BattleMaster Community
BattleMaster => Locals => Dwilight => Topic started by: Allomere on June 29, 2012, 06:19:43 PM
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Roleplay Sent 28/06/2012.
The tepid jungles of the Madinian Rebel State had been a hideous endurance, a land nigh devoid of civilisation until the grace of monarchical rule had but lightly touched upon it. It seemed Allomere was destined to be deployed time and time again in untamed and savage regions beset with rogue flora and an uncultured populace. He was a long way indeed from the Imperial City with all its domestic order and urban refinement, and further still from the tranquil and almost paradisiac coastline of Zerujil. Here instead sprawled a wild and barbarous wood that deep within nestled a downright feral existence. Somewhere amid the chokingly moist and earthy claustrophobia of the canopy lay Rettleville, the capital of Barca. The soldiers of Aurvandil kept their hopeful eyes ahead for all signs of the expectant lumbercamp.
After trekking through the Rettlewood and its host of natural horrors for a day the sounds of a settlement met the Deathstalkers with welcome, though their eyes were fast to dispel the joy. Steeled again to endure rural nightmares the Knight Hausos and his company of child-archers made their way to the gatehouse of the city. The earth embankments and woodworks that formed the defensive curtain to the city seemed to blend with the forest that lay to all sides. Allomere studied the city on the approach, it seemed a tiered affair which raised upon a natural rocky outcrop. Neither the vast, clean and embellished metropolis of the Imperial City of Candiels, cleared with wide-sweeping vistas and promenades, centrepieced and utterly dominated by the Palais Haut-Souverain, nor the Port of Madina with its canals and trade houses and intrusive waterfront was like this. The difference in layout and conception was almost unsettling, nauseating. Through this Allomere pushed on, nonetheless intrigued as he scanned the city with a General’s eye.
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They advanced up the road toward the Senate House perched atop the rise at the far end of the city, lines of shabbily dressed Barcan commoners massed along the route as they observed and chattered in their forest tongues over the arrival of the Orvandeaux vanguard. If they wore leaves or were simply swathed in mud it would be hard to make distinction. To live in such woodland squalor was the height of depravity. Even the conscripted street children of The Imperial City formerly lived like nobility by comparison. Nonetheless they continued onward, led as they were by the escort of Barcan Sentries, for the guests came under a banner of diplomacy afforded for their passage.
With their arrival suitably announced, and with the assembled dignitaries and officials of BArca making attendance of their approach to the Senate, the Orvandeaux soldiers halted, formed in a column, with the Knight Hausos at their head. One hundred and fifty Sovereign’s Men there to represent the glory of the Commonwealth of Aurvandil. At their head Allomere stepped forward. His task was clear, and his message would be strong. He was to initiate, to take the fore, to lead from the front as all Generals should. It was what he was accustomed to, and most suited for.
Dressed in his battlefield attire, his finery was resplendent of the indulgence and the riches of the Commonwealth. His helm matched that of the Imperial breastplate he wore, of polished silver layered with white enamel and inscribed all over with decoration. Around his neck was fastened a white-gold Fleur Di Lis And Sword, and backed with the black backing of his gathered cloak it shone out distinctly as a mark of his rank. From his left shoulder hung a diamond-shaped epaulette that trailed almost down to his elbow on which the heraldry of the Kingdom and Commonwealth was embroidered. At his side his sword was sheathed, a scabbard of blue-black lacker and silver embellishments. The Knight Hausos was sworn to die in battle as an embodiment of the Chevalier, the Will of the High Sovereign, and the personification of the tenets of the Commonwealth. It would not do to make and inconspicuous showing of himself.
Removing his helmet, he began.
“I am Sir Allomere de' Striguile, Knight Hausos At Arms of Aurvandil, First Among Chevaliers, L'Amiral et le Seigneur de la Mer, Capitaine de l'Epée Du Roi, First Viscount Zerujil.
I cometh herein to this land at the behest of His Imperial August, The High Sovereign Mendicant Anhanger, Benevolent Majesty and Lord Protector of the Commonwealth of Aurvandil, Duke of The Imperial City, Margrave of Candiels, King of Madina, Conquérant des Pirates, Foremost Chevalier and Roi de l’Orvandeaux.
I am charged under the honour to be the bearer, instrument and deliverer of the terms of engagement of our imminent conflict. Time, opportunity and hospitality enough has been afforded to settle the matters pertaining to the lands of Celitberia, Kydonia and Gallaecia, and the Lords and Knights thereof who have sought refuge and allegiance under the banner of Lady Aurvandil, the protection of The High Sovereign, and safeguarding from the Tyrannical corruption of the Barcan dryad State, of which I presently address. Enduring slight and insult from your Ambassador in the Imperial City, and with all other avenues of negotiation, converse and reason thusly expended, it is my duty to initiate the Commonwealth’s response.”
At that, the Knight Hausos took a step to his front and drew forth his sword, the whitened blade sliding cleanly from its scabbard as the polished enamel caught the sun. He proceeded to sharpen the sword upon the Marble steps, marking the stonework with a series of repetitive gashes, an act of brazen and calculated provocation, symbolic of the three strikes of which no man of honour can take without response of the assault against his dignity. To the chevalier’s mind, it was far from merely symbolic but an actual and unequivocal discourtesy, derision and ridicule not against a single knight but against a whole realm and an entire people, an infraction upon the entirety of Barca in every regard. From this point on it was settled, there could be only War.
The Knight Hausos straightened and look to his fore, oblivious to the reaction of the Barcan’s present, solely focussed on enacting what must be done. He spoke up again, louder to overcome the stirrings.
“With slight and offence duly returned, we seek to take redress upon insistence, and I issue as First Among Chevaliers the challenge ; you are obliged to meet us in Arms on the Field of Honour, to do battle for the cause we maintain, and settle the contestant nature of your politics once and for all. I shall see it done that the High Sovereign’s Peace is brought to these lands, for where talk and words have failed, swords and the Esprit du Chevalier shall bring forth resounding resolution.”
“Our Terms of Engagement under the Code d’Chevalier.” The Knight Hausos gestured to an oversized and heavily gilded chest brought forth by a dozen of his men and placed at the foot of the Senate’s steps. As he spoke it was quickly unlocked and ceremoniously opened to display a scrollcase, lain upon a gold tiered lattice of jewel encrusted plates, white enamel and silver backing set against the reddened silk interior. “I will take correspondence as to their discussion, but we shall not suffer a reduction of our standards. You have a day.”
Allomere sheathed his sword as the men retreated back into line, and the whole body of soldiers reformed swiftly.
“May your actions favour your fortunes, and with distinction, dignity and fortitude ; Let The Duel commence.”
The Knight Hausos bowed slightly, raising his arm in salute after he did so, and in one cohesive movement he and The Deathstalkers, with their single duty fulfilled, turned about and made their withdrawal from the Barcan Capital. He would return soon enough, and on that occasion, it would be under a banner of War.
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Shouldn't this be in the Roleplay section?
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Or in the awesome section?
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This to me, is the perfect way to inform the battlemaster community that several realms may be about to disapear from the map.
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Shouldn't this be in the Roleplay section?
I believe he would like to discuss the matter of Barca's war though I think it would be great to have this copied to the roleplay section. I also think this could be a counter to the thread titled "this is how not to declare war" so he is saying he declared war in a very good way, which I must admit the roleplay to be great though I am not sure about if I agree with how he declared war.
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Or in the awesome section?
I'll grant that the roleplay was quite in-depth. Rather insulting to presume unlikely things upon another realm's city though: Wood and earth for a stronghold? Mud and leaves for a 16k population city? Right..
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I'll grant that the roleplay was quite in-depth. Rather insulting to presume unlikely things upon another realm's city though: Wood and earth for a stronghold? Mud and leaves for a 16k population city? Right..
He didn't say they were wearing mud and leaves for clothes, he just said that if they were, to an Aurvandilan's eyes we wouldn't notice the difference. The entire description was hyperbole to contrast the Barcan's to the insane level of opulence in Aurvandil civilisation.
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He didn't say they were wearing mud and leaves for clothes, he just said that if they were, to an Aurvandilan's eyes we wouldn't notice the difference. The entire description was hyperbole to contrast the Barcan's to the insane level of opulence in Aurvandil civilisation.
Hyperbole and misguided description are one and the same, no?
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He didn't say they were wearing mud and leaves for clothes, he just said that if they were, to an Aurvandilan's eyes we wouldn't notice the difference. The entire description was hyperbole to contrast the Barcan's to the insane level of opulence in Aurvandil civilisation.
So he didn't say they are wearing mud and leaves for clothes but thats what he feels like they are wearing, which is even more insulting.
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I'll grant that the roleplay was quite in-depth. Rather insulting to presume unlikely things upon another realm's city though: Wood and earth for a stronghold? Mud and leaves for a 16k population city? Right..
The Saxons used to do this constantly. I honestly found it to be extremely distasteful and obnoxious as a player, and it's one of the things I miss the least about dealing with them.
It's possible to write wonderful RPs without basically denigrating what other players have built for themselves. It's one thing to write as though the character thinks of Barca as a backward place. It's quite another to describe it as if it actually is that way. There's a clear distinction, and it's not hard to avoid doing.
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So he didn't say they are wearing mud and leaves for clothes but thats what he feels like they are wearing, which is even more insulting.
This is somewhat off the point that I was making: what he feels is his own business. But saying "this is how the city is, this is what the people are, this is how bad it is", when it is clearly contrasting with what it would in high probability be is just being plain spiteful. It's like describing some elses' character as being hideously disgusting, with many warts and a squint eye, along with lice-ridden hair and rags for clothing, even though they are a noble, and have never given any indication of the prior-mentioned afflictions. I suppose the polite euphemism to describe it would be "taking liberties".
It's one thing to write as though the character thinks of Barca as a backward place. It's quite another to describe it as if it actually is that way. There's a clear distinction, and it's not hard to avoid doing.
Indeed, exactly my point.
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Awwww did that nasty roleplay hurt your little feelings?
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So, getting rid of all the superfluous crap, Aurvandil tool three regions from Barca that didn't belong to them, and the Aurvandil response to Barca's failed negotiations is to...take more regions?
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Awwww did that nasty roleplay hurt your little feelings?
It's about courtesy. But we can see you have none by the post above.
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I think you are overplaying the perceived insult/rudeness of the description.
Most of the derogatory nature of the description was aimed at where they live, contrasting what Aurvandil would consider "squalid forests" to the "urban refinement" to Candiels, or the plains of Zerujil, which is what Allomere wrote. Aurvandil are very much urbanite's as opposed to rural peoples, and that is what Allomere was getting across, we like our civilisation to be in stone, to cut down the nature around us. He never especially directed any insults against the nobles, or the quality of the civilisation, only stated that due to its climate and environment, he believed it to be squalid in contrast to Aurvandil's stone metropolises.
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So, getting rid of all the superfluous crap, Aurvandil tool three regions from Barca that didn't belong to them, and the Aurvandil response to Barca's failed negotiations is to...take more regions?
We didn't take the regions, they were handed to us by the lords and Barca failed to make any meaningful progress in discussion to get the regions back, which Aurvandil was perfectly willing to do.
It's about courtesy. But we can see you have none by the post above.
I agree, to an extent.
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It's about courtesy. But we can see you have none by the post above.
+1
Uncalled for.
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So, getting rid of all the superfluous crap, Aurvandil tool three regions from Barca that didn't belong to them, and the Aurvandil response to Barca's failed negotiations is to...take more regions?
Barcan nobles chose to give us some regions, we just chose to not give them back
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Barcan nobles chose to give us some regions, we just chose to not give them back
Which could quite easily be seen as synonymous with "taking".
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It seemed Allomere was destined to be deployed time and time again in untamed and savage regions beset with rogue flora and an uncultured populace.
The earth embankments and woodworks that formed the defensive curtain to the city seemed to blend with the forest that lay to all sides.
To live in such woodland squalor was the height of depravity. Even the conscripted street children of The Imperial City formerly lived like nobility by comparison.
The bold portions are what I have a problem with. All the rest I consider mere hyperbole, as formerly suggested.
The peasants are uncultured? I can see that if they were rogue, and I could see them described as different or weird. But to say uncultured is tantamount to saying that the nobles over them are inept at culturing them.
Earth embankments and woodworks? Really? They have a level 4 or level 5 fortress in Rettleville don't they? Maybe as a palisade or motte and bailey could I see that description, but if it's a fortress, that's not even close to being an accurate description unless that wood is freaking petrified.
The nobles live in the woodland too. To say living in a woodland is depraved... Is quite insulting and uncalled for.
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The bold portions are what I have a problem with. All the rest I consider mere hyperbole, as formerly suggested.
The peasants are uncultured? I can see that if they were rogue, and I could see them described as different or weird. But to say uncultured is tantamount to saying that the nobles over them are inept at culturing them.
Earth embankments and woodworks? Really? They have a level 4 or level 5 fortress in Rettleville don't they? Maybe as a palisade or motte and bailey could I see that description, but if it's a fortress, that's not even close to being an accurate description unless that wood is freaking petrified.
The nobles live in the woodland too. To say living in a woodland is depraved... Is quite insulting and uncalled for.
Peasants uncultured? Well I won't try to defend that as not insulting, but the peasant culture in Barca would certainly be juxtaposed to Aurvandil's. But then, this is SMA and it wasn't uncommon for people to believe other peoples to be uncultured.
As for earth embankments and woodworks, well what is wrong with that? It would have to be an earthen embankment, to provide proper foundation since Rettleville is on top of a crag or whatever, as we can see on the Rettleville picture, as for wood works, well they live in a forest, and are you really saying they would have no woodworks whatsoever? Nor is it impossible for them to have incredibly high quality and intricate fortifications that partially consist of wooden sections. In a place like Rettleville, with only one approach, you wouldn't even need to have complete stone fortifications, and wooden sections would make more sense.
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One could reasonably object to having their region described to them in an unflattering or even inaccurate ways. Then again, that's why we have a region description feature. Why not use it?
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One could reasonably object to having their region described to them in an unflattering or even inaccurate ways. Then again, that's why we have a region description feature. Why not use it?
This.
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Peasants uncultured? Well I won't try to defend that as not insulting, but the peasant culture in Barca would certainly be juxtaposed to Aurvandil's. But then, this is SMA and it wasn't uncommon for people to believe other peoples to be uncultured.
As for earth embankments and woodworks, well what is wrong with that? It would have to be an earthen embankment, to provide proper foundation since Rettleville is on top of a crag or whatever, as we can see on the Rettleville picture, as for wood works, well they live in a forest, and are you really saying they would have no woodworks whatsoever? Nor is it impossible for them to have incredibly high quality and intricate fortifications that partially consist of wooden sections. In a place like Rettleville, with only one approach, you wouldn't even need to have complete stone fortifications, and wooden sections would make more sense.
Technically peasants are always uncultured, but I assumed he meant uncultured compared to other peasants.
Earth and wood was a by gone age... This is a game mirroring the time of the Middle Ages. Earth and wood as a fortress would not have lasted long. No doubt they have wooden buildings, but I doubt a fortress, as described by the game, would be wood and earth. Also, they can always import stone.
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One could reasonably object to having their region described to them in an unflattering or even inaccurate ways. Then again, that's why we have a region description feature. Why not use it?
True, he can describe it in unflattering and inaccurate ways. But to truly see it in some of the ways as described, as his character truly does, that is just wrong in my opinion.
And I agree, it should be a more used option, which is why I try to make region descriptions of most of the regions I Lord over.
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Technically peasants are always uncultured, but I assumed he meant uncultured compared to other peasants.
Earth and wood was a by gone age... This is a game mirroring the time of the Middle Ages. Earth and wood as a fortress would not have lasted long. No doubt they have wooden buildings, but I doubt a fortress, as described by the game, would be wood and earth. Also, they can always import stone.
Earthen embankments were still in use, as cravats I think, where you pile up earth on both sides of the wall, which strengthen the walls, which was well used for stone walls. Besides which, using earth embankments were still common simply because it makes it harder to siege a fortification if you have to scale an embankment, or to traverse a series of Dikes supported by Embankments. You seem to think that simply saying that Barca uses earth, or wood, as apart of their fortifications is insulting, which it isn't.
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Technically peasants are always uncultured, but I assumed he meant uncultured compared to other peasants.
Earth and wood was a by gone age... This is a game mirroring the time of the Middle Ages. Earth and wood as a fortress would not have lasted long. No doubt they have wooden buildings, but I doubt a fortress, as described by the game, would be wood and earth. Also, they can always import stone.
Importing stone is also very expensive so its not illogical to imagine that in an area surrounded by trees there would be a large ammount of wood used in ALL construction be it fortress or outhouse.
Also, why is the politeness of a war declaration roleplay which suggests the ENEMY is lesser than its authors such a matter of contention. It is almost certainly a propaganda roleplay.
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True, he can describe it in unflattering and inaccurate ways. But to truly see it in some of the ways as described, as his character truly does, that is just wrong in my opinion.
Which is why I was suggesting that Mendicant should have utilized the description available. ;)
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Earthen embankments were still in use, as cravats I think, where you pile up earth on both sides of the wall, which strengthen the walls, which was well used for stone walls. Besides which, using earth embankments were still common simply because it makes it harder to siege a fortification if you have to scale an embankment, or to traverse a series of Dikes supported by Embankments. You seem to think that simply saying that Barca uses earth, or wood, as apart of their fortifications is insulting, which it isn't.
I don't think we are going to agree on this even though we both have good descriptions on what we see in the matter. You see one thing, I see another. We should agree to disagree.
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Actually, the picture of Rettleville on the Wiki quite clearly shows stone is the main material used in the walls and other fortifications.
Amusingly, the people are also described as displaying "some trappings of civilization but also a tinge of savage passion for the environment as one would expect from those who not only live within nature but are at one with the spirits of the woods."
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My god you guys are so sensitive. Anytime anyone does anything Outside of your tight little roleplay scripts its freak out time. Asylon is a complete medieval !@#$ hole, an Aucandiilian would vomit their guts out if they hung around us for 5 minutes.
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Technically peasants are always uncultured, but I assumed he meant uncultured compared to other peasants.
Earth and wood was a by gone age... This is a game mirroring the time of the Middle Ages. Earth and wood as a fortress would not have lasted long. No doubt they have wooden buildings, but I doubt a fortress, as described by the game, would be wood and earth. Also, they can always import stone.
Why not simply leave it alone and let them define these things for themselves? That's my point. Even if they haven't thought about what Rettleville looked like before this, and you can't be sure they haven't, you've now boxed them in no matter how well-reasoned your description is.
My advice is to try to avoid describing in detail things that don't belong to you, the player. Your character, your units, your realm, your regions - all yours to describe. Other people's? Well, as someone else said, that's taking liberties at best. It's rude and disrespectful at worst. The best roleplaying is done as a collaboration. If you would like to know what Rettleville looks like to incorporate it into your RP, then ask the local lord to send you a description (or use the descriptions IG or on the Wiki if available), then use *that* and comment on how backward it seems to your character. It's the considerate thing to do.
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Importing stone is also very expensive so its not illogical to imagine that in an area surrounded by trees there would be a large ammount of wood used in ALL construction be it fortress or outhouse.
Also, why is the politeness of a war declaration roleplay which suggests the ENEMY is lesser than its authors such a matter of contention. It is almost certainly a propaganda roleplay.
And fortresses are also very expensive. Nobles pay good money to buy them. And doesn't it say something about you 'signing the last block' when you make fortifications? If it is in blocks, it is highly likely stone.
Propaganda is words. But, unless he is hallucinating, sights can only be changed to a degree, even if you are looking at them with biased eyes.
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Importing stone is also very expensive so its not illogical to imagine that in an area surrounded by trees there would be a large ammount of wood used in ALL construction be it fortress or outhouse.
Also, why is the politeness of a war declaration roleplay which suggests the ENEMY is lesser than its authors such a matter of contention. It is almost certainly a propaganda roleplay.
Well, they live in a forest that stretches for thousands of miles in in-game distance, it'll be very hard for them to import stone, if they don't have their own quarries, which Barca may well have and would well be in within reason for them to have. Though, it stands to reason Barca would use wood simply because it's cheap, easy, fast and quick to repair, can stockpile large amounts of it, and you can construct wooden walls or ramparts in a matter of hours. For sections of Rettleville that cannot be approached except for climbing (If the drawing on their wiki page is to be believed) then it wouldn't make sense of them to shell out a vast amount of time, effort and gold to cover it in the same standard of stone fortification when it would be just as easily, if not better defended by wood.
The roleplay never exactly said anything overly offensive or insulting, or at least Barca so far never made a fuss about it, corrected Aurvandil on any inaccuracies.
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Why not simply leave it alone and let them define these things for themselves? That's my point. Even if they haven't thought about what Rettleville looked like before this, and you can't be sure they haven't, you've now boxed them in no matter how well-reasoned your description is.
My advice is to try to avoid describing in detail things that don't belong to you, the player. Your character, your units, your realm, your regions - all yours to describe. Other people's? Well, as someone else said, that's taking liberties at best. It's rude and disrespectful at worst. The best roleplaying is done as a collaboration. If you would like to know what Rettleville looks like to incorporate it into your RP, then ask the local lord to send you a description (or use the descriptions IG or on the Wiki if available), then use *that* and comment on how backward it seems to your character. It's the considerate thing to do.
Erm, excuse me if I am blind to something, but why was I quoted?
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Erm, excuse me if I am blind to something, but why was I quoted?
Misquote, sorry.
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Which is why I was suggesting that Mendicant should have utilized the description available. ;)
That would imply it was my roleplay, when it wasn't. Allomere wrote it on his own.
My god you guys are so sensitive. Anytime anyone does anything Outside of your tight little roleplay scripts its freak out time. Asylon is a complete medieval !@#$ hole, an Aucandiilian would vomit their guts out if they hung around us for 5 minutes.
I agree that it is being over sensitive. Some are calling it insulting, or derogatory to say they use wood or earth in their fortifications. Or to otherwise refer to the peasants as uncivilised, which was a fairly common occurrence for the time.
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I agree that it is being over sensitive. Some are calling it insulting, or derogatory to say they use wood or earth in their fortifications. Or to otherwise refer to the peasants as uncivilised, which was a fairly common occurrence for the time.
I am just saying how I viewed it. It's not derogatory to assume they used some earth and wood, but if they only used earth and wood, it probably would not be a level 5 fortress. And I explained the uncivilized quote. Yes, they are uncivilized, but I assume they are uncivilized compared to Aurvandil peasants, not compared to nobles. If I'm wrong, the Roleplayer can drop me a line and say that was not his intention. Until then, that's the way I view that.
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I am just saying how I viewed it. It's not derogatory to assume they used some earth and wood, but if they only used earth and wood, it probably would not be a level 5 fortress. And I explained the uncivilized quote. Yes, they are uncivilized, but I assume they are uncivilized compared to Aurvandil peasants, not compared to nobles. If I'm wrong, the Roleplayer can drop me a line and say that was not his intention. Until then, that's the way I view that.
I shall have to check the Rettleville description just to see what it actually says, if anything about the fortifications.
But Allomere doesn't directly state all of it is earth and wood, he says the curtain around it is, but then goes on to say it is a tiered affair, it isn't so unbelievable to say that the crag/whatever it is, has a series of wooden palisades, ramparts supported by embankments to surround the base of it, with the proper fortifications actually being on top of the incline. Either way, I will check the description now.
Edit: I can find no description of the Barcan fortifications anywhere. Unless you count the drawing on the wiki.
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And fortresses are also very expensive. Nobles pay good money to buy them. And doesn't it say something about you 'signing the last block' when you make fortifications? If it is in blocks, it is highly likely stone.
Propaganda is words. But, unless he is hallucinating, sights can only be changed to a degree, even if you are looking at them with biased eyes.
Fortresses are very expensive... because they are huge not because of there construction material making an entire fortress out of stone in a forrest is illogical and even more expensive than building a fortress would normally be because not only do you have to transport the stone, you have to transport the stone through a forrest. Signing the last block is flavour text and has about as much value as the "hack the router" option for infiltrators.
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Fortresses are very expensive... because they are huge not because of there construction material making an entire fortress out of stone in a forrest is illogical and even more expensive than building a fortress would normally be because not only do you have to transport the stone, you have to transport the stone through a forrest. Signing the last block is flavour text and has about as much value as the "hack the router" option for infiltrators.
Well, blocks can just be a generic terminology for assembly pieces, from which it could just as easily be wood, as stone.
But I would it isn't entirely illogical to build a stone fortification in a forest, it is what Mendicant would do, what greater display of power and wealth than through an engineering and logistical feat than that? Mendicant though, is always about trying to show of the majesty of his civilisation, and building a ridiculously humongous stone fortification in the middle of a dense forest would be one way.
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I'm just OOCly very curious about what happened with the negotiations.
Literally not a single message from any negotiation has ever made its way to Hireshmont. Which is very frustrating for an OCD diplomat like him.
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I'm just OOCly very curious about what happened with the negotiations.
Literally not a single message from any negotiation has ever made its way to Hireshmont. Which is very frustrating for an OCD diplomat like him.
I guess Hireshmont wasn't relevant enough?
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I guess Hireshmont wasn't relevant enough?
Or the Barcans are exactly what we've always known them to be: horribly incompetent at diplomacy.
Or no negotiations actually took place, and you got one message from Julius and didn't give him a response.
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Or the Barcans are exactly what we've always known them to be: horribly incompetent at diplomacy.
Or no negotiations actually took place, and you got one message from Julius and didn't give him a response.
Well they did prevent Brom from taking the aegis to the zuma for about a month...
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The earth embankments and woodworks that formed the defensive curtain to the city seemed to blend with the forest that lay to all sides.
To live in such woodland squalor was the height of depravity. Even the conscripted street children of The Imperial City formerly lived like nobility by comparison.
“The nobles live in the woodland too. To say living in a woodland is depraved... Is quite insulting and uncalled for.”
Oh be serious. It’s meant to show the derision Allomere holds for woodlands and jungles, the kind he’s had to deal with in Madina and now with Barca trekking through 2 days of forest, and therein regardless of how offensive you may perceive it to be it is Allomere’s perception, not yours, which matters. If my character thinks its depraved then he thinks it is, it’s a private thought. Even if it was a public comment he spoke, OOC you still have no business contesting it under objections to “rudeness” and “offense”. That’s sort of the point of roleplay, displaying things you can’t say out loud to give angles and dimensions to characters and events. You really can't be OOC offended about an indirect IC event.
“But to truly see it in some of the ways as described, as his character truly does, that is just wrong in my opinion.”
Nice, but he’s a snob. That’s his view, so as far as IC is concerned it can’t be “wrong".
Actually yes, I did use the wiki page when consulting the layout of the city, hence I said it was tiered as it shown to be. But Rettleville was only conquered a short time before Aurvandil and I know the fortifications were only level two when I first saw them so I assume they were rebuilt from nothing. Unless you’re saying the walls fell down and were rebuilt identically as the picture it’s a moot point since what is shown is technically a former fortification. Semblance seems more convincing than absolutes, it's meant to convey the idea of the city than say "Forever this is what it shall be!"
"Earth and wood was a by gone age... This is a game mirroring the time of the Middle Ages. Earth and wood as a fortress would not have lasted long. No doubt they have wooden buildings, but I doubt a fortress, as described by the game, would be wood and earth. Also, they can always import stone."
Incorrect, seriously incorrect. Wood and Earth a by-gone in the Medieval times? BM has to be between the years 1000-1300, early and mid medieval. Plenty of wooden castles, extensive wooden castles as well. Some of the South Downs Hill Forts in Southern England are 2500 years old and they were made from banked earth and wood. By-gone? Not by a long shot. They last. Castles are not just identical stone monoliths. Even more to the point this is a walled city, and the vast vast vast majority of cities with defences had wooden walls during this period, or outer wooden palisades with stoneworks inside. The idea you could just erect 50foot high stone block walls around every settlement is entirely unrealistic, it didn’t happen. Neither the resources nor the wealth do to it.
History and fact aside, the definition of walls and fortifications really are a transient matter. Did at any point I actually say the walls themselves were made of wood? I said to the effect that there was a wood palisade curtain around the city at the forest’s edge and earthworks, either remnants of old former fortifications or exactly the kind of defences which surrounded even walled castles when in forests. I don’t know if any of you have ever visited a real actual castle or know much about various examples or the evidence we have of those that were, but you don’t just have a forest, then a bit of open ground, then castle walls. Palisades ring plenty of castles as livestock buffers, cheap outer defences, and just as a general cordon to define where the woodland is to be held back from the castle. Then you have the proper walls afterwards.
Peckforton Castle, Beeston Castle, Raby Castle, Nottingham Castle, I could keep naming examples.
So yes, if you were entering a castle compound within a wooden enclosure the palisade if it existed, would be all around you and enclosing the castle as an outer barrier. Rettleville may or may not be like that. Historical accuracy suggests it would be and nothing actually in the description nor the wiki says otherwise. Maybe Allomere was only imagining it or mistook the treeline to be palisade defenses. It really doesn’t matter either way. You might note I tried very little to describe the innards of the city since to that extent I can only be generic and speculate so I made a point of leaving it grey. The fact I said it was on a rocky outcrop as shown pretty much guarantees it has stone walls when it comes to the actual city boundary.
I took the liberty of assuming the Senate had marble steps which considering Barca’s Carthaginian-esque culture seems very likely. I can only prostrate myself for forgiveness if they are actually granite.
And it’s a Level 4 Stronghold, and for a city that can mean annnyyything. If a Fortress is all stone then a Stronghold is somewhere between a mostly wood Fort and a Fortress. Otherwise Citadel’s must simply be mountains of fantasy-style Minas Tirith’s.
“Amusingly, the people are also described as displaying "some trappings of civilization but also a tinge of savage passion for the environment as one would expect from those who not only live within nature but are at one with the spirits of the woods."”
Yes thank you for that, that’s why I tried to hint at a bit of ruralism and had Allomere respond with the kind of snobbishness he did. As I said, he didn’t know if the peasants wore leaves or simply covered themselves in mud. He didn’t care to look at them to see either way he just made a judgement. Civilisation is something you observe and judge for yourself, and it is making clear that Aurvandil has a sort of xenophobic contempt for almost any other culture. Every Barcan peasant could be laced in gold and Allomere could go Inca and say "Gold? How worthless. They might as well wear mud" Nothing would be good enough.
As usual the pedantic will have their way anyway. I dare not roleplay entering through a gate next time, else the lord might confront me and say “We don’t have gates! We have Arches!” "Our peasants aren't free to line the streets, they're all in cages!" If you play that game no one wins. Probably why BM has no roleplay. You enjoy your bland and sensitive roleplays, if you even do them, and I’ll continue to embellish mine as reasonably as I can for the point of doing them ; flavour and entertainment.
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I believe he would like to discuss the matter of Barca's war though I think it would be great to have this copied to the roleplay section. I also think this could be a counter to the thread titled "this is how not to declare war" so he is saying he declared war in a very good way, which I must admit the roleplay to be great though I am not sure about if I agree with how he declared war.
That was much the idea ;)
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Here here Allomere! I support you. This argument is pathetic. You guys cant be serious. They are doing the same thing to you guys that they do to me. Gang up and circle like sharks because we make BM good and they are jealous of who we are and how we play. They cant beat us IG so they try any way to tear us down into mediocrity. I say no way!!!!
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My god you guys are so sensitive. Anytime anyone does anything Outside of your tight little roleplay scripts its freak out time. Asylon is a complete medieval !@#$ hole, an Aucandiilian would vomit their guts out if they hung around us for 5 minutes.
You mean... like how you rage and piss and moan when realms gang up on you because you did absolutely everything possible to gain the dislike of everyone? My god, they're declaring war because you insulted them and proved yourself to be the most unreliable ruler in Dwilight. The audacity!
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No Halleria you proved yourself to be the most unreliable noble in Dwilight. My rule when its done will be recognized as sublime and strange, you are a footnote, I am a king. You are just a traitor, I am a man who leads gods into war against all odds.
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Personally I thought the RP was pretty awesome! I get that some people are annoyed the depiction of their city, but I thought it was pretty clear from the way the rp was phrased that the whole thing wasn't supposed to be an objective description of the city but rather an insight into how it seems from an Aurvandilian perspective. I mean for example "uncivilized" is not an objective word, it's entirely based on the cultural expectations of the one who is saying it, so I think it's saying a lot more about Allomere than it is about Barca.
In any case obviously in future I think it's clear that people want more care taken when describing their cities, and at the end of the day there's no point in causing unecassery controversy by persisting in things other players find offensive. However I do hope this doesn't discourage people like Allomere from posting rps- it was a very enjoyable rp to read and gives those of us not in Aurvandil an insight into their motivations (other than "they are evil Saxons" which ofc is what my character believes IG)
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I took the liberty of assuming the Senate had marble steps which considering Barca’s Carthaginian-esque culture seems very likely. I can only prostrate myself for forgiveness if they are actually granite.
This really made me laugh out loud (in a good way).
“Amusingly, the people are also described as displaying "some trappings of civilization but also a tinge of savage passion for the environment as one would expect from those who not only live within nature but are at one with the spirits of the woods."”
Was this quote from the region description by Arden Fury? It sounds so familiar. I can't check. If so, that would be mine. First time ever my description was quoted if so. It was during Ordenstaat's time and that was how I pictured Ordenstaat living in the forest - loosely based on elves' affinity for the forest. That beautiful picture of Rettleville was done by the player of Milmice.
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Some people here think they own BM.
I thought his Rp was beautiful. His writing very interesting. Bravo.
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Well, the Rp is wonderful, but a bit 'offensive'... although, they are a bunch of Saxons! You really expect from them, to be pleasant people? 8)
I better have an 'biased' Rp, than have no Rp. ;D
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Offensive? Its a game...
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It was Offensive!... in a 'in-game' meaning, of course!
They can be stupid peasants, but they are MY stupid peasants! ;D
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Agreed! ;D
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This really made me laugh out loud (in a good way).
Was this quote from the region description by Arden Fury? It sounds so familiar. I can't check. If so, that would be mine. First time ever my description was quoted if so. It was during Ordenstaat's time and that was how I pictured Ordenstaat living in the forest - loosely based on elves' affinity for the forest. That beautiful picture of Rettleville was done by the player of Milmice.
It's from the region description on the Wiki.
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It's from the region description on the Wiki.
Ah, yes - in reading the whole description I remember now. Not sure if the original region description IG is still there but I copied it to the wiki 3 years ago. I only made one entry on Rettleville on the Wiki and this was it:
19:25, 25 March 2009 Fury (Talk | contribs) . . (+739) . . (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/index.php?title=Rettleville&oldid=120721)
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The description on the wiki indeed dates back to the time Ordenstaat ruled over the city of Rettleville.
But about the role-play of Allomere. I applaud his writing style and his efforts to write a role-play before declaring war, however many details about how my city should look like or how my peasants are dressed and whatever are imposed on me. And I am not the one to write a role-play back to correct everything mentioned in the role-play and make it look like Allomere was drunk or on drugs when he said it. Besides that, I can hardly confront Allomere as my character would have little in-game knowledge about what has been said by Allomere before he entered the city, because most likely Julius was sitting on his ass in his ducal palace during that time.
That I haven't wrote a region description myself is because I have just been appointed as Governor of Rettleville. That doesn't mean that I haven't thought about it, and I certainly have a Carthaginian-esque culture in mind.
What I do, just ignore the role-play and write my own description when I have time for it.
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The description on the wiki indeed dates back to the time Ordenstaat ruled over the city of Rettleville.
But about the role-play of Allomere. I applaud his writing style and his efforts to write a role-play before declaring war, however many details about how my city should look like or how my peasants are dressed and whatever are imposed on me. And I am not the one to write a role-play back to correct everything mentioned in the role-play and make it look like Allomere was drunk or on drugs when he said it. Besides that, I can hardly confront Allomere as my character would have little in-game knowledge about what has been said by Allomere before he entered the city, because most likely Julius was sitting on his ass in his ducal palace during that time.
That I haven't wrote a region description myself is because I have just been appointed as Governor of Rettleville. That doesn't mean that I haven't thought about it, and I certainly have a Carthaginian-esque culture in mind.
What I do, just ignore the role-play and write my own description when I have time for it.
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Serious_Medieval_Atmosphere (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/Serious_Medieval_Atmosphere)
http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/RP_Primer#Do.27s_and_Don.27ts (http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/RP_Primer#Do.27s_and_Don.27ts)
Don't RP other peoples' characters for them. This is a form of "powerplaying" and happens when, for example, you RP something with a serious effect on another character without their permission.
If you want, you can bring a Magistrate case against Allomere. Otherwise, stop complaining about it.
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If you want, you can bring a Magistrate case against Allomere. Otherwise, stop complaining about it.
For what its worth, I think that was Galvez' first comment.
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Then direct it at whoever raised the complaint first.
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The description on the wiki indeed dates back to the time Ordenstaat ruled over the city of Rettleville.
But about the role-play of Allomere. I applaud his writing style and his efforts to write a role-play before declaring war, however many details about how my city should look like or how my peasants are dressed and whatever are imposed on me. And I am not the one to write a role-play back to correct everything mentioned in the role-play and make it look like Allomere was drunk or on drugs when he said it. Besides that, I can hardly confront Allomere as my character would have little in-game knowledge about what has been said by Allomere before he entered the city, because most likely Julius was sitting on his ass in his ducal palace during that time.
That I haven't wrote a region description myself is because I have just been appointed as Governor of Rettleville. That doesn't mean that I haven't thought about it, and I certainly have a Carthaginian-esque culture in mind.
What I do, just ignore the role-play and write my own description when I have time for it.
Don't worry soon you wont have a city or peasants to be offended about :)
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So, getting rid of all the superfluous crap, Aurvandil tool three regions from Barca that didn't belong to them, and the Aurvandil response to Barca's failed negotiations is to...take more regions?
Because our Ambassador insulted them apparently, after they've done nothing but insult Barcan leadership, Barca as a whole, Barca's choice in Government, and the Veinsormoot. Up until this point, we'd been nothing but friendly.
*shrug*
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So guys...how about that battle? 3000 men is a little excessive lol. The poor moot got roflstomped.
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So guys...how about that battle? 3000 men is a little excessive lol. The poor moot got roflstomped.
Yes indeed. Half the 'Moot's troops were defensive, half were aggressive--so half our forces charged forward, and Aurvandil got to eat us in bite-sized pieces, which made it even worse.
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Yea i saw that in the AAR. That's unfortunate for yall.
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Yeah... didn't help that we had an archer-heavy force on a windy day, Barca's military leadership is in disarray (general paused or something), and Aurvandil had 60 banners.
Not terribly shocking. We'll just have to get better next time.
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So, did the poop I took in Mendicant's bed have anything to do with this war? Oh, I hope so.
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D'Hara & Terran: We will help you by attacking Aurvandil
Barca: Thanks, but we don't need your help. We almost have peace.
D'Hara & Terran: Well, thats too bad, we're gonna do it anyway. We need the food from the regions that you lost.
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Well, now they should have a whole lot of dead horses to eat around the 'Moot realms!
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Yeah... didn't help that we had an archer-heavy force on a windy day, Barca's military leadership is in disarray (general paused or something), and Aurvandil had 60 banners.
Not terribly shocking. We'll just have to get better next time.
That relies heavily upon the assumption that Aurvandil will let you rally a joint army again, which is rather contraindicated by our usual quick and decisive military strategy of going for the jugular right of the bat, and since Barca rallied to fight us whilst in peace talks, we aren't inclined to be merciful this time around.
D'Hara & Terran: We will help you by attacking Aurvandil
Barca: Thanks, but we don't need your help. We almost have peace.
D'Hara & Terran: Well, thats too bad, we're gonna do it anyway. We need the food from the regions that you lost.
Which is amusing because all D'Hara had to do was ask for trade, as they did in the past many times and we could have sold them thousands of bushels in a week, even during the war with Barca we would have sold them food if they asked. Now the Veinsormoot will find a lot more on the line for them than just food.
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D'Hara & Terran: We will help you by attacking Aurvandil
Barca: Thanks, but we don't need your help. We almost have peace.
D'Hara & Terran: Well, thats too bad, we're gonna do it anyway. We need the food from the regions that you lost.
Correction:
D'Hara and Terran: Repeated reasonable queries about war, its possibility, etc
Barca: Yes, rally your armies.
D'Hara and Terran: Okay. We'll commit to this if you need us to.
Barca: Cool deal bro.
(two weeks later)
D'Hara and Terran: Okay, we're ready for war.
Barca: Oh sorry lol jk. We were just !@#$ing with you.
D'Hara and Terran: Oh, so you horribly botched your foreign affairs and managed to be a cluster!@#$? Again?
Barca: Well sure if you wanna attack Aurvandil we'll support you.
D'Hara and Terran: Yeah, we're kinda starving here.
Barca: Oh by the way we're going to have the wrong marshal settings, our general abandon us, and our nobles marching in the wrong direction. Is that okay?
D'Hara and Terran: ....
(possible future)
Terran: Wanna kill Barca?
D'Hara: Hell to the yes.
:P
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I think we have already done a pretty good job of killing barca so far. Y'all sure you don't wanna just be friends :P .
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Correction:
D'Hara and Terran: Repeated reasonable queries about war, its possibility, etc
Barca: Yes, rally your armies.
D'Hara and Terran: Okay. We'll commit to this if you need us to.
Barca: Cool deal bro.
(two weeks later)*
*With a new Suffete.
D'Hara and Terran: Okay, we're ready for war.
Barca: Oh sorry lol jk. We were just !@#$ing with you.
D'Hara and Terran: Oh, so you horribly botched your foreign affairs and managed to be a cluster!@#$? Again?
Barca: *Well sure if you wanna attack Aurvandil we'll support you.
*Barca gives long list of reasons why it would be bad for Barca if Terran and D'Hara attack Aurvandil, and the "allies" go ahead with it anyway. So much for trusting to better judgement.
D'Hara and Terran: Yeah, we're kinda starving here.
Barca: Oh by the way we're going to have the wrong marshal settings, our general abandon us, and our nobles marching in the wrong direction. Is that okay?
D'Hara and Terran: ....
I added in the ommitted parts.
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Oooooo, my turn!
Barca: Why won't you give us back our regions?
Aurvandil: Because your walls are made of sticks and dirt and your peasants dress in leaves!
Barca: Awww, but...we really want them back...
Aurvandil: No.
Barca: Please?
Aurvandil: Hmm...no. And now we attack you for daring to ask.
Terran and D'Hara: Let's beat up Aurvandil!
Allison: Give me your armies and I shall crush Aurvandil!
Terran and D'Hara: Sure, that sounds goo...wait, aren't you the crazy bitch that declared war on us a month ago? What the hell are you even doing here?
Allison: Erm...well...GIVE ME YOUR ARMIES!
Terran and D'Hara: No, we can do just fine thanks. *immediately get crushed by Aurvandil*
Terran and D'Hara: Even though we were hugely outnumbered, this is all your fault, Barca!
*elsewhere in Dwilight*
Glaumring: I will crush you all! Stop picking on me! Feel my wrath! Stop being mean, guys...
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Allison: Give me your armies and I shall crush Aurvandil!
Terran and D'Hara: Sure, that sounds goo...wait, aren't you the crazy bitch that declared war on us a month ago? What the hell are you even doing here?
Allison: Erm...well...GIVE ME YOUR ARMIES!
Terran and D'Hara: No, we can do just fine thanks. *immediately get crushed by Aurvandil*
Too funny. Even more so since Allison might get elected as Magistrate of War for Terran!
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To be fair, no one in the 'Moot actually thought we were going to win that battle, lol.
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Barca: Thanks, but we don't need your help. We almost have peace.
If by "peace" you mean Aurvandil stole three regions from you, you did nothing to get them back except somehow manage to provoke an attack from Aurvandil, completely roll over and watch your balls fall off, and then beg Aurvandil to let you live. Okay.
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If by "peace" you mean Aurvandil stole three regions from you,
It was the stupid nobles that took them. And no one is denying that they were seeking a casus belli, but it was never one of total destruction.
you did nothing to get them back except somehow manage to provoke an attack from Aurvandil,
All down to the choice of diplomat.
completely roll over and watch your balls fall off,
Oh, you mean having our capital invaded by 26k combat strength? Yeah, that was totally rolling over...
and then beg Aurvandil to let you live. Okay.
According to IC interactions, there was never a chance of Barca getting destroyed. Now it is almost guaranteed.
In truth, in the final analysis, I would put this whole situation down to bad communication.
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I hope the entire continent declares war on Aurvandil so they can shove that 31k army up their backsides...
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I hope the entire continent declares war on Aurvandil so they can shove that 31k army up their backsides...
It's a lot larger than 31kcs, we brought 35kcs just to deal with the 'Moot, and left a fair amount behind.
And well, our army wouldn't be an issue if the Veinsormoot didn't declare war in the first place, peace was all but assured with Barca, but then as it turns out Barca isn't exactly an independent realm.
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If by "peace" you mean Aurvandil stole three regions from you, you did nothing to get them back except somehow manage to provoke an attack from Aurvandil, completely roll over and watch your balls fall off, and then beg Aurvandil to let you live. Okay.
Well, they did plenty to get the regions back, it just so happens a lot of that was to provoke a war.
Barca didn't roll over, they stood their ground and fought us, and when it was over they even asked us a arranged open field battle as a prerequisite for peace, and they certainly didn't beg Aurvandil for peace, and Aurvandil wouldn't tolerate such beggary. Aurvandil wanted peace, Barca wanted peace, and we were arranging a compromise to the affect of getting a peace treaty we both wanted. The only time Barca got castrated, is when they let their allies invalidate their sovereignty and independence and forced them into a war they didn't want, couldn't win, and will most certainly die from.
But, Terran will realise soon enough what it means to have the bulk of Aurvandil's army destroying it's capital except we won't give you the courtesies we gave Barca, since Barca we could actually respect as a realm.
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since Barca we could actually respect as a realm.
LOL. Oh so many "courtesies." Like, stealing three regions, and then attacking them for it.
What respect? You marched into their capital, RP-ed (an OOC rude and disrespectful thing to do) it a mud and sticks "uncivlized" waste hole in the forest, and proceeded to sack it. Dude, I think you're starting to believe your own indoctrination a little to much.
I mean, I realize Aurvandil have this whole mongol hordes thing going on and the "respect" and "courtesy" you allow your enemies is not really respect or courtesy, but you could at least not act you believe that OOC.
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Dude, I think you're starting to believe your own indoctrination a little to much.
I mean, I realize Aurvandil have this whole mongol hordes thing going on and the "respect" and "courtesy" you allow your enemies is not really respect or courtesy, but you could at least not act you believe that OOC.
+1, always been my only real beef too.
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+1, always been my only real beef too.
Pfft, as if they're any different from all the other guys around here who have to OOC prove to everyone they have IC justice on their side ::)
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Well lets review then.
Did Aurvandil steal the regions? No, they were forced on us quite against our will, and the war was irrespective of the regions, it was to punish Julius and to defend our honour, the war didn't affect whether or not we would return the regions, and it's exactly because of that that we didn't hand the regions over before the war started, though for a time I was considering it.
What courtesies did we afford Barca? Well, we forewarned them for over a week of our arrival, they just never bothered to question it. Upon our arrival in Rettlewood, what did we do? We gave them a day to give us terms for the war - effectively giving them the ability to tell us where, when and how this war will be fought, something they refused, so we marched into Rettleville, and after proving our point, we left immediately and offered them peace, and in talks for peace we were perfectly open to compromise and accepting terms Suffete Brackern offered. As far as I am aware, it's not exactly common that an invading army gives their enemy forewarning, then openly offers them the choice of when, where and how they will fight. There isn't really any two ways about it, that is showing courtesy, and we remained perfectly civil and respectful (Discounting the whole having my General sharpen his sword on their senate house business) in our dealings with Barca, it isn't a case of me spinning you bull!@#$ OOC to try and put Aurvandil in a better light.
As for your comments on the Roleplay, well I think that has already been concisely disproved on this thread as being "rude" about their city.
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My unit had 7 banners, 60 is hardly high enough for 3000 men. :P
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Well lets review then.
Did Aurvandil steal the regions? No, they were forced on us quite against our will, and the war was irrespective of the regions, it was to punish Julius and to defend our honour, the war didn't affect whether or not we would return the regions, and it's exactly because of that that we didn't hand the regions over before the war started, though for a time I was considering it.
What courtesies did we afford Barca? Well, we forewarned them for over a week of our arrival, they just never bothered to question it. Upon our arrival in Rettlewood, what did we do? We gave them a day to give us terms for the war - effectively giving them the ability to tell us where, when and how this war will be fought, something they refused, so we marched into Rettleville, and after proving our point, we left immediately and offered them peace, and in talks for peace we were perfectly open to compromise and accepting terms Suffete Brackern offered. As far as I am aware, it's not exactly common that an invading army gives their enemy forewarning, then openly offers them the choice of when, where and how they will fight. There isn't really any two ways about it, that is showing courtesy, and we remained perfectly civil and respectful (Discounting the whole having my General sharpen his sword on their senate house business) in our dealings with Barca, it isn't a case of me spinning you bull!@#$ OOC to try and put Aurvandil in a better light.
As for your comments on the Roleplay, well I think that has already been concisely disproved on this thread as being "rude" about their city.
you seem to forget that you should be treating this like a boardgame between friends, but your only goal is to !@#$ on everyone and shut them down. do you not understand why we're mad? we're not in this to get 100% efficiency and infinite goldz so we can become da kings of dwilight!!!!11 we're here to have fun and roleplay and play a game. when you waltz in and say "shiiiiet look at me, i'm the best, your city is !@#$ and your peasants are savages. !@#$, we march in dope-ass formations with infinite precision lookatmelookatmelookatmelookatme !@#$ all of you" we're gonna get pissed at you. quit being a jackass. if it wasn't my own ooc intentions, i'd have my character work his !@#$ing hardest to stomp your !@#$; but wait, my character isn't a perfect noble warrior intent on destroying the savages with infinite gold and 100% efficiency, he's a working human being with his own history. he has his own goals grappling with his long history of war and current inability to fight, trying to find meaning in his shattered world, adapting to a rapidly changing life where elders are no longer revered for their wisdom, and somehow trying to find an evolution of himself while he is facing his rapidly approaching mortality.
but !@#$, let's conquer the whole of dwilight with !@#$ing monarchies because we are the !@#$.
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you seem to forget that you should be treating this like a boardgame between friends, but your only goal is to !@#$ on everyone and shut them down. do you not understand why we're mad? we're not in this to get 100% efficiency and infinite goldz so we can become da kings of dwilight!!!!11 we're here to have fun and roleplay and play a game. when you waltz in and say "shiiiiet look at me, i'm the best, your city is !@#$ and your peasants are savages. !@#$, we march in dope-ass formations with infinite precision lookatmelookatmelookatmelookatme !@#$ all of you" we're gonna get pissed at you. quit being a jackass. if it wasn't my own ooc intentions, i'd have my character work his !@#$ing hardest to stomp your !@#$; but wait, my character isn't a perfect noble warrior intent on destroying the savages with infinite gold and 100% efficiency, he's a working human being with his own history. he has his own goals grappling with his long history of war and current inability to fight, trying to find meaning in his shattered world, adapting to a rapidly changing life where elders are no longer revered for their wisdom, and somehow trying to find an evolution of himself while he is facing his rapidly approaching mortality.
but !@#$, let's conquer the whole of dwilight with !@#$ing monarchies because we are the !@#$.
No, that isn't what we're doing at all.
Do we want to stomp all over Barca? No, why do you think we offered them the chance to fight us on their terms, and most recently, we even offered them the chance to pick the limit of how many men fight in a battle. We fight Barca because we are obligated to IC, you don't go up to a Monarch and insult him in his own throne room and then snub him do you?
"hen you waltz in and say "shiiiiet look at me, i'm the best, your city is !@#$ and your peasants are savages. !@#$, we march in dope-ass formations with infinite precision lookatmelookatmelookatmelookatme !@#$ all of you""
Your words, not ours, we've never said that, in fact, I've made a point of strenuously denying it, interestingly enough it's only people such as yourself who go around saying we say that. I seem to repeatedly point out instances in which Aurvandil fails to move in formation, or takes forever, in fact we had to repeatedly delay this campaign because our army couldn't move on time.
"but !@#$, let's conquer the whole of dwilight with !@#$ing monarchies because we are the !@#$."
Mendicant also made it clear he intends to shrink his dominion, not expand it, and that he likes the Republics of D'Hara and Barca, viewing the former as benevolent. But of course, continue putting words in my mouth and then telling me you're pissed of because we're saying something you decide we're sayhing.
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you seem to forget that you should be treating this like a boardgame between friends, but your only goal is to !@#$ on everyone and shut them down. do you not understand why we're mad? we're not in this to get 100% efficiency and infinite goldz so we can become da kings of dwilight!!!!11 we're here to have fun and roleplay and play a game. when you waltz in and say "shiiiiet look at me, i'm the best, your city is !@#$ and your peasants are savages. !@#$, we march in dope-ass formations with infinite precision lookatmelookatmelookatmelookatme !@#$ all of you" we're gonna get pissed at you. quit being a jackass. if it wasn't my own ooc intentions, i'd have my character work his !@#$ing hardest to stomp your !@#$; but wait, my character isn't a perfect noble warrior intent on destroying the savages with infinite gold and 100% efficiency, he's a working human being with his own history. he has his own goals grappling with his long history of war and current inability to fight, trying to find meaning in his shattered world, adapting to a rapidly changing life where elders are no longer revered for their wisdom, and somehow trying to find an evolution of himself while he is facing his rapidly approaching mortality.
but !@#$, let's conquer the whole of dwilight with !@#$ing monarchies because we are the !@#$.
Your not very smart are you? You mention that your here to roleplay, but you denounce Allomere's roleplaying something when his character probably wasn't very happy. If you actually read all of medicant's post in this thread he has been atleast civil towards Barca and IC he did act honorably. Their is NO reason to go off on someone like this. It's rediculous.
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I've made a point of strenuously denying it, interestingly enough it's only people such as yourself who go around saying we say that. I seem to repeatedly point out instances in which Aurvandil fails to move in formation, or takes forever, in fact we had to repeatedly delay this campaign because our army couldn't move on time.
Uh.. what?
It's a lot larger than 31kcs, we brought 35kcs just to deal with the 'Moot, and left a fair amount behind.
But, Terran will realise soon enough what it means to have the bulk of Aurvandil's army destroying it's capital except we won't give you the courtesies we gave Barca, since Barca we could actually respect as a realm.
That relies heavily upon the assumption that Aurvandil will let you rally a joint army again, which is rather contraindicated by our usual quick and decisive military strategy of going for the jugular right of the bat, and since Barca rallied to fight us whilst in peace talks, we aren't inclined to be merciful this time around.
Yeah... Mr. Humble right there. Always going out of his way to not say "Hey, we're the !@#$. You all suck."
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Bla bla bla... if you can't deal with the possibility of your neighbor stomping the !@#$ out of you just because they can, you joined the wrong game.
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Uh.. what?
Yeah... Mr. Humble right there. Always going out of his way to not say "Hey, we're the !@#$. You all suck."
Well, I have countless times disproved the myth of Aurvandil's speed and efficiency in combat, don't believe me? Back track in some threads on Aurvandil, you'll find them.
And no, I don't go out of my way to say we're the !@#$, I'm perfectly candid about Aurvandil's failures and successes, more so in fact to disprove the myth of our invulnerability than anything, but nobody ever listens to that and of course no one bothers to talk about the set backs in Aurvandil's military when they can complain we're basically being bullies, for winning a battle.
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Slightly off topic question: why do virtually all of the Aurvandil folk have the same username convention on the forums? It seems like it's almost always ThisThat. Do you sit around and coordinate this? If so, where?
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Slightly off topic question: why do virtually all of the Aurvandil folk have the same username convention on the forums? It seems like it's almost always ThisThat. Do you sit around and coordinate this? If so, where?
The only Aurvandil folk I know who are on the forum are Me - NoblesseChevaleresque, Lanyon, called Lanyon, and Foundation? So yeah, not quite getting your point here.
Oh, and Allomere, under the username Allomere, and Harte, under the username DoctorHarte.
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Moderator note: I deleted this post due to profanity, and insults directed at other players. Keep it polite, or quit posting. ~~Indirik
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Moderator note: I deleted this post because 95% of it was a quote of a deleted post. ~~Indirik
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Charming.
Now you just aren't making any coherent sense, keep your ad hominem rubbish to yourself will you.
I am rather charming, thanks.
I'm making a lot of sense. My issue doesn't lie in you roflstomping the 'moot, it lies in your characters have no reason to do it besides thinly veiled ooc ones.
want to prove me wrong? what character development have your characters seen? go ahead, don't be shy. tell me anything.
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No reason? A good deal of wars have been started because of insults. Or do you think getting angry incharacter is non-SMA because that is about as much sense as you are making. Even if it was a land grab under the pretense of an insult that is 100% a good reason as many wars have been started that way also.
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I am rather charming, thanks.
I'm making a lot of sense. My issue doesn't lie in you roflstomping the 'moot, it lies in your characters have no reason to do it besides thinly veiled ooc ones.
want to prove me wrong? what character development have your characters seen? go ahead, don't be shy. tell me anything.
OOC reasons? There aren't none, save for my obligation to the game and the realm to make the game fun to play in, to give people things to do. Also, why are we "stomping" the Moot? Because they declared war on Aurvandil, I think you ought to direct your bogus OOC accusations at them really, unless your actually picking fault with Aurvandil defending itself.
Also, roflstomping wasn't my term, I didn't say it, so don't act like I did.
As for our IC reasons? Well they mocked, insulted and verbally attacked the High Sovereign, they turned their back on him, snubbed him, tried to put him down and call him a liar and a fool. Kingdoms have been destroyed for lesser reasons than that. Further reasons? Oh yeah, Barca dicked us about in negotiations for weeks and came back to us with nothing.
Lets face it, your pissed of, you're letting your emotions cloud your judgement, the result? You're bitching inanely on the forum, by all means enjoy your angst, but don't throw it in other peoples face for what is clearly a thinly veiled grudge based on nothing.
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Lets face it, your pissed of,
Honestly, yeah.
However, I think it is because it is extremely hard not to feel royally screwed when you're fighting an enemy that seems so extremely efficient and powerful compared to anything you've ever met anywhere else in the game, and has a past of being blamed/convicted/etc. of clanning and game exploits, that even though they're supposed to be in the "clear" now, it is hard to ever feel like something fishy isn't going on or like you just aren't getting a fair chance.
Not to mention that Mendicant and his gang is extremely easy to hate. You know this. You all purposely play your characters as really arrogant and pompous and above everyone else. Which is fine, of course. I mean you're certainly good at it. But playing that way, combined with the all the stuff I mentioned above, just rubs people really weird.
I'm not saying it's justified to feel/be that way, myself included, but I think that's the source of it.
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Having talked to Mendicant numerous times I find him to be perfectly fine. I didn't find him pompous nor arrogant. He is proud of his achievements and his civilization. I enjoy talking with him and hearing about Aurvandiilians eating stuffed whales, stuffed with animals stuffed within each other and mercury fountains, decadence and opulence. I am glad he is in the game.
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Having talked to Mendicant numerous times I find him to be perfectly fine. I didn't find him pompous nor arrogant. He is proud of his achievements and his civilization. I enjoy talking with him and hearing about Aurvandiilians eating stuffed whales, stuffed with animals stuffed within each other and mercury fountains, decadence and opulence. I am glad he is in the game.
I am glad King Glaumring is in the game because he is funny and fun to lead an army against, even when he beats me up. :D
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Mendicant roleplays ostentatious decadence with arrogance. Glaumring is uncouth barbarian arrogance. People dont like that but they make for good characters and even better enemies.
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I have to admit Dwilight wouldn't be the same without glaumring. whether you think that would be good or bad it's true.
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Uncouth barbarian arrogance is pretty great in a game set in the days of eat-everything-with-your-unwashed-hands, what-the-hell's-a-fork nobility. It looks rough to us now but back then that's what got you respect.
*Glaumring runs by, screaming at old men.*
Peasant: Who's that then?
Other Peasant: I dunno, must be a king.
Peasant: Why?
Other Peasant: He hasn't got !@#$ all over him.
Long story short I like him a lot even though IC my dude wants to kill him and take all his stuff.
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Advantage Aurvandil has. Yes?
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From what I know about medieval times every table had a hairy dog to lick your fingers clean and a coat to wipe your fingers dry on.
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What?
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A dog that was also a napkin. Which upon further research might not be true... But who cares. Barbarian= fun!
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Long story short I like him a lot even though IC my dude wants to kill him and take all his stuff his fancy table-dog.
Fixed.
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Let's try to keep things civil. Take a deep breathe before you press the post button ;)
No reason not to start a war in my opinion. We are playing Battlemaster not Peacekeeper. Hammer your neighbours if they look small and vulnerable. You can make up a reason as you hammer them hard. Many countries have done so. When your neighbour is suffering from internal problems, you hit them hard to grab what you can.
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Having talked to Mendicant numerous times I find him to be perfectly fine. I didn't find him pompous nor arrogant. He is proud of his achievements and his civilization. I enjoy talking with him and hearing about Aurvandiilians eating stuffed whales, stuffed with animals stuffed within each other and mercury fountains, decadence and opulence. I am glad he is in the game.
I talked to him sometimes, and I find him totally pompous conceived and arrogant ... I HATE AURVANDIL!... I HATE EVEN MORE MENDICANT! ... Arf, arf!... I fell much better, now! ;D
And after been said this, I don't really see the problem with Aurvandil, They are a bully realm? yes, The are hateful? yes They are a bunch of hypocrites? yes... and?... They are medieval nobles!... while the don't break the 'rules' I don't see what is the matter! Of course, nobody wants his realm destroyed by Aurvandil (I KNOW this! :P), but this is a game, and if Aurvandil plays it as a kind of Mongol Horde... well, Good for Aurvandill! If they enjoy the game this way, I'm ok with it!...
I will try to destroy them in-game, of course, but out-game, I must admit they 'shake' things, they make the game 'more alive'! A boring game is a dead game, and they don't make things boring exactly!!! 8)
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Poliorketes, well spoken. Lets defeat Aurvandil in-game, and be the pompous ones for a change.
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Mongol Horde? Oh no no, Allomere much more thinks of himself as a French-Imperial Napoleon-esque sort of character.
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Poliorketes, well spoken. Lets defeat Aurvandil in-game, and be the pompous ones for a change.
Which is why I pushed for war even though Barca was wussing out on the loss of their regions.
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Honestly, yeah.
However, I think it is because it is extremely hard not to feel royally screwed when you're fighting an enemy that seems so extremely efficient and powerful compared to anything you've ever met anywhere else in the game, and has a past of being blamed/convicted/etc. of clanning and game exploits, that even though they're supposed to be in the "clear" now, it is hard to ever feel like something fishy isn't going on or like you just aren't getting a fair chance.
Not to mention that Mendicant and his gang is extremely easy to hate. You know this. You all purposely play your characters as really arrogant and pompous and above everyone else. Which is fine, of course. I mean you're certainly good at it. But playing that way, combined with the all the stuff I mentioned above, just rubs people really weird.
I'm not saying it's justified to feel/be that way, myself included, but I think that's the source of it.
I'm quite sure we were never convicted of game exploits, at best a minority of characters were in a "Clan" of dubious definitions.
As to your point on not getting a fair chance, I understand that, and I don't like it either. Which is why when I was speaking to Barca I happily tried to arrange for a set battle where we both only use a maximum of a thousand men, or to let them pick when/where the war will be fought and in what manner, and it's why Mendicant let the 'Moot challenge him into attacking Maeotis, and then promptly the Knight Hausos again tries to arrange for terms in which the war will be fought against D'Hara. And it is also why Aurvandil refrained from looting Rettleville rogue and then heading to Twainville to do the same, and it's why Aurvandil tried so hard to get an amicable peace with Barca rather than forcing terms on them. Things are much more interesting when you empower your enemies, and give them a chance, and even more interesting when you leave them alive for future wars, ventures, expeditions etc. But at the same time you have to balance that OOC prerogative with what is I.C./R.P. for your character and realm.
As for Mendicant being arrogant, well I'd say it's more pride than outward obnoxiousness and pomposity, he is the High Sovereign, people wouldn't accept him if he was unduly humble, but he's never especially rude or belittling to other rulers or nobles for the sake of it.
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...but he's never especially rude or belittling to other rulers or nobles for the sake of it.
Mendicant does have a habit of asking why Allomere hasn't died yet.
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Mendicant does have a habit of asking why Allomere hasn't died yet.
Allomere can't live forever, and it's just unseemly that he's trying to.
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Oh Allomere you are cray cray!
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Mongol Horde? Oh no no, Allomere much more thinks of himself as a French-Imperial Napoleon-esque sort of character.
French-Imperial? Napoleon-esque? ???
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I declare war on Jpierre
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French-Imperial? Napoleon-esque? ???
Omg its not SMA !!!!
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I can't believe it's not SMA.
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Omg its not SMA !!!!
This is what SMA has become: just mockery.
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Mockery? Hardly, I see Aurvandiil and many others trying really hard to bring depth and interest to BM. If BM is about cultures and civilizations and war then there is no way that BM can be entirely restricted to something as vague as an SMA that is static. It is up to Tom to code in how he wants the game to be, if we are supposed to be SMA then remove every title except medievals ones, make a list of accepted religion types that players can choose from. That way no one can go outside of th boundaries, no new ideas need be introduced, we can play battlemaster without these issues constantly coming up. Instead we can play stats master and whine and complain about HP/MP and unit strength.
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stuff
You are mocking SMA, he wasn't saying Aurvandil was. SMA doesn't mean no new ideas. Religion wise quit whining that people weren't sure if worshipping a fruit is really SMA considering it has no deities or any kind of higher power. If it was a guild no one would have thought otherwise but its a little out there for a religion so people weren't sure. For titles, if it is something obviously not SMA it should be removed but I haven't seen a title yet that I didn't consider SMA.
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Oh god can you please not bring up the religion bit. I was having fun woth you guys, poking fun. You guys take every bleeping thing I bleeping say so bleeping serious... So bleeping stop it already.
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I'll bleep whenever I feel like it and there's nothing you can do about it
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People are keep saying SMA but Dwlight doesn't feel that serious. If it really was serious, all realms would be somewhat close to theocracies. States and religions were very close and there was no such thing as no religion. No temples allowed? are you kidding me? That shouldn't even be allowed :p banning all religions during the middle age? really?
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People are keep saying SMA but Dwlight doesn't feel that serious. If it really was serious, all realms would be somewhat close to theocracies. States and religions were very close and there was no such thing as no religion. No temples allowed? are you kidding me? That shouldn't even be allowed :p banning all religions during the middle age? really?
The main problem is that people all have differing idea's about what the "Serious" part means. In my opinion it was never meant to enforce strict historically accurate Western European cultural systems.
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People are keep saying SMA but Dwlight doesn't feel that serious. If it really was serious, all realms would be somewhat close to theocracies. States and religions were very close and there was no such thing as no religion. No temples allowed? are you kidding me? That shouldn't even be allowed :p banning all religions during the middle age? really?
Well, after seeing the Napoleon bit it all starts to makes sense. They are using another epoch for reference. After the French Revolution the "no religions" and "all hail Nappy" makes total sense. The problem, you know, is that it's not medieval. Why in Dwilight, I wonder?
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Well, after seeing the Napoleon bit it all starts to makes sense. They are using another epoch for reference. After the French Revolution the "no religions" and "all hail Nappy" makes total sense. The problem, you know, is that it's not medieval. Why in Dwilight, I wonder?
As far as I know they don't ban religions, just the building of temples.
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As far as I know they don't ban religions, just the building of temples.
Don't they also forbid their nobles from being affiliated with any major religions? If so, that would prevent people from playing Priests. That's why I always thought they should make Monarchism into a religion since it seems to fit the standards for one, and it would prevent people from accusing them of atheism.
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So do y'all think something along the lines of napolean couldn't have happened in medieval times? Aurvandil even kind of follows suit with their break away from Madina and the hardships they've had to deal with. Therefore, I think it would be perfectly logical that the people of Aurvandil could come to believe only in their monarch.
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Don't they also forbid their nobles from being affiliated with any major religions? If so, that would prevent people from playing Priests. That's why I always thought they should make Monarchism into a religion since it seems to fit the standards for one, and it would prevent people from accusing them of atheism.
I've not heard of them restricting religious affiliation. I have heard of a don't ask don't tell policy but I can't confirm that it is the case.
Besides we are forgetting a key aspect here. Even if I don't join a major religion my noble is still religious, just defined as following some small pagan faith. There is no requirement that people belong to major religions, even on Dwilight. Tom's comments only apply to people that claim to be atheist.
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So do y'all think something along the lines of napolean couldn't have happened in medieval times? Aurvandil even kind of follows suit with their break away from Madina and the hardships they've had to deal with. Therefore, I think it would be perfectly logical that the people of Aurvandil could come to believe only in their monarch.
Logical "what if's" are always dangerous. Given time people could construct a what if that would give rise to a modern democracy in a medieval setting as well. I could however easily see a realm elevating their Monarch in such a way, but then I would also see them building temples and rites around it. If you are going to transfer the relevance and belief in deities to a physical being, to me it would make sense that you basically elevate them to the position of demi-god.
That said I see no reason why there is a problem with Aurvandil as is. Obviously the peasants are happy to follow numerous and varied local pagan systems. Without large organised religions operating in the realm and converting the peasants I see little reason why a nobles religious beliefs would not be a private matter.
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As far as I know they don't ban religions, just the building of temples.
How can one ban religions besides not allowing temples to be built or priests to preach? That is precisely what the Theocracies do unaffiliated religions. There is no much more to do.
So do y'all think something along the lines of napolean couldn't have happened in medieval times? Aurvandil even kind of follows suit with their break away from Madina and the hardships they've had to deal with. Therefore, I think it would be perfectly logical that the people of Aurvandil could come to believe only in their monarch.
Napoleonic times came influenced by a lot of ideals of the enlightenment age, republicanism tied with Emperor-semi-worship (or personality cult), French revolution, universal rights, anti-clericalism and whatnot. It's everything besides Medieval.
I'm not advocating we stay 100% faithful to the Medieval times, but an ideology of that magnitude of difference seriously harms the atmosphere. It's like me RPing my noble as a socialist, or a vegan.
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How can one ban religions besides not allowing temples to be built or priests to preach? That is precisely what the Theocracies do unaffiliated religions. There is no much more to do.
You can try to ban anyone from your realm that is discovered to even belong to a religion.
Napoleonic times came influenced by a lot of ideals of the enlightenment age, republicanism tied with Emperor-semi-worship (or personality cult), French revolution, universal rights, anti-clericalism and whatnot. It's everything besides Medieval.
While the French certainly revered Napoleon its not like they abandoned religion entirely.
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Instead of SMA is should be Serious Conan the Barbarian type world setting.
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You can try to ban anyone from your realm that is discovered to even belong to a religion.
Counterproductive. Not even the theocracies do that with people of other religions.
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Counterproductive. Not even the theocracies do that with people of other religions.
Its only counterproductive if you assume a reasonable number of nobles would disobey the edict to start with.
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We hold a very strong don't ask don't tell policy on the religion, you can be religious, but to admit it would get you severely socially ostracised, Mendicant might even go so far as to exclude the person from his Royal Banquets, which by law attendance is mandatory for all nobles and is the most important social/political event in Aurvandil, the centre of our Commonwealth and the ties that bind the nobility, if you aren't allowed at his banquets than you are lower than the dirt, below recognition or relevancy.
In ancient Spartan society the most important thing in life for a man was to be included in their Mess halls (Or whatever they were called) it's a similar thing in Aurvandil.
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"They might be athiests! - Magistrates!!"
"They might be restricting Priest class - Magistrates!!"
"They might be _insert wild assumption_ - Magistrates!!"
Oh and just incase it was too dry .. the Napoleon thing was a joke. The fact that all the "Thats not SMA!" comments were pointless notwithstanding; that the most fanatical Monarchists on Dwilight are actually 18th Century genociding Republicans is definitely the genus of our entire realm's roleplay and culture.~
I might as well have said Allomere was more like a "thin, white, Mugabe", but then I'd probably be being not-SMA and a rascist.
"Magistrates!!!"
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We hold a very strong don't ask don't tell policy on the religion, you can be religious, but to admit it would get you severely socially ostracised, Mendicant might even go so far as to exclude the person from his Royal Banquets, which by law attendance is mandatory for all nobles and is the most important social/political event in Aurvandil, the centre of our Commonwealth and the ties that bind the nobility, if you aren't allowed at his banquets than you are lower than the dirt, below recognition or relevancy.
In ancient Spartan society the most important thing in life for a man was to be included in their Mess halls (Or whatever they were called) it's a similar thing in Aurvandil.
So admitting religiousness makes one ostracized? In medieval times? Really? I mean, I can understand that in certain circles of contemporaneous society, but in those times everyone was religious to a certain extent. Their whole world view was explained by religion! Those not part of a Church are still religious, just not of an organized one...
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*Trolling.*
*Counter-trolling, flame war ensues.*
Seriously dude, don't be like that.
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Oh and just incase it was too dry .. the Napoleon thing was a joke.
You act like it's hard to believe. You all send obnoxious arrogant letters chock full of French terms, your signature is full of French, you rename everything in French, and yes you do seem to style your realm around all kinds of French stuff.
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So admitting religiousness makes one ostracized? In medieval times? Really? I mean, I can understand that in certain circles of contemporaneous society, but in those times everyone was religious to a certain extent. Their whole world view was explained by religion! Those not part of a Church are still religious, just not of an organized one...
Medieval times, you mean those times in Europe where there was a single religion with a handful of churches with slight deviations in their own belief, enforced by both law and force of arms? We can hardly realistically be "SMA" about religion if we're copying medieval Europe, and it'd be !@#$ if we tried to.
And Aurvandil is religious to an extent, we call it Monarchism.
The Oxford Dictionary defines religion as this:
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods:
[count noun] a particular system of faith and worship: the world’s great religions
[count noun] a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion:
That rather sums up Aurvandil's attitudes towards Monarchism and the High Sovereign, we just don't call it religion because that would imply it's... faith based, mere belief and worship, as opposed to being very real and ever present in peoples daily lives in a quantifiable, provable way.
You act like it's hard to believe. You all send obnoxious arrogant letters chock full of French terms, your signature is full of French, you rename everything in French, and yes you do seem to style your realm around all kinds of French stuff.
Just in case you're in any doubt, France existed for a long time before Napoleon came around, and so did the French language. We're a hilarious mix of post revolution France, and pre Revolution Frace, as well as the Chivalry era of France. Which, encompasses nearly six hundred years of Frenchness, from the middle ages onwards.
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as opposed to being very real and ever present in peoples daily lives in a quantifiable, provable way.
Which is exactly what religion is in the minds of Medieval people. At least as a worldview. No one in the Middle Ages thought of religion as being "merely" faith based or "unprovable." Quite the contrary, I would say.
Just in case you're in any doubt, France existed for a long time before Napoleon came around, and so did the French language. We're a hilarious mix of post revolution France, and pre Revolution Frace, as well as the Chivalry era of France. Which, encompasses nearly six hundred years of Frenchness, from the middle ages onwards.
Sure. I was just saying that it isn't far-fetched for someone to take Allomere's Napoloen "joke" seriously given the context of all the French stuff.
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We can hardly realistically be "SMA" about religion if we're copying medieval Europe, and it'd be !@#$ if we tried to.
SMA doesn't mean simulating Medieval European times, it means having your nobles act like nobles did in Medieval European times. For requirements on a religion being SMA by Tom is "not being obviously silly is the only real requirement I can think of."
Also I agree with Perth, they didn't just have faith in it, they thought it was a very real thing. The Pope actually hired someone to prove God's existence and he did though you probably wouldn't agree with his proof.
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Well this is awkward... the whole duchy of Madina flip scenario
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Well this is awkward... the whole duchy of Madina flip scenario
Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and confess absolute shock and surprise. Wish I saw this one comin'.
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I didn't even see that one coming and it was my liege lord that flipped it.
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Yeah. I'm gonna go ahead and confess absolute shock and surprise. Wish I saw this one comin'.
It's actually not quite as dramatic as it sounds. First, apparently Madina city isn't actually *in* the Duchy of Madina anymore. Second, it wasn't that many nobles who made the switch. Aurvandil just lost Madina Gardens plus a few minor regions, but it doesn't look like much of a power shift to me. What it looks like is a big headache for Fissoa and possibly the Lurias, though it could well prove to be a blessing for the 'Moot if it prompts Aurvandil to withdraw.
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A silly change of allegiance really, over nothing as well. Well that's the last time I trust a former Madinian Grand Doge.
Damn lucky I took Madina City from his control a few days ago as well.
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A silly change of allegiance really, over nothing as well. Well that's the last time I trust a former Madinian Grand Doge.
Damn lucky I took Madina City from his control a few days ago as well.
Report from Tarkus Graves (14 minutes ago)
Message sent to everyone in "Verdis Elementum" (26 recipients)
Faithful,
The Commonwealth of Aurvandil has declared war on all religion.
They demand their nobility burn temples where they find them, dismantle shrines, and abandon their religion.
They have declared all religion evil, and claim that there are no gods.
They believe in nothing, and scorn all other beliefs.
They believe that there is enlightenment through atheism.
I cannot - and do not - support this farce any further.
I ask those who can message other religions, be they friend or foe, and inform them of this threat to our way of life.
Humbly,
Tarkus Graves of Grand Duchy of Fissoa
Maester of Fire of Verdis Elementum, Duke of Madina, Margrave of Madina Gardens
It appears you had it coming to you--first for appointing the former Grand Doge, and second for declaring war on religion.
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Declared war on religion? Not even close, we simply don't allow unauthorised religious buildings in Aurvandil, there is a world of difference. Though a lot of people like to pretend otherwise despite the wealth of evidence to the contrary. Also, atheism? That's not very... SMA, and it's certainly not Aurvandil.
But appointing the former Grand Doge? Entirely, never believe in the honour or loyalty of a Madinian.
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never believe in the honour or loyalty of a Madinian.
On that, the 'Moot and Aurvandil can find common ground.
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Still, I don't think Auvrandil is winning the IC propaganda war.
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Still, I don't think Auvrandil is winning the IC propaganda war.
A war of words has only gotten the Moot beaten, and fast, the same happened to Madina, and the Moot is just recycling their old rubbish for propaganda.
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Still, I don't think Auvrandil is winning the IC propaganda war.
Given the general OOC bias against them, do you think it is at all possible for them to win the IC war? There are precious few people able to properly separate IC and OOC. I've certainly had times of not being able to properly distance the two.
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Given the general OOC bias against them, do you think it is at all possible for them to win the IC war? There are precious few people able to properly separate IC and OOC. I've certainly had times of not being able to properly distance the two.
For a while I was under the suspicion a punish the clanners war was in the works, as we saw happen to Fontan.
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Given the general OOC bias against them, do you think it is at all possible for them to win the IC war? There are precious few people able to properly separate IC and OOC. I've certainly had times of not being able to properly distance the two.
Yes, it is, and easily. They could rewrite this war and win public support easily, for example, by converting to Sanguis Astroism.
Or just by not being unilateralists with a cult of personality about their monarch.
Honestly, this war against Aurvandil isn't about clanning at all. It's about Aurvandil's being a schoolyard bully in a very IC way, and them very ICly being complete and utter failures at diplomacy. War they can do; diplomacy they cannot. They very well might win the war, in which case their ignorance of diplomacy might be vindicated. But yes, I think that they could win the propaganda war.
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So... what religious buildings *are* allowed in Aurvandil?
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Only shrines to Terrence.
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Shrines to Terrence would be so awesome.
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Medieval times, you mean those times in Europe where there was a single religion with a handful of churches with slight deviations in their own belief, enforced by both law and force of arms? We can hardly realistically be "SMA" about religion if we're copying medieval Europe, and it'd be !@#$ if we tried to.
The Medieval times is a long period which had several religions coexisting, not only Catholicism, though I see BM's religion module as more closely resembling an Ancient times model.
In any case SMA, as said before, is about you character acting with the mindset of the medieval noble. Keep reading and I'll explain how yours is not doing it.
And Aurvandil is religious to an extent, we call it Monarchism.
The Oxford Dictionary defines religion as this:
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods:
[count noun] a particular system of faith and worship: the world’s great religions
[count noun] a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion:
The Oxford Dictionary defines Monarchism as this:
noun
support for the principle of having monarchs.
Is that your religion? Where is the belief and worship of a superhuman controlling power in there? Unless you claim to be following the definition of "a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion", which with such an open interpretation could make Sudoku a religion.
That rather sums up Aurvandil's attitudes towards Monarchism and the High Sovereign, we just don't call it religion because that would imply it's... faith based, mere belief and worship, as opposed to being very real and ever present in peoples daily lives in a quantifiable, provable way.
This is not SMA at all. That is the logic of a post-Enlightenment Age person, not of a superstitious medieval noble. Religions are not "mere beliefs" for our SMA characters, they are the only absolute truths they have, their anchor and reference. There is a saying among religious people in where I live that sums up what is SMA (and also modern for many people): "There are only two things certain in life: that God exists and death".
Your culture seems to be a very modern form of Enlightened absolutism, post French revolution. A monarch would be very swiftly ousted by nobility and peasants alike if he declared war on religion, seen as a heathen and a madman.
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them very ICly being complete and utter failures at diplomacy. War they can do; diplomacy they cannot. They very well might win the war, in which case their ignorance of diplomacy might be vindicated. But yes, I think that they could win the propaganda war.
You base that statement on what exactly?
Aurvandil very much succeeds at its intended diplomatic path of amicable isolationism, straightforward politics and maintaining cordial relations with it's neighbours and friendships with it's friends, save for Barca. But I assume that you think because we don't make large strings of alliances, or cosying up to people that our diplomacy has failed, when that isn't the prerogative of our diplomacy in the first place.
There are very good in character reasons why Aurvandil hasn't yet made alliances with certain realms, but that is because we don't accept the traditional paradigm of an alliance, which is why I declined a generic "mutual support" alliance with D'Hara when offered.
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So... what religious buildings *are* allowed in Aurvandil?
Depends on what you consider to be religious I suppose, which opens a kettle of fish about buildings in Aurvandil we can consider to be religious, or sacred, etc.
The Medieval times is a long period which had several religions coexisting, not only Catholicism, though I see BM's religion module as more closely resembling an Ancient times model.
In any case SMA, as said before, is about you character acting with the mindset of the medieval noble. Keep reading and I'll explain how yours is not doing it.
The Oxford Dictionary defines Monarchism as this:
noun
support for the principle of having monarchs.
Is that your religion? Where is the belief and worship of a superhuman controlling power in there? Unless you claim to be following the definition of "a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion", which with such an open interpretation could make Sudoku a religion.
This is not SMA at all. That is the logic of a post-Enlightenment Age person, not of a superstitious medieval noble. Religions are not "mere beliefs" for our SMA characters, they are the only absolute truths they have, their anchor and reference. There is a saying among religious people in where I live that sums up what is SMA (and also modern for many people): "There are only two things certain in life: that God exists and death".
Your culture seems to be a very modern form of Enlightened absolutism, post French revolution. A monarch would be very swiftly ousted by nobility and peasants alike if he declared war on religion, seen as a heathen and a madman.
Aurvandil hasn't declared war on religion, it's only people on the forum saying that as far as I am aware, and last I checked what hearsay posted on the forum doesn't actually reflect the in character policies of Aurvandil. It's like saying Aurvandil has declared war on scouts, if we close a scouts guild. Aurvandil, in it's time has closed a single religious building, and that was done against the instruction of Mendicant, and Aurvandil however has made it perfectly clear what other realms believe/worship/build isn't any of our business, and is below our notice, the only time we would take exception to their religion is when they try to force it on other realms, which, as the last free realm of the League, we are obligated to do. If we declared war on religion to spread our own views on religion, then how would that make us any different from realms that try to spread their religions by force? It wouldn't, but it would make us hypocrites. Aurvandil isn't going to be fighting any war to spread religious views, quite simply.
Mendicant made it quite clear in his letter to D'Hara while back that Aurvandil deals with varying religions simply by making them irrelevant to the Commonwealth, by refuting their beliefs or otherwise extolling the virtues of our own ideology as a counter, but mainly by ignoring the religion, letting it fade from public awareness. Which is fairly standard practice for trying to put one religion before another without the use of force.
"Is that your religion? Where is the belief and worship of a superhuman controlling power in there?"
Is that entirely necessary? There is such a thing as nontheistic religion, where you don't accept or believe in God's, which existed in the allotted time frame of the SMA, and Aurvandil fits that bill pretty nicely, but for the sake of argument, Mendicant is very much a controlling power that transcends the limitations of ordinary men. Aurvandil very much can be considered to practice hero worship.
"A hero was more than human but less than a god, and various kinds of supernatural figures came to be assimilated to the class of heroes; the distinction between a hero and a god was less than certain, especially in the case of Heracles, the most prominent, but a typical hero"
Which quite defines the way Mendicant is considered, not necessarily a God, but definitely not of the same class as men. Another thing to consider is apotheosis, we could quite easily say that the coronation of Mendicant was an act of deification, there were multiple, deliberate contrasts to it, and Mendicant has referred to it in a similar manner. A very important thing to remember however, is Aurvandil hasn't denied the existence of God's, we hold an epicurean belief on the God's (We accept the likelihood of their existence, but deny the notion that they interfere or control the lives of humans, and likely don't know of our existence) in our own words we consider them to be irrelevant until such a time as they become relevant.
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Aurvandil hasn't declared war on religion, it's only people on the forum saying that as far as I am aware, and last I checked what hearsay posted on the forum doesn't actually reflect the in character policies of Aurvandil. It's like saying Aurvandil has declared war on scouts, if we close a scouts guild. Aurvandil, in it's time has closed a single religious building, and that was done against the instruction of Mendicant, and Aurvandil however has made it perfectly clear what other realms believe/worship/build isn't any of our business, and is below our notice, the only time we would take exception to their religion is when they try to force it on other realms, which, as the last free realm of the League, we are obligated to do. If we declared war on religion to spread our own views on religion, then how would that make us any different from realms that try to spread their religions by force? It wouldn't, but it would make us hypocrites. Aurvandil isn't going to be fighting any war to spread religious views, quite simply.
Whoa, you consider yourselves part of the League? I guarantee you that no one in S.A. is aware of that little gem...
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Whoa, you consider yourselves part of the League? I guarantee you that no one in S.A. is aware of that little gem...
Damn good thing this is being said OOC then.
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Depends on what you consider to be religious I suppose, which opens a kettle of fish about buildings in Aurvandil we can consider to be religious, or sacred, etc.
This isn't really about what I consider religious. It's your realm, and your rules. I'm asking you about your rules, not my viewpoints. You say "we simply don't allow unauthorised religious buildings in Aurvandil". Therefore, you already define authorised and unauthorised religious buildings. I would like to know Aurvandil's definitions of authorised and unauthorised.
Aurvandil hasn't declared war on religion...
Well, yeah, you kinda have. You may not have said the exact words "Aurvandil hereby declares war on religion", but you said pretty much the same thing. (This took me a while to find, running through my old saved junk...)
...you would tolerate and regulate religion, where I have and will abolish it's very existence indiscriminately.
How does one battle religion? You destroy it as a concept, you remove its need or necessity, you disprove and de-construct it, in essence, you make it redundant and subject it to the worst of fates for anything in existence, irrelevance. When people have no need of forlorn belief and hope, they will not look for it.
Aurvandil stands as the example of irreligion, where commons and gentry combined have seen the very concept of religion become an irrelevant concept
Why would we acknowledge, or pay obeisance to the doubtable existence of God's or higher powers, that are in all probability unaware or uncaring to our existence, when we have a Monarch, the truest image, and earthly presence of a God.
God's were only ever modelled to be a cheap facsimile of a Monarch; God's could never be as tangible, plausible and undeniable as a Monarch.
Aurvandil has only Monarchy, and not religion, and I would see to it that keeps that way.
Is it any wonder that people all over the island (most of whom have probably seen all these by now) believe that Mendicant has declared war on religion? You declared flat out that you doubt the existence of gods, that they are cheap facsimiles of yourself, that you want to destroy the very concept of religion, that you have and will abolish its very existence, etc., etc. ... So, no, I don't have any quotes from Mendicant saying "I declare war on religion". But I have enough other things that convince me, and pretty much everyone who's seen these, that Mendicant has, in fact, declared war on religion even though he hasn't used the word "war".
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Damn good thing this is being said OOC then.
Yep. Unless you actually want a Crusade declared on Aurvandil, anyway. Though to be honest, I'm not certain what the end result of that would be.
Regarding the ongoing discussion about whether you've declared war on religion, if you truly consider Aurvandil to be in the League then you already have declared war on Sanguis Astroism at least, we just don't know it yet.
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Back to OOC commentary on IC events: I thought the speechifying against religion was rather ill-advised on Mendicant's part. Whatever his actual motives, I'm not sure why anyone who's been otherwise savvy would actually commit those words to record.
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I don't think Mendicant is the type to care what other people think. He's quite arrogant, after all, and supremely self-confident.
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This isn't really about what I consider religious. It's your realm, and your rules. I'm asking you about your rules, not my viewpoints. You say "we simply don't allow unauthorised religious buildings in Aurvandil". Therefore, you already define authorised and unauthorised religious buildings. I would like to know Aurvandil's definitions of authorised and unauthorised.
Well, yeah, you kinda have. You may not have said the exact words "Aurvandil hereby declares war on religion", but you said pretty much the same thing. (This took me a while to find, running through my old saved junk...)
Is it any wonder that people all over the island (most of whom have probably seen all these by now) believe that Mendicant has declared war on religion? You declared flat out that you doubt the existence of gods, that they are cheap facsimiles of yourself, that you want to destroy the very concept of religion, that you have and will abolish its very existence, etc., etc. ... So, no, I don't have any quotes from Mendicant saying "I declare war on religion". But I have enough other things that convince me, and pretty much everyone who's seen these, that Mendicant has, in fact, declared war on religion even though he hasn't used the word "war".
Well that's just it, Mendicant hasn't so much declared war on religion as he's said "I won't let it enter my realm" which is completely different, to say he's declared war on religion would imply he actually intends to... fight a war against religion. Where at current he doesn't even need to do that, there is no war and no conflict involved, nor is there isn't an agenda in Aurvandil to do so, we simply uphold our current state of not-having-a-religion in Aurvandil.
It's on the same line as Aurvandil saying "We currently have no Republicans in Aurvandil, and we won't accept Republicans into the Commonwealth" being taken as "Aurvandil declares war on all Republics everywhere".
I don't think Mendicant is the type to care what other people think. He's quite arrogant, after all, and supremely self-confident.
This.
Though, Mendicant takes the time not to care about other realms religions, it's a shame the same disinterest isn't afforded to Aurvandil.
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Well that's just it, Mendicant hasn't so much declared war on religion as he's said "I won't let it enter my realm" which is completely different, to say he's declared war on religion would imply he actually intends to... fight a war against religion.
That's not the impression you give people when you send those kinds of messages. If you wanted to say "I won't let it enter my realm", then you can just say that. When you say you want to "abolish it's very existence indiscriminately", that doesn't sound anything like "We don't want it in our realm".
It's on the same line as Aurvandil saying "We currently have no Republicans in Aurvandil, and we won't accept Republicans into the Commonwealth" being taken as "Aurvandil declares war on all Republics everywhere".
No, that would be completely different. Because none of those are what was said, nor even remotely close to what was said. If you had said "abolish [republicanism's] very existence indiscriminately", then it would be similar.
If you really are intending to just say "We don't want it in our realm, we don't care what you do in your realm", then you're not getting your point across very well. Pretty much everyone outside your realm (and, judging by the Madina situation, quite a few people inside your realm) takes your meaning as wanting to destroy all religion period. Perhaps you should try to say what you mean in a different fashion. Or at least recognize where the misunderstanding comes in, and accept that it's a natural consequence of the way you're saying things.
Though, Mendicant takes the time not to care about other realms religions, it's a shame the same disinterest isn't afforded to Aurvandil.
If no one took interest in what other people were doing, then the game would be pretty boring. We'd all be better off playing single player games. The whole point of an MMORPG is interacting with other people. Being interested in what they are doing, and them being interested in what we are doing.
You also completely avoided this question: "You say "we simply don't allow unauthorised religious buildings in Aurvandil". Therefore, you already define authorised and unauthorised religious buildings. I would like to know Aurvandil's definitions of authorised and unauthorised."
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Though, Mendicant takes the time not to care about other realms religions, it's a shame the same disinterest isn't afforded to Aurvandil.
Again, this is probably because everyone else is trying to play as a Medieval noble who would definitely concern himself with the religious beliefs of those around them, and not as Thomas Jefferson saying "Whether my neighbor believes in one god or ten, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my back! Live and Let Live, my good man!"
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That's not the impression you give people when you send those kinds of messages. If you wanted to say "I won't let it enter my realm", then you can just say that. When you say you want to "abolish it's very existence indiscriminately", that doesn't sound anything like "We don't want it in our realm".
No, that would be completely different. Because none of those are what was said, nor even remotely close to what was said. If you had said "abolish [republicanism's] very existence indiscriminately", then it would be similar.
If you really are intending to just say "We don't want it in our realm, we don't care what you do in your realm", then you're not getting your point across very well. Pretty much everyone outside your realm (and, judging by the Madina situation, quite a few people inside your realm) takes your meaning as wanting to destroy all religion period. Perhaps you should try to say what you mean in a different fashion. Or at least recognize where the misunderstanding comes in, and accept that it's a natural consequence of the way you're saying things.
If no one took interest in what other people were doing, then the game would be pretty boring. We'd all be better off playing single player games. The whole point of an MMORPG is interacting with other people. Being interested in what they are doing, and them being interested in what we are doing.
You also completely avoided this question: "You say "we simply don't allow unauthorised religious buildings in Aurvandil". Therefore, you already define authorised and unauthorised religious buildings. I would like to know Aurvandil's definitions of authorised and unauthorised."
Well, I am quite sure you've taken the quote "Abolish it's existence indiscriminately" out of the context it was in, which was on how Aurvandil handles religion in its own realm, which was the discussion I was having with the D'Haran PM at the time. Perhaps I should have added the addendum "Abolish it's existence indiscriminately within Aurvandil" but whatever.
Aurvandil's definition of authorised, and unauthorised is simple - that which the High Sovereign has given permission to construct.
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Well, I am quite sure you've taken the quote "Abolish it's existence indiscriminately" out of the context it was in, which was on how Aurvandil handles religion in its own realm, which was the discussion I was having with the D'Haran PM at the time. Perhaps I should have added the addendum "Abolish it's existence indiscriminately within Aurvandil" but whatever.
That would, indeed, give that message a completely different meaning.
Aurvandil's definition of authorised, and unauthorised is simple - that which the High Sovereign has given permission to construct.
Has he ever given anyone permission to construct a religious building? If so, what kind was it? A temple, or just an RP'd building that has no game-mechanics significance?
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Has he ever given anyone permission to construct a religious building? If so, what kind was it? A temple, or just an RP'd building that has no game-mechanics significance?
Or a shrine?
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Well, there is the Colossus of Mendicant in the Palais, if idolatry is your game, or the multistory fountain complex gardens in the Palais, if sacred groves are your deal, or then there is the Throne Room if magnificent temples and prostration gets your religious juices flowing, then we have things like the Joyeuse (coronation sword) if holy relics is what you're looking for, then there is the Imperial War Pyramid, which can only be considered a mobile shrine to the majesty of the High Sovereign.
But for actual temples/shrines built using in game mechanics, yeah we haven't so much... done that. At best we've tolerated the temple in Panabuk without persecuting it.
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Well, there is the Colossus of Mendicant in the Palais, if idolatry is your game, or the multistory fountain complex gardens in the Palais, if sacred groves are your deal, or then there is the Throne Room if magnificent temples and prostration gets your religious juices flowing, then we have things like the Joyeuse (coronation sword) if holy relics is what you're looking for, then there is the Imperial War Pyramid, which can only be considered a mobile shrine to the majesty of the High Sovereign.
But for actual temples/shrines built using in game mechanics, yeah we haven't so much... done that. At best we've tolerated the temple in Panabuk without persecuting it.
Still not sure why you guys aren't making this into an IG religion... Seems like it would be pretty boss.
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Probably don't want to distract people with it. Also you will lose nobles as some will choose to become priests.
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I was tempted, but we've never had the time, or the gold, from constant military expeditions to take/keep/protect the Madina duchy, which as soon as that ended we started fighting Barca. And we're constantly spending every gold piece we get on infrastructure or our armies, maintaining/recruiting an army of the size we keep takes a lot of coin, and Mendicant cares a lot more about having an army to defend Aurvandilan interests against the power blocs that surround him than having a load of priests dote on his majesty.
But another reason as Zakilevo said is that we'd lose Chevaliers to priesthood, and Mendicant doesn't like people who shirk their military dues to the realm.
Though I've entertained the notion of a string of roleplays where Mendicant later declares himself to be a God later in his political career. Or even a Futurama style Amalgamated Church, where we believe everything so long as you believe in Mendicant.
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So... what religious buildings *are* allowed in Aurvandil?
Well, there is the Colossus of Mendicant in the Palais, if idolatry is your game, or the multistory fountain complex gardens in the Palais, if sacred groves are your deal, or then there is the Throne Room if magnificent temples and prostration gets your religious juices flowing, then we have things like the Joyeuse (coronation sword) if holy relics is what you're looking for, then there is the Imperial War Pyramid, which can only be considered a mobile shrine to the majesty of the High Sovereign.
But for actual temples/shrines built using in game mechanics, yeah we haven't so much... done that. At best we've tolerated the temple in Panabuk without persecuting it.
So only stuff about Mendicant/Monarchism/Religion-but-we-aren't-going-to-make-it-because-then-there-will-be-less-warriors is allowed in other words.
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I was tempted, but we've never had the time, or the gold, from constant military expeditions to take/keep/protect the Madina duchy, which as soon as that ended we started fighting Barca. And we're constantly spending every gold piece we get on infrastructure or our armies, maintaining/recruiting an army of the size we keep takes a lot of coin, and Mendicant cares a lot more about having an army to defend Aurvandilan interests against the power blocs that surround him than having a load of priests dote on his majesty.
But another reason as Zakilevo said is that we'd lose Chevaliers to priesthood, and Mendicant doesn't like people who shirk their military dues to the realm.
Though I've entertained the notion of a string of roleplays where Mendicant later declares himself to be a God later in his political career.
A mad king coming soon? :)
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So only stuff about Mendicant/Monarchism/Religion-but-we-aren't-going-to-make-it-because-then-there-will-be-less-warriors is allowed in other words.
No, that isn't why.
There are multiple reasons behind it, not just because there will be less warriors. For a start we already have some decent enough cult of personality/hero worship/imperial cult/cult of reason stuff going on and we don't have the RP basis to start a religion just yet, not to mention the fact Aurvandil doesn't have the time or resources to create a new religion, and if we made a religion now, it'd seem too much like we were just trying to keep people quiet on the forums, or to try and avert a religious war (which I bet would happen anyway if we made a cult around Mendicant). I haven't ruled out the possibility of a religion in the future, but we have to build up suitably towards it first.
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A mad king coming soon? :)
Mad?
Think Tiberius/Nero mad. But this would all be in the works for later.
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Mad?
Think Tiberius/Nero mad. But this would all be in the works for later.
That is still quite mad :)
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A mad king coming soon? :)
No wonder Glaumring likes him.
Think Tiberius/Nero mad. But this would all be in the works for later.
Ozymandias. ;)
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Great minds think alike... 8)
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I think if Medicant ever dies/leaves his successor would HAVE to make him into a religous figure. Anyways, I would 100% support a medicant central religion as drage has became quite infatuated with the whole Aurvandil/monarchism thing. Being in/ around Aurvandil is so interesting right now i just don't see how the northerners can keep away!
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Great minds think alike... 8)
Or in this case, crazy arrogant minds think alike.
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The arrogance perceived as weakness by others is a show, it is the plummage a peacock wears to discern who is capable of understanding complex signals and those who are blinded by its show...
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The arrogance perceived as weakness by others is a show, it is the plummage a peacock wears to discern who is capable of understanding complex signals and those who are blinded by its show...
Weakness, maybe since it annoys people. You saying this just shows that you are arrogant.
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Aurvandil, in it's time has closed a single religious building, and that was done against the instruction of Mendicant,
2012-06-28 18:23:12 Lucius Domitius, Margrave of Madina has closed down your small temple in his region, and taken the 4 gold stored in its treasury.
1 gold were saved by loyal servants and added to the global treasury.
2012-01-09 18:22:17 Frederick Bickerstaff, Senator of Celtiberia has closed down your small shack in his region, and taken the 57 gold stored in its treasury.
1 gold were saved by loyal servants and added to the global treasury.
You were saying? I don't have any information about Triunist or SA temples.
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*realizes that Mendicant sees himself as standard-bearer for the League*
*feels idiotic for not realizing this before*
*desperately wishes he'd thought of it ICly or had a plausible way of figuring it out*
*facepalms*
Anyways, Allison Kabrinski just left Terran to join Aurvandil... so we may either get to witness the Ultimate Showdown of Ego... or else we may have just created a monster, a horrible, terrifying monster.
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She said she was just passing through to get to the lurias so i doubt it/
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Weakness, maybe since it annoys people. You saying this just shows that you are arrogant.
And you blind...
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Don't make me get the hose!
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She said she was just passing through to get to the lurias so i doubt it/
Why does she need to join Aurvandil to get to the Lurias?
Why does one need to go through Aurvandil at all, when you're in/around Terran, to get to the Lurias? It can't be shorter than just going across the Dragon Isles can it?
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2012-06-28 18:23:12 Lucius Domitius, Margrave of Madina has closed down your small temple in his region, and taken the 4 gold stored in its treasury.
1 gold were saved by loyal servants and added to the global treasury.
2012-01-09 18:22:17 Frederick Bickerstaff, Senator of Celtiberia has closed down your small shack in his region, and taken the 57 gold stored in its treasury.
1 gold were saved by loyal servants and added to the global treasury.
You were saying? I don't have any information about Triunist or SA temples.
What was I saying? Only one temple has been destroyed in Aurvandil, that second temple in Celtiberia was destroyed when it was in Barca, not Aurv.
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She said she was just passing through to get to the lurias so i doubt it/
Circumvention of game mechanics (specifically, avoiding chance of capture by realm at war with your previous realm)
False oath
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I keep hearing "u mad bro" when someone mentions "mad king".
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Circumvention of game mechanics (specifically, avoiding chance of capture by realm at war with your previous realm)
The Judge of Aurvandil can ban her easily now, which will kick her out of the realm before she can travel through it. Then she can get caught as a previously banned character and therefore executed (I think, or is that only for infils?). In any way, the character is at more risk now than previously.
False oath
The day we forbid lying in Battlemaster is the day Battlemaster dies.
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Circumvention of game mechanics (specifically, avoiding chance of capture by realm at war with your previous realm)
False oath
God, you love trying to stick people on Game Mech points don't you.
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What you do is ban, arrest, execute. Would be a very comical thing to see, due to her ego. From what I have heard about Dwilight, though, she makes things I retesting. Might make for a showdown with SA though.
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What you do is ban, arrest, execute. Would be a very comical thing to see, due to her ego. From what I have heard about Dwilight, though, she makes things I retesting. Might make for a showdown with SA though.
Unless I am wrong Allison can't be executed and I am not even sure she can be deported since she is a priest, so torture is the way to go.
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Circumvention of game mechanics (specifically, avoiding chance of capture by realm at war with your previous realm)
False oath
If there's an open estate there is no oath, not implicit, not explicit. One of the features of the new estate system.
By joining the realm Allison opens herself up to even more potential problems: Bans, fines, arrest, than if she just joined some realm not at war and passed through unharassed.
Call it what you will, to me, it makes things interesting. Allison has no love for the Moot, maybe she will use this war to get back at them like she couldn't in Kabrinskia.
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Unless I am wrong Allison can't be executed and I am not even sure she can be deported since she is a priest, so torture is the way to go.
Anyone with a ban can be executed if they end up in the banning realm's prisons.
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God, you love trying to stick people on Game Mech points don't you.
This is dwilight, we are supposed to behave as medieval nobles would. Would a medieval noble take an estate in an enemy realm, just so that they could travel through to a different realm?
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Circumvention of game mechanics (specifically, avoiding chance of capture by realm at war with your previous realm)
False oath
False oath yes, cheating no.
Anyone with a ban can be executed if they end up in the banning realm's prisons.
Unless I'm the judge.. On my old account I managed about 8 failed executions in a week... when I was trying to execute nine adventurers
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Unless I'm the judge.. On my old account I managed about 8 failed executions in a week... when I was trying to execute nine adventurers
The only time I ever tried to execute someone, he got away.
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The only time I ever tried to execute someone, he got away.
Eek Mugurk, worst judge of all time.
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What you do is ban, arrest, execute. Would be a very comical thing to see, due to her ego. From what I have heard about Dwilight, though, she makes things I retesting. Might make for a showdown with SA though.
I've wondered if dustole is just looking to retire Allison, and decided this was a more interesting way.
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I've wondered if dustole is just looking to retire Allison, and decided this was a more interesting way.
Ive already done so much with Allison that Ive gotta try and do more/better! One day she will bite off more than she can handle...
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Ive already done so much with Allison that Ive gotta try and do more/better! One day she will bite off more than she can handle...
You should try it some time... 8)
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I've wondered if dustole is just looking to retire Allison, and decided this was a more interesting way.
He's already retired her once. She came back younger and full of vinegar though.
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He's already retired her once. She came back younger and full of vinegar though.
Younger? She is almost 50
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Total GILF though.
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Younger? She is almost 50
And this is your second account with her, no? She was already into her 40's if not older when you deleted and recreated.
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Ah, the spring/button of eternal youth.
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Wait, we can do that? I could have sworn that was explicitly against the rules?
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Wait, we can do that? I could have sworn that was explicitly against the rules?
It's definitely not kosher. That was done before the cold storage option existed however, back then if you paused a character you had one less character to play with, period, so most character would be deleted if you did not intend to play them on.
And Allison didn't gain 15 years through that - 5 maybe? She was recreated at the oldest age you can create a character.
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Ah, so we could RP her as an impostor?
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Ah, so we could RP her as an impostor?
That was long ago. Most of the things you think about when you think about Allison happened after. But yes, you could RP that she's not really the widow of Deverka, if you remember Deverka.
Dustole should confirm, but I think it was slightly before she drilled a hole in her head.
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That was long ago. Most of the things you think about when you think about Allison happened after. But yes, you could RP that she's not really the widow of Deverka, if you remember Deverka.
Dustole should confirm, but I think it was slightly before she drilled a hole in her head.
It was long long ago. Back when Aquilegia had Twinblade and his multi accounts. I got frustrated and deleted my whole account.
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Dustole should confirm, but I think it was slightly before she drilled a hole in her head.
Pretty sure it was after, I remember that's how some characters were identifying her as the true Allison.
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Ah, so we could RP her as an impostor?
This was tried and failed. Enough people went along with it. I believe the official story was that she was kidnapped by pirates and the sea breeze did wonders for her complexion. Additionally many characters came forward to vouch for her person, identifying her by the hole in her head.
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Yes, she was able to get away with it. Most of the times I have seen people do this, they are allowed to continue as if nothing happened. I have seen a few very bad cases of it, that generated a LOT of hard feelings on both sides of the debate.
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It was a dark BM time for me. Not something I am proud of. I felt a little better when we found out way later that Twinblade was cheating. It was like 3 years ago so I dont remember all the details.