The Demise of Fontan

[Draco Tanos]

Westmoor an ally? Please.  And the reason all those realms went to war with Sirion is because they wanted to fight in a war. Not because of some(most likely fabricated) excuse that Sirion was selling them out.

Sirion is neck and neck with Perdan population and food wise, produces the most gold, has the most nobles, is the most defensible, and probably has the largest mobile army and your telling me they AREN'T the strongest?

And just about any realm would have major defensive problems if a whole duchy seceded from their nation. But I suppose all realms die eventually. Fontan was the top dog at one point too.

"All those realms" were already fighting Fontan along side Sirion and OR.  Why, pray tell, would they "want a fight" when they were already in a war?  Especially when gaining lands would have been easier/more feasible when warring Fontan?

Is it possible the evidence was fabricated?  Yep.  Is it likely?  Well, from what I've heard, Sirion wasn't doing too hot at that point in the war.  Need to bug Merewyn about that time period again.

[Zakilevo]

Fontan was probably the most powerful realm in all of EC's history. They broke through Sirion's defence and looted the southern regions. Fontan's Lions (can't remember the full name) was a mobile meat grinder... If they had Sirion's geography, I don't know it would have been possible for other realms to bring them down like what they did.

But like a wise man said, whichever survives is the strongest.

[Draco Tanos]

Ibby/Aix certainly could have been the strongest if they didn't fall for Caligus's bait.  Or if Ibby abandoned the outer/eastern shores of the lake/inner sea and fortified the bottlenecks they had.  They'd have been smaller, but they would have certainly made Perdan and Caligus pay for every inch taken.

[Noldorin]

Neji does not intend to allow Gabriella anywhere near Nivemus, and the same goes for all of the Flow priests. Other than that, not much 'choosing' will be going on.

Well Turgon for sure will do all he can to hinder all those with connections to Aurvandil, in addition to the priests. He has plenty enough IG knowledge of the connections with that realm (from both Nivemus and from his brother in Thalmarkin) to trust any of those guys. Allowing the standard-nobles of Fontan will be nice, but I'll be damned if I let any of those Aurvandil-people into Nivemus.

[feyeleanor]

EDIT: It's also good to note that Fontan's fall really began when Krimml seceeded. That was a funny episode.

Fontan's fall really began when the MoD decided it was the government and was at liberty to create new realms without discussing the matter with the whole realm. The Civil War, the birth of Westmoor and the inability of successive governments to make peace with Sirion all hung on that single decision.

That's not to say something else wouldn't have lead to a similar outcome

[feyeleanor]

Fontan was probably the most powerful realm in all of EC's history. They broke through Sirion's defence and looted the southern regions. Fontan's Lions (can't remember the full name) was a mobile meat grinder... If they had Sirion's geography, I don't know it would have been possible for other realms to bring them down like what they did.

But like a wise man said, whichever survives is the strongest.

Half the Lions left the game as a result of the Ogren-Sulliven feud, taking with them much of Fontan's offensive punch. The Manticores who replaced them (and more recently the Eagle Regiment) preserved the core spirit but failed to inculcate it in newer generations giving them a diminished impact on successive battles.

Likewise the carefully-planned irregular warfare operations Moira ran seem to have fallen by the wayside when I left the game, and on returning I found nothing more than thrill-seeking night blades and quarrelsome, uncoordinated priests. If instead of using the flashy options they'd concentrated on economic warfare and peaceful mass conversions to undermine region control the long-term impact would have been much greater

[feyeleanor]

Well Turgon for sure will do all he can to hinder all those with connections to Aurvandil, in addition to the priests. He has plenty enough IG knowledge of the connections with that realm (from both Nivemus and from his brother in Thalmarkin) to trust any of those guys. Allowing the standard-nobles of Fontan will be nice, but I'll be damned if I let any of those Aurvandil-people into Nivemus.

Brigdha's probably going to try and salvage some good from the Flow so something of Fontan remains, but given what the Kinseys have done to its reputation I'm fairly resigned to failure.

[Noldorin]

Hm, if she will try that inside Sirion she had better be quite silent about it... Flow is not of high value in sirion (and neither for nivemus, where all (well, most at least...) of the leaders were in Sirion for a long long time)

[GoldPanda]

Brigdha's probably going to try and salvage some good from the Flow so something of Fontan remains, but given what the Kinseys have done to its reputation I'm fairly resigned to failure.

You're welcome. 

[feyeleanor]

I seem to specialise in salvaging the unsalvageable 

[Anaris]

To clarify:

Half (or more) of the Lions were Hungarians, who were personally loyal to Sulliven, always logged in around the same time as him, supported him in everything he did, and seemed to believe that he should be effectively Dictator-For-Life of Fontan. (Though bizarrely, they weren't alone in that last part.)

When Sulliven was reported to the Titans for threatening to report Ogren to the Titans, he was given a private warning. He was so furious about this (from what I recall at the time, he basically couldn't deal with the fact that anyone in power over him had dared to criticize him, but I may be applying bias retroactively), he left the game. The clique of Hungarians who followed him left at the same time.

[Indirik]

The clique of Hungarians who followed him left at the same time.

And by "at the same time" he means "within the space of a few minutes."

[Uzamaki]

"All those realms" were already fighting Fontan along side Sirion and OR.  Why, pray tell, would they "want a fight" when they were already in a war?  Especially when gaining lands would have been easier/more feasible when warring Fontan?

Is it possible the evidence was fabricated?  Yep.  Is it likely?  Well, from what I've heard, Sirion wasn't doing too hot at that point in the war.  Need to bug Merewyn about that time period again.

Fontan offered them a peace treaty that gave them Westmoor. They took the treaty. Then, once Westmoor was formed and situated, they sent their armies up to Sirion for war. Why because: 1. They wanted war and 2. there was that ridiculous 'if you aren't in a war, soldiers start bickering, regions affected  blah blah blah'. Sirion was losing the war(well, they had the war stalemated). So Perdan, Caligus, OI, and Westmoor picked the realm that already had a bunch of enemies so they didn't have to suffer the demoralization effect.

[Anaris]

Fontan offered them a peace treaty that gave them Westmoor. They took the treaty. Then, once Westmoor was formed and situated, they sent their armies up to Sirion for war.

I don't know much about the rest of your statement, but I know this part is wrong. Why? Because Westmoor was formed by secession from Perdan. I was there, I should know.

[Uzamaki]

I don't know much about the rest of your statement, but I know this part is wrong. Why? Because Westmoor was formed by secession from Perdan. I was there, I should know.

Oh was that it? I did feel kind of weird saying that. I was about to check the wiki to check my sources... Either way, they took some sort of peace treaty, dropped out, came back in because they didn't want the soldiers complaining thing to hurt them, so picked an easy target in Sirion.