Author Topic: Fake religion  (Read 18597 times)

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Fake religion
« Topic Start: July 10, 2012, 10:05:05 PM »
Summary:Fake religion
Violation:Abuse of game mechanics
World:Colonies
Complainer:Aaron Champion
About:Cleatus

Full Complaint Text:
This was first brought forward by egamma six months ago, but I also just noticed it. The following is from the temple signs for the Path of Chivalry, in Oritolon on the Colonies:

"You have reached the medium temple of the order "The Path Of Chivalry". There is a sign next to the entrance reading:
The Path Of Chivalry
The first organization of Oritolon, we are not what you might call a true religion.  
The path of chivalry offers protection from enemy religions while supporting the beliefs of power and goodness in Oritolon"

It immediately states that it is not a religion in keeping with the intent of the feature, but a shell designed to protect the realm from other religions. It should also be noted that the only illegal act in the realm is to found a religion. Everything else is legal.


Tom

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Re: Fake religion
« Reply #2: July 11, 2012, 12:08:49 AM »
I fail to see which IR or paragraph of the social contract it violates.


Anaris

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Re: Fake religion
« Reply #3: July 11, 2012, 12:13:11 AM »
I fail to see which IR or paragraph of the social contract it violates.

All right, then, would you say this is something that can only be handled by players?

Because we've already seen a broad, enduring willingness by players to just accept religions with no purpose other than to support their realm, because, well, why the hell not? It supports us after all, why would we want to change it?

Declaring yourself atheist doesn't violate the IRs or the Social Contract, either, and you've made some very firm statements on that in the past. I don't really see this as significantly different.
Timothy Collett

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Tom

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Re: Fake religion
« Reply #4: July 11, 2012, 01:02:03 AM »
I didn't say it is fine. But it is not a Magistrate matter, because the focus of the Magistrates has been clearly defined.


Blue Star

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Re: Fake religion
« Reply #5: July 11, 2012, 01:09:46 AM »
Just a quick question.

Are nobles atheist until they pick a religion or are they pagan worshipers until they pic a specific one? Just popped up ::)
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Norrel

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Re: Fake religion
« Reply #6: July 11, 2012, 01:18:47 AM »
Just a quick question.

Are nobles atheist until they pick a religion or are they pagan worshipers until they pic a specific one? Just popped up ::)

As far as I understand it, you are either agnostic, not in the sense of "I don't know if god exists" but "I don't know WHICH god(s) exist", or a pagan.
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Vellos

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Re: Fake religion
« Reply #7: July 11, 2012, 01:32:37 AM »
If the Magistrates are not to handle this themselves, Tom, then we need guidance on who should.

This case' verdict should set the precedent for how to handle these cases. Do we toss'em to you without recommendation? Titans? Do we make a recommendation? Do we just ignore them?
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Anaris

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Re: Fake religion
« Reply #8: July 11, 2012, 01:35:08 AM »
Just a quick question.

Are nobles atheist until they pick a religion or are they pagan worshipers until they pic a specific one? Just popped up ::)

No noble is atheist. Period.

Nobles who do not belong to a game-recognized religion are considered "pagan".  This doesn't mean the same thing as the modern meaning of "pagan": it simply means that...they do not belong to a game-recognized religion. They could be searching for a faith, they could be devout followers of a religion that doesn't happen to have been founded on their continent, they could be not-especially-religious people (who still believe in stuff they were raised with, just don't focus too much on it)....there are many different things they could be.

Just...not atheist.
Timothy Collett

"The only thing you can't trade for your heart's desire...is your heart." "You are what you do.  Choose again, and change." "One of these days, someone's gonna plug you, and you're going to die saying, 'What did I say? What did I say?'"  ~ Miles Naismith Vorkosigan

Ketchum

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Re: Fake religion
« Reply #9: July 11, 2012, 02:50:41 AM »
As my character May is a priestess in this religion, here's the Battlemaster Wikipedia link about how this religion is founded.

Hope this information helpful.

http://wiki.battlemaster.org/wiki/The_Path_of_Chivalry
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egamma

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Re: Fake religion
« Reply #10: July 11, 2012, 04:33:02 AM »
It's humanistic tolerant postmodernism, with a good dash of "we founded this to keep out the influence of enemy priests" as the real reason. Definitely not medieval, or really anything other than a veneer over an abuse of game mechanics.

Vellos

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Re: Fake religion
« Reply #11: July 11, 2012, 04:42:50 AM »
It's humanistic tolerant postmodernism, with a good dash of "we founded this to keep out the influence of enemy priests" as the real reason. Definitely not medieval, or really anything other than a veneer over an abuse of game mechanics.

Be that as it may, the serious question here is whether this is within the Magistrates' jurisdiction. If it's not, we need to figure out whose jurisdiction it is.
"A neutral humanism is either a pedantic artifice or a prologue to the inhuman." - George Steiner

egamma

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Re: Fake religion
« Reply #12: July 11, 2012, 04:49:25 AM »
I guess the question is, who enforces Tom's Position on Atheism?

Draco Tanos

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Re: Fake religion
« Reply #13: July 11, 2012, 04:55:29 AM »
Reading Tom's position there, the current situation in the Colonies WOULD seem to be an IR violation because a false/faithless religion is a ruler-enforced monopoly which prevents real religions (in conjunction with realm law) from being formed and therefore limits both fun and creativity.

Indirik

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Re: Fake religion
« Reply #14: July 11, 2012, 05:36:20 AM »
Two things:
1) this isn't atheism, so that really doesn't apply here.

2) forbidding the formation of new religions is not against the rules. Nor is there any rule preventing a realm or religion from monopolizing the realm/area. There is an IC law specifically allowing realms to forbid the formation okf new religions. How is using it in any way an IR violation? The IRs are fairly well-defined. Which rule exactly do you think this breaks?
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