Knight and Lord Relationship

[vonGenf]

Yeah, the whole thing is that we need to have a balance between it being good to have knights and it being a disaster to not having any because sometimes there just aren't any around.

The current setting is a good balance in my opinion. I have yet to see knights having problems finding good estates. Does that occur somewhere?

[Norrel]

I like the current system. It does provide a balance; the fact that lords must, by definition, be generous to their knights means that a relationship of some sort has to form.

[Tan dSerrai]

Some ideas:

1) Have the income of wild lands and untaken estates go to the /ruler/ directly. Possibly even reduce the income of those parts from 50% to 33%. This way, a regionlord does have an interest to gain knights - it gives him additional gold via the lord share /and/ he has indirect command of the income of the knight. In addition, this also encourages the dukes to pressure their lords to gain knights....as the unclaimed income would otherwise leave their duchy.

2) Strengthen feudal oaths. I would love to see that, but have no clearcut idea on how that might be achieved. Basically it should be in the interest of a lod to have knights, hopefully not only via gaining more income but by increasing his /power/. One idea would be to base voting power (somehow...) on (controlled) land, giving each knights vote the weight depending on his controlled land, each lord the weight for himself and his knights and the dukes the weight of their combined lords. Some kind of balance between gold (cities/townslands) and rurals (food) would need to be found.

[Telrunya]

Representative Referendums are already there for Lords and Dukes, but it disallows the rest of Nobility to vote directly. Still, that can be used more. Or perhaps we need some system where all of Nobility gets to vote, but Lord and Dukes get more votes dependent on the amount of Knights in their region.

I do believe perhaps open estates or wild lands should give no tax income (Or go to the Ruler with a hefty penalty, though that might make Rulers very very rich), so a Knight actually benefits the Lord. Though, that may introduce balance issues, I don't know.

[egamma]

Some ideas:

1) Have the income of wild lands and untaken estates go to the /ruler/ directly. Possibly even reduce the income of those parts from 50% to 33%. This way, a regionlord does have an interest to gain knights - it gives him additional gold via the lord share /and/ he has indirect command of the income of the knight. In addition, this also encourages the dukes to pressure their lords to gain knights....as the unclaimed income would otherwise leave their duchy.

2) Strengthen feudal oaths. I would love to see that, but have no clearcut idea on how that might be achieved. Basically it should be in the interest of a lod to have knights, hopefully not only via gaining more income but by increasing his /power/. One idea would be to base voting power (somehow...) on (controlled) land, giving each knights vote the weight depending on his controlled land, each lord the weight for himself and his knights and the dukes the weight of their combined lords. Some kind of balance between gold (cities/townslands) and rurals (food) would need to be found.

Basically, you want to throw out the new estates and go back to the old estates.

[Gustav Kuriga]

Uhm... I don't see how that's going back to the old estates... well, not entirely anyways.

[fodder]

Representative Referendums are already there for Lords and Dukes, but it disallows the rest of Nobility to vote directly. Still, that can be used more. Or perhaps we need some system where all of Nobility gets to vote, but Lord and Dukes get more votes dependent on the amount of Knights in their region.

thought the whole point of representative election is that the knights are supposed to make their own views known to the lord. (which they of course never do). and lords their duke. heck... the old madina electoral system was basically that.. done manually!


i don't think taxes going to ruler make any sense at all, nor 0 tax. seeing as all those other ideas about buildings in estates and what not are not in... it's hard to say if their addition won't make knights more attractive to a lord.

at the end of the day, i don't think any realms i play in are actually flooding in knights. in my relatively rich region in bt, a knight vacated the estate after being made a lord. i offered to either leave that estate as it is for someone to take up or split into 2 (will still have income that's a lot more than most of the other low pop regions) no one took up either offer, so estate is gone. of course, people still like to ask treasury for gold instead.

so why should a lord get penalised if people like to get little income elsewhere and then ask for gold? (that said... my region doesn't have wild lands or empty estates)

[egamma]

Decrease efficiency of lord's estate, so that instead of it being 100% efficient at 20%, it's 100% efficient at 10% and 70% efficient at 20%. Lords really shouldn't have estates, they should just have knights and tax them instead.

[Tom]

Decrease efficiency of lord's estate, so that instead of it being 100% efficient at 20%, it's 100% efficient at 10% and 70% efficient at 20%. Lords really shouldn't have estates, they should just have knights and tax them instead.

Wrong. Lords should have estates.

[De-Legro]

Decrease efficiency of lord's estate, so that instead of it being 100% efficient at 20%, it's 100% efficient at 10% and 70% efficient at 20%. Lords really shouldn't have estates, they should just have knights and tax them instead.

What possible logic could exist for a powerful land owner NOT to have an estate? I've got all this land, but bugger owning a Manor House I would much rather sleep on the streets?

[Zakilevo]

How about increasing the tax rate cap? Each knight you have, you can tax your region higher by 1 more percent?

[Tom]

How about increasing the tax rate cap? Each knight you have, you can tax your region higher by 1 more percent?

We have things like that partially implemented, partially planned, partially in the idea stage. But there is a LOT of work still left on ongoing code changes, so everything takes a while.

[Eldargard]

If I understand things right, if a region makes 100 gold, and a night has a 50% estate, he gets 50 gold initially. Then comes the lords tax. Perhaps something similar can happen with food?

1 - If a region generates 100 food, and a night has a 50% estate, the region lord has to pay the night for 50% of the food. The night sets the price in his estate settings or some such. Earnings are taxed by the lord.

2 - If a knight has a 50% estate he receives 50% of the gold made from food sales. The resulting sum is subject to lords tax.

Both ideas are admittedly rough. I think the second idea might be better due to simplicity and it seems fairly automatic.

[fodder]

um.. food gets complicated... because if a knight gets food to sell, does that mean he'll have to feed his own peasant?

ie.. in townslands/cities/etc... they'll have to pay for food to feed their peasants.

[Eldargard]

I think it would be better if the knight simply somehow received a proportional share of the money earned from food sales. Not sure how though...