A Matter Of Honour // This-Is-How-You-Declare-War.

[Perth]

as opposed to being very real and ever present in peoples daily lives in a quantifiable, provable way.

Which is exactly what religion is in the minds of Medieval people. At least as a worldview. No one in the Middle Ages thought of religion as being "merely" faith based or "unprovable." Quite the contrary, I would say.

Just in case you're in any doubt, France existed for a long time before Napoleon came around, and so did the French language. We're a hilarious mix of post revolution France, and pre Revolution Frace, as well as the Chivalry era of France. Which, encompasses nearly six hundred years of Frenchness, from the middle ages onwards.

Sure. I was just saying that it isn't far-fetched for someone to take Allomere's Napoloen "joke" seriously given the context of all the French stuff.

[Penchant]

We can hardly realistically be "SMA" about religion if we're copying medieval Europe, and it'd be !@#$ if we tried to.

SMA doesn't mean simulating Medieval European times, it means having your nobles act like nobles did in Medieval European times. For requirements on a religion being SMA by Tom is "not being obviously silly is the only real requirement I can think of."

Also I agree with Perth, they didn't just have faith in it, they thought it was a very real thing. The Pope actually hired someone to prove God's existence and he did though you probably wouldn't agree with his proof.

[Lanyon]

Well this is awkward... the whole duchy of Madina flip scenario

[Vellos]

Well this is awkward... the whole duchy of Madina flip scenario

Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and confess absolute shock and surprise. Wish I saw this one comin'.

[Lanyon]

I didn't even see that one coming and it was my liege lord that flipped it.

[Geronus]

Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and confess absolute shock and surprise. Wish I saw this one comin'.

It's actually not quite as dramatic as it sounds. First, apparently Madina city isn't actually *in* the Duchy of Madina anymore. Second, it wasn't that many nobles who made the switch. Aurvandil just lost Madina Gardens plus a few minor regions, but it doesn't look like much of a power shift to me. What it looks like is a big headache for Fissoa and possibly the Lurias, though it could well prove to be a blessing for the 'Moot if it prompts Aurvandil to withdraw.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

A silly change of allegiance really, over nothing as well. Well that's the last time I trust a former Madinian Grand Doge.

Damn lucky I took Madina City from his control a few days ago as well.

[egamma]

A silly change of allegiance really, over nothing as well. Well that's the last time I trust a former Madinian Grand Doge.

Damn lucky I took Madina City from his control a few days ago as well.

Report from Tarkus Graves   (14 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in "Verdis Elementum" (26 recipients)
Faithful,

The Commonwealth of Aurvandil has declared war on all religion.

They demand their nobility burn temples where they find them, dismantle shrines, and abandon their religion.

They have declared all religion evil, and claim that there are no gods.

They believe in nothing, and scorn all other beliefs.

They believe that there is enlightenment through atheism.

I cannot - and do not - support this farce any further.

I ask those who can message other religions, be they friend or foe, and inform them of this threat to our way of life.

Humbly,
Tarkus Graves of Grand Duchy of Fissoa
Maester of Fire of Verdis Elementum, Duke of Madina, Margrave of Madina Gardens

It appears you had it coming to you--first for appointing the former Grand Doge, and second for declaring war on religion.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

Declared war on religion? Not even close, we simply don't allow unauthorised religious buildings in Aurvandil, there is a world of difference.  Though a lot of people like to pretend otherwise despite the wealth of evidence to the contrary. Also, atheism? That's not very... SMA, and it's certainly not Aurvandil.

But appointing the former Grand Doge? Entirely, never believe in the honour or loyalty of a Madinian.

[Perth]

never believe in the honour or loyalty of a Madinian.

On that, the 'Moot and Aurvandil can find common ground.

[egamma]

Still, I don't think Auvrandil is winning the IC propaganda war.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

Still, I don't think Auvrandil is winning the IC propaganda war.

A war of words has only gotten the Moot beaten, and fast, the same happened to Madina, and the Moot is just recycling their old rubbish for propaganda.

[De-Legro]

Still, I don't think Auvrandil is winning the IC propaganda war.

Given the general OOC bias against them, do you think it is at all possible for them to win the IC war? There are precious few people able to properly separate IC and OOC. I've certainly had times of not being able to properly distance the two.

[NoblesseChevaleresque]

Given the general OOC bias against them, do you think it is at all possible for them to win the IC war? There are precious few people able to properly separate IC and OOC. I've certainly had times of not being able to properly distance the two.

For a while I was under the suspicion a punish the clanners war was in the works, as we saw happen to Fontan.

[Vellos]

Given the general OOC bias against them, do you think it is at all possible for them to win the IC war? There are precious few people able to properly separate IC and OOC. I've certainly had times of not being able to properly distance the two.

Yes, it is, and easily. They could rewrite this war and win public support easily, for example, by converting to Sanguis Astroism.

Or just by not being unilateralists with a cult of personality about their monarch.

Honestly, this war against Aurvandil isn't about clanning at all. It's about Aurvandil's being a schoolyard bully in a very IC way, and them very ICly being complete and utter failures at diplomacy. War they can do; diplomacy they cannot. They very well might win the war, in which case their ignorance of diplomacy might be vindicated. But yes, I think that they could win the propaganda war.