in order to rebuild my forces so i could continue disbanding militia. But the pending attack by our enemies. has left me with the feeling that disbanding them now would be a betrayal of my fellow realmmates.  I earlier did  destroy the recruiting centers in Mt Black, that i had constructed.  I'll abide by whatever decision you say, deleting the character, leaving the game, whatever.  I've enjoyed the game since 2008, I have never cheated, and do not feel i have at this time.  Indeed, I wonder how many ore "power gaming" having multiple characters in Dwilight, when we should each have but one?  But that is another story, for another day...

[Marlboro]

Dude, don't quit. Not over this.

[Broose]

After reexamining it was more of two characters who decided to talk bad about both Orris and the LE Queen. This does seem like the characters of Tancred and Cairo were bad-mouthing Orris and the queen of Libero Empire since everyone of those quotes were from one of the two. I did say in game which I meant as in character. I would not say my thought of Orris and the queen of Libero Empire to be "speculation and guesswork" considering they are quotes there not things I made up.

You're mixing up IC and OOC again. What does this have to do with anything? Are you claiming that our in-character messages were just sent to make Orris' player quit?

Dear Players, 
     I do not feel i am "mocking" the magistrate's decision.  Those words are rather harsh.  I did disband some of the militia, but ran out of funds.  I then explained the defection of the remaining Summerdale troops in character, having them join our realm because of the freedom it offers as opposed to the oppression of Summerdale, being led far away from their homes to be an occupation force.
      I recieved some gold from another player in order to rebuild my forces so i could continue disbanding militia. But the pending attack by our enemies. has left me with the feeling that disbanding them now would be a betrayal of my fellow realmmates.  I earlier did  destroy the recruiting centers in Mt Black, that i had constructed.  I'll abide by whatever decision you say, deleting the character, leaving the game, whatever.  I've enjoyed the game since 2008, I have never cheated, and do not feel i have at this time.  Indeed, I wonder how many ore "power gaming" having multiple characters in Dwilight, when we should each have but one?  But that is another story, for another day...

If you think we're multis, report it to the magistrates. Making a public accusation like that (with no proof) is against the rules.

[Anaris]

I then explained the defection of the remaining Summerdale troops in character, having them join our realm because of the freedom it offers as opposed to the oppression of Summerdale, being led far away from their homes to be an occupation force.

This is absolutely inappropriate and in direct contravention to the verdict of the Magistrates.

[Penchant]

You're mixing up IC and OOC again. What does this have to do with anything? Are you claiming that our in-character messages were just sent to make Orris' player quit?

I stated in an earlier post that the public warning doesn't seem needed considering they have, in my opinion, said he was cheating though it was in-character, and otherwise badmouthed his character which seems a punishment in itself, though I am not argueing that should be the only punishment. So my point is this makes a public warning not necessary since it has already been circulated and that this should be included as a punishment that has been one whether considered minor or not, when people say the player is getting a slap on the wrist.

[Darksun]

I'm not in Summerdale or in LE, I'm all the way South in LN so I can't give any details, all I can say is that I've followed this case and if you are ordered by the Magistrates - in what is in my opinion a very lenient sentence - to disband the militia, that you gained by a bug exploitation, in a strategic region, that you also gained by bug exploitation, as fast as possible, then you better do it. Because frankly, you've already gained enough by even being allowed to keep the region in the first place.

True and we've supplied the player with gold  to do this.

What I'm reading everywhere however is that you've been trying to postpone it, you've been adding your own militia before removing it all, the player of Orris or whatever he's called again has had the time to run around a bit and replace his unit with a new fancy one.... All of it points to the entire realm of LE not taking this seriously and purposely exploiting a bug.

This is patently FALSE. No single person in the realm has attempted to influence or ask the player of Orris to postpone the disbanding of the militia. See the previous statement - gold has been requested and supplied to Orris to help deal with this issue. However, it would be completely folly not to reinforce a region with new militia - this was not prohibited by the ruling and was already going on before the verdict was doled out.

If you were honest in all of this, you would have said "Ok, we got the region back, nice. Now give that Orris some gold and get him to disband all of the militia immediately so we can get on with this war."
In stead you went and postponed and delayed and now you've gotten Morek on your side and your safe anyway. And still you haven't removed all the militia.

You're making assumptions that are not true again. We've done that - so by your logic we are all now honest players. The whole sideshow with Morek is irrelevant to your point and fully in line with in character expectations. It was Morek that contacted us, not the other way around.

The fact is that LE benefitted from the stale-mate that resulted from the region switch and you have used every bit of time that it granted you to strengthen your position - from adding your own militia to ensuring Morek's help - in stead of letting this war run it's natural, less beneficent, course. That is something that cannot be blamed on one player, you can maybe blame the amount of time on him, but you cannot blame him for the way you used that time. That's all on you.

So, according to you, we should have just sat around for WEEKS until some player logs on to do his part? That is outrageous, and quite frankly disgusting from a veteran player - especially one that plays on a testing island. The standing policy is "play through the bugs" and what's what we've done. Have we benefited from this one? That's not even debatable, we have. The universe is always in it for the long haul though, I'm sure there will be some equalization.

If it'd be up to me, I'd switch the region right back to Summerdale with all of the militia you've added. And I think that's what should've been done in the first place to prevent this bug from being even more abused, which it has been. By LE, not just by Orris.

And no I'm not saying that you shouldn't do all you can to win this war, but you should have done it after doing what you were told to do by the Magistrates. And you should've been happy with it, others wouldn't have been so lenient. And apparently, they would've been right not to be.

I'm glad you don't run the game. I doubt there'd be many players left if that's the way you treat an entire realm for the lack of action by one player. This case isn't about the Libero Empire, it is about the player of Orris Morton. Your unfounded, slanderous comments about a group of players does nothing to enhance the player community or progress the case at hand other than add more misinformation. Perhaps you'd like to ask for some facts before you go posting wild assertions about the behaviour of realm in the future.