Luria

[vonGenf]

Literally nothing you just typed is true

It may not be literally true, but it fits with we have seen from D'Hara's viewpoint. IC, that's fine - misinformation is part of the game. There is an OOC truth out there, but I don't always know what it is and I don't always want to know.

What Anaris said isn't true either - Skyndarbau just said that's not at all what he was trying to communicate. What Anaris said is Alanna's point of view, just like Chénier communicates Machiavel's point of view.

Now, Skyndarbau said Anaris was wrong in a much less abrasive way, I'll grant you that. Still, be careful before you accuse people that way. There is a difference between being wrong and lying purposefully.

[Chenier]

I'm going to comment once, to the above, in response to many other statements like it. And then I'm not going to comment on it again, and just give up on you. Do you have any idea how annoying it is to see someone repeatedly confirm the negative stereotypes that are attributed to them? Especially when you've tried to argue otherwise?

Literally nothing you just typed is true, and this is a common pattern. It's fine to set your character or your realm in opposition to someone or something else just for entertainment. It's okay to speculatively comment on IC events. It shouldn't be okay to repeatedly state things that are completely untethered from reality, in a way that blurs the line between what you—as a player—actually think and what you have your character do as a result. Especially when people are either providing evidence to the contrary, or are willing to patiently and honestly explain IC events. Some people like to talk about the game without !@#$ting up the forums and poisoning the atmosphere. Are you capable of at least trying? Because this kind of attitude infects other people and balkanizes an already small player base.

Take note, folks: if you want to "win" BattleMaster, the surest way is to just drive everyone away until you're the only one still playing.

Which part, exactly?

Because being part of the Lurian Empire, but getting minority votes, is nothing short of annexation.

And your queen was calling off her troops many days ago, before any of the so-called provocation from Fissoa, and before any real answer on their part to your proposal.

...
Since then, morale has dropped significantly; few want to fight in this war for a number of reasons. First, there are Vesperian and Solarian holdings that need to be taken over, followed by a significant amount of region maintenance. Second, travel times are harsh by land, and our armies large and subsequently expensive by water. Third, and most importantly, Fissoa decided that it would be a superb idea to bring D'Hara along. Not a soul in my realm wants to fight next to D'Harans: it sickens them to see such despicable flags on our side of the battlefield.
...

Translation 1) We'd rather expand our borders than to help you finish off a weakened realm that may very well destroy you now that Aurvandil has pledged them their support. 2) You are a neighboring realm, but who cares if Astrum shipped troops down D'Hara to fight Aurvandil, Falkirk is WAY too far away!  How could anyone expect us to fight a war over a distance lesser than most Dwilight wars could possibly be fought over!? 3) We'd rather you fight and die alone, because clearly it isn't worth getting as much help as possible to finish off a threat to your existance, and we value our own vendettas over your survival.

That letter was many days ago.

Still not convinced of my "translation"? How about...

...
To conclude, the reality of the situation is as follows:
Luria Nova cannot commit a large enough force because it has no motivation to do so.
While I have maintained the important of this campaign, my entire Military Council is completely against the idea.
My nobles want to stay home and take what holdings remain, while repairing those that desperately need the attention.
My nobles do not want to fight alongside D'Harans.
My nobles see no point to this war, beyond vague promises. If there was something there worth fighting for them—like the expansion of an Empire—coupled with time to regroup, recruit, and improve our military infrastructure, the second time round would be a huge success. Otherwise, Fissoa will have to make due with its own forces, or those from D'Hara, until such a time Luria Nova can march a significantly efficient and motivated force.
...

There, she said it in plainer words. Luria Nova won't help, because they don't want to. Who cares if Fissoa dies to Falkirk and Aurvandil? Starting another war with D'Hara is so much more fun.

But hey, go ahead and call me a liar all you like.

[Anaris]

What I said is, indeed, Alanna's point of view. But that doesn't mean that it's misrepresenting Luria's motives or views. It was a little incomplete, I'll admit.

Skyn brought up several different issues, and put forward some conditions for joining the Empire. Overall, they didn't sound too unreasonable to Alanna (or me), especially from the Fissoan perspective. It was the "we don't trust the name of Luria" thing that really got her, which is why she advised Alice that it was probably not wise at this time to try to bring them into the Empire. Not because we didn't like them, or because they wouldn't bow before us, or anything like that: They didn't want to be Lurian, and the Lurian Empire, even if it were to (somewhat absurdly, in Alanna's view) have a different name, would be fundamentally and unchangeably Lurian.

As for Chénier's drivel...yeah, Fissoa is smaller than Luria. With representative voting, that means they'd have fewer votes than LN in the hypothetical Imperial Council. Whodathunkit. What a shocker.

And...yeah, fighting a long-distance war is hard, both in terms of logistics and in terms of morale. It's not exactly a secret that Luria has been wanting to fight D'Hara since, well, forever. We were still discussing remaining military allies of Fissoa and sending a significant part of our armies to aid them against Falkirk. Until Skynarbau got insulting and rude.

And, finally, frankly, no, Luria doesn't care if Fissoa dies, at least not for Fissoa's sake. For most of our shared history, they have been a thorn in our side, and now they've got the same ruler they had before who was a major part of continuing the mutual distrust and hostility.

Why the hell should Luria care about them if he's just going to make snide jabs about "Alanna's influence" and plot against us even while negotiations about Fissoa joining the Empire are ongoing?

[Chenier]

As for Chénier's drivel...yeah, Fissoa is smaller than Luria. With representative voting, that means they'd have fewer votes than LN in the hypothetical Imperial Council. Whodathunkit. What a shocker.

But they should totally love the idea of having another realm decide everything for them, right, because you laid it out ahead of time and they'll still get to express their political incapacity with a futile vote?

And even if they'd join you, you wouldn't save them from Falkirk and Aurvandil.

I dunno, but if D'Hara came to Luria Nova and said "Hey, want to become a vassal of the Dragon Empire? It's totally cool, you'll totally be able to voice your opinion in the imperial council, but we won't have to listen to it. And you'd be forced to defend us if someone attacked, but we won't life a finger to save you if you need it.", then I doubt it would take very long at all before Alice wrote up another dumb letter about how D'Hara's being a provocateur again and being insulting and all you want. But it's totally cool if Luria Nova does it.

And if anyone points out the hypocrisy on the forums, they are just filthy liars. Right?

[Anaris]

But they should totally love the idea of having another realm decide everything for them, right, because you laid it out ahead of time and they'll still get to express their political incapacity with a futile vote?

First of all, that presupposes that Luria is all of one mind, and would always agree within itself on every matter that comes up for a vote. And, um...have you paid any attention to Lurian politics? Like, since its very beginning?

And furthermore, guess what? That wasn't a dealbreaker for them. They didn't reject our offer. They responded with reasonable conditions, one of which made us think hard, and we reconsidered the offer based on cultural grounds. If the discussion had ended there, everything would have remained completely amicable on both sides.

And even if they'd join you, you wouldn't save them from Falkirk and Aurvandil.

No...no, that's not true. Sorry. Just because you hate us doesn't make every bad thing you say about us true.

And if anyone points out the hypocrisy on the forums, they are just filthy liars. Right?

I'm...not even sure what that's meant to be about.

[Chenier]

No...no, that's not true. Sorry. Just because you hate us doesn't make every bad thing you say about us true.

Falkirk is a threat to Fissoa's survival, especially now that Aurvandil has crippled Barca and Terran, and Asylon is taking away any other threat it may have from the North. And yet, instead of stating how you'll blitz to finish Falkirk off while they are in their weakest state, Luria Nova just whines about how it doesn't like the war and will pull out. But hey, retaking these last two regions is much more pressing.

I'm...not even sure what that's meant to be about.

I'm going to comment once, to the above, in response to many other statements like it. And then I'm not going to comment on it again, and just give up on you. Do you have any idea how annoying it is to see someone repeatedly confirm the negative stereotypes that are attributed to them? Especially when you've tried to argue otherwise?

Literally nothing you just typed is true, and this is a common pattern. It's fine to set your character or your realm in opposition to someone or something else just for entertainment. It's okay to speculatively comment on IC events. It shouldn't be okay to repeatedly state things that are completely untethered from reality, in a way that blurs the line between what you—as a player—actually think and what you have your character do as a result. Especially when people are either providing evidence to the contrary, or are willing to patiently and honestly explain IC events. Some people like to talk about the game without !@#$ting up the forums and poisoning the atmosphere. Are you capable of at least trying? Because this kind of attitude infects other people and balkanizes an already small player base.

Take note, folks: if you want to "win" BattleMaster, the surest way is to just drive everyone away until you're the only one still playing.

[Anaris]

Falkirk is a threat to Fissoa's survival, especially now that Aurvandil has crippled Barca and Terran, and Asylon is taking away any other threat it may have from the North. And yet, instead of stating how you'll blitz to finish Falkirk off while they are in their weakest state, Luria Nova just whines about how it doesn't like the war and will pull out. But hey, retaking these last two regions is much more pressing.

Um...yeah, that's after we've decided not to have them in the Empire. You specifically said,

And even if they'd join you, you wouldn't save them from Falkirk and Aurvandil.

Even after we'd decided not to have them in the Empire, we were still talking about sending them military aid, until Skyndarbau decided to run off his mouth at Alice.

As for what Solari said...I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with in there. You are mean, paranoid, and prejudiced on the forums; you never admit you could be wrong; anyone who disagrees with your IC stances is obviously a bad person; and anyone who calls you out on it gets treated to snide sarcasm, but no actual addressing of the issues they raise.

[Velax]

Jesus, what is it about Dwilight threads that make them so toxic? There's more vitriol here than in the entire rest of the forums.

Please stop, now, everyone. If this continues I'll start deleting posts and locking threads.

[Tandaros]

Some people like to talk about the game without !@#$ting up the forums and poisoning the atmosphere. Are you capable of at least trying? Because this kind of attitude infects other people and balkanizes an already small player base.

Take note, folks: if you want to "win" BattleMaster, the surest way is to just drive everyone away until you're the only one still playing.

Balkanizing a player base... never heard of that before. +10 points for ingenious wording.

[Tandaros]

Jesus, what is it about Dwilight threads that make them so toxic? There's more vitriol here than in the entire rest of the forums.

Please stop, now, everyone. If this continues I'll start deleting posts and locking threads.

I agree. I feel like for every 1 gem of a post there's 10 flames. Maybe DWI players need to do some team-building exercises or something. I'm imagining Arundel and Chenier doing a trust fall...

[DamnTaffer]

I agree. I feel like for every 1 gem of a post there's 10 flames. Maybe DWI players need to do some team-building exercises or something. I'm imagining Arundel and Chenier doing a trust fall...

Tandaros confirmed for mindless beaurocrat

[Glaumring the Fox]

Jesus, what is it about Dwilight threads that make them so toxic? There's more vitriol here than in the entire rest of the forums.

Please stop, now, everyone. If this continues I'll start deleting posts and locking threads.

Hay guyz whats going on here? 

[Gustav Kuriga]

I think I've discovered it. Without Glaumring to act as a lightning rod, everyone in the dwilight forum starts going at it like starving rabid dogs. And I mean everyone, Solari I see you as the one starting this latest flamefest by basically attacking the person posting rather than the post, and Anaris you're not helping. Chenier's post regarding the fissoan reasoning wasn't all that bad, and apparently some people took it a bit personally.

[Glaumring the Fox]

I've noticed the same, as soon as I leave its like a vacuum. I've decided not to post anymore here as much and nothing I post will be about anything but joking around if I do. Im done fighting. Im just gonna play BM like I've always played and have fun. This forum is toxic. Which is sad because I enjoy reading stuff about other realms here. Thats it though, im just going to read it from now on. Bye my dudes!

[Anaris]

And I mean everyone, Solari I see you as the one starting this latest flamefest by basically attacking the person posting rather than the post, and Anaris you're not helping.

I'd like to try to address this in a general sense, if I may, without trying to bring in specific personalities or histories.

Assuming, Gustav, that there are one or more individuals on a forum who can be consistently shown to make counterfactual, biased, and sometimes downright insulting claims, who are not visibly punished by the mods for these actions, what solution would you propose?