Author Topic: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict  (Read 17376 times)

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Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Topic Start: May 16, 2012, 06:54:06 PM »
Summary:Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
Violation:Clause 2: Fair Play (Original Judgement)
World:East Continent
Complainer:Ryan Baldock
About:Joseph Lant

Full Complaint Text:


   (This petition has multiple defendants as identified in the  "Fontan deportee returns"thread in the Magistrates Q&A forum - the second here is the player of the Cordon-D'Anerville family, ID is 29103.)
 
   
 
   As identified by the player of the Dragul family, and Peter (aka Foundation on the forums) in the previously mentioned thread, the defendants have returned to their points of origin after a magistrate judgement was enforced against them due to being in violation of Clause 2 of the Social Contract regarding fair play and being in a group of players which did not invest in a constructive gaming community, as found by a Dev Team investigation as well as discussion and judgement by the Magistrates.
 
   
 
   When the original case was brought by Tom, he proposed the following in his original complaint:
 
   
 
   "I propose to break up the clan by deporting a randomly selected half of their members from both realms to randomly selected other islands, where they can then join realms of their own choice. I also propose to prohibit them from re-forming within the same realm at a size of more than one third of the number of characters in those realms for the period of one year."
 
   
 
   While there was no explicit mention of this in the original judgement of the Magistrates, it should be noted that both players have returned to their point of origin after the minimum length of time possible as per the game mechanics regarding emigration allows for. As such, it is felt that both players are openly defying the verdict in the original case.
 
   
 
   With that in mind, I ask that the Magistrates look again at the punishment handed out and consider whether any additional sanctions need to be carried out. There is precedent for this, as noted in the second case against the player of the Orton family and failure to disband militia completely after an initial Magistrate verdict on the matter.
 
   
 
   



Chaotrance13

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #1: May 16, 2012, 07:06:22 PM »
Addendum:

Posts detailing evidence of the "minimum time required" portion of the complaint are here:
Post #1 (Player from Fontan)
Post #2 (Player from Aurvandil)

I should also note that in the original discussion, it was in fact Velax who pointed out that one of the defendants had returned, not Katayanna. My apologies to Velax for that error.

DamnTaffer

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #2: May 17, 2012, 12:16:35 AM »
I would as a side note like to know how Velax found this information out? I quite doubt it was discovered from daily refreshing all the profiles of the deported saxons to see if they'd moved

Gustav Kuriga

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #3: May 17, 2012, 02:02:39 AM »
I would as a side note like to know how Velax found this information out? I quite doubt it was discovered from daily refreshing all the profiles of the deported saxons to see if they'd moved

Well duh. He'd know who to look out for because he saw them get booted out of his own realm. So he just saw the name, and went to the profile. It's relatively simple.

Velax

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #4: May 17, 2012, 03:33:47 AM »
I would as a side note like to know how Velax found this information out? I quite doubt it was discovered from daily refreshing all the profiles of the deported saxons to see if they'd moved

Not really sure how that's relevant, to be honest, but one of the deportees ended up in my realm on FEI. He made no effort whatsoever to integrate, never sent a single message that I saw, ignored all the messages I sent him, never moved outside the capital and then left back to EC. I assumed he would be returning to Fontan and I was not proved wrong.

Tom

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #5: May 17, 2012, 11:03:22 AM »
Not really sure how that's relevant, to be honest, but one of the deportees ended up in my realm on FEI. He made no effort whatsoever to integrate, never sent a single message that I saw, ignored all the messages I sent him, never moved outside the capital and then left back to EC. I assumed he would be returning to Fontan and I was not proved wrong.

Yes, that is relevant information. It strongly supports the original verdict that these players are playing as a clan and don't give a flying !@#$ about the rest of the BM community or game.


vonGenf

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #6: May 17, 2012, 12:02:19 PM »
I also propose to prohibit them from re-forming within the same realm at a size of more than one third of the number of characters in those realms for the period of one year.

Are they currently in breach of that part of the judgment?
After all it's a roleplaying game.

Kellaine

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #7: May 17, 2012, 01:05:25 PM »
not that it matters, but the rest of the clan members all auto paused tonight at the same time or at least 8 of them did.

Lord paused   (4 hours ago)
Mozny Radziwilzl' (Lord) has been auto-paused due to inactivity.

Knight paused   (4 hours ago)
Yvonne Peugeot (Dame of Negev) has been auto-paused due to inactivity.

Knight paused   (4 hours ago)
Druhtinaz Vanimedle' (Knight of Oporto) has been auto-paused due to inactivity.

Noble paused   (4 hours ago)
Corvian Stratharch (Noble) has been auto-paused due to inactivity.

Noble paused   (4 hours ago)
Tervius Stratharch (Noble) has been auto-paused due to inactivity.

Noble paused   (4 hours ago)
James Hind the Highwayman (Noble) has been auto-paused due to inactivity.

Noble paused   (4 hours ago)
Nilos Radziwilzl' (Noble) has been auto-paused due to inactivity.

Noble paused   (4 hours ago)
Claude Duval the Highwayman (Noble) has been auto-paused due to inactivity.
Dexter - Principality of Zonasa, Telgar - Principality of Zonasa, Wil - Morek Empire, Crom- Adventurer - Kabrinskia-paused

Chaotrance13

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #8: May 17, 2012, 04:08:23 PM »
Are they currently in breach of that part of the judgment?

As I said in my complaint - that was a suggestion by Tom in the case dealing with the clan in the first instance. It wasn't referred to in the actual Magistrate judgement, so I don't know if it was imposed at all. However, as this case is now under review, it may be taken into consideration, it may not. That's up to the Magistrates as we both know.

If that were to be considered, they'd not be in total breach, in all honesty. They'd be in breach of the time requirement but not the "numbers" requirement (the whole thing about 1/3rd and such). But that's more of a hypothetical and, of course, that is prohibited when discussing cases.

« Last Edit: May 17, 2012, 04:18:55 PM by Ravier »

Velax

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #9: May 17, 2012, 04:30:20 PM »
The Magistrate decision did say: "The goal of this unusual action is to compel the members of this clan to try playing the game separately, as individuals, rather than as a collective that plays the game primarily as a group. As it is their collectivist approach to conflict and power that creates the violations that we have determined exist, we believe that this is the best option to correct the situation and it is our hope that these players can learn to enjoy the game as it was meant to be."

The entire point of the punishment was to separate this clan. They would have been well aware of that when they were punished but at least one or two chose to disregard it completely, making no effort whatsoever to play with anyone other than their clan mates.

Chaotrance13

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #10: May 17, 2012, 04:50:40 PM »
The Magistrate decision did say: "The goal of this unusual action is to compel the members of this clan to try playing the game separately, as individuals, rather than as a collective that plays the game primarily as a group. As it is their collectivist approach to conflict and power that creates the violations that we have determined exist, we believe that this is the best option to correct the situation and it is our hope that these players can learn to enjoy the game as it was meant to be."

The entire point of the punishment was to separate this clan. They would have been well aware of that when they were punished but at least one or two chose to disregard it completely, making no effort whatsoever to play with anyone other than their clan mates.

Indeed, this is why I started the case - the fact that two players have chosen to disregard the original decision and certainly the spirit of it as well by choosing to return to Fontan/Aurvandil after the minimum amount of time spent on other islands. Added to that, it has been stated now at least one of these players made no active engagement on their new island (FEI in this case) with other players after being forcibly deported. Of course, that can be proven by a member of the Dev Team if they so wish it as well.

DamnTaffer

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #11: May 18, 2012, 01:04:29 AM »
Yes, that is relevant information. It strongly supports the original verdict that these players are playing as a clan and don't give a flying !@#$ about the rest of the BM community or game.

It strongly supports the original verdict that THESE TWO players are playing as a clan and don't give a flying !@#$ about the rest of the bm community or the game


Indirik

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #12: May 18, 2012, 01:14:17 AM »
Did anyone ever check to see if those who were deported simply created new characters in the realms from which they were deported?
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Vellos

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #13: May 18, 2012, 01:20:21 AM »
Doesn't look to be the case. I don't know the complete final list of deported accounts, but the set I looked through seemed like mostly they either paused their whole account (sad but not shocking), moved back (annoying and unacceptable), or started new characters in totally new places (wonderful!).
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Indirik

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Re: Failure to abide by Magistrate verdict
« Reply #14: May 18, 2012, 01:22:59 AM »
Any rash of new accounts in the two realms affected?
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