"Normal" Tax Rates

[Indirik]

Yes, high taxes can cause production drops.

It gets even worse as you go higher. You haven't hit the rough spot yet.

[Dante Silverfire]

Yes, high taxes can cause production drops.

It gets even worse as you go higher. You haven't hit the rough spot yet.

How is it then that some people have claimed to have maintained such high tax rates? If it drops your production, it doesn't matter if you can maintain morale. You're still making it worse by having a higher tax rate than a lower one.

[Anaris]

Because they have regions in very good circumstances (eg, capital of a small realm) and believe that it's not only acceptable, but normal, for the Lord to sit in his region holding court, doing police/civil work, and surveying the administration constantly. (And consequently, they have very high bureaucracy skills.)

Then they assume that everyone can run tax rates like this, and claim that anyone who's running "only" 18% is a wimp who's obviously just wasting money, because 25% is the tax rate you're "supposed" to be running. 

[Dante Silverfire]

Because they have regions in very good circumstances (eg, capital of a small realm) and believe that it's not only acceptable, but normal, for the Lord to sit in his region holding court, doing police/civil work, and surveying the administration constantly. (And consequently, they have very high bureaucracy skills.)

Then they assume that everyone can run tax rates like this, and claim that anyone who's running "only" 18% is a wimp who's obviously just wasting money, because 25% is the tax rate you're "supposed" to be running. 

Huh.

I was going to say, that since I'm not a courtier, that essentially it is impossible for me to run a tax rate that causes production to drop, because I have no way to restore it effectively. I can hold constant courts but that won't make any difference on the production.

By the way, are the only things that effect the region stats, the stuff that is listed on the daily region report? In other words, are the green, white, and red reports the only things I can adjust to make a higher tax rate easier to maintain?

[Bael]

Yeah, I'm running 22% on Beluaterra on the opposite side of the realm to the capital. It takes quite a bit of work!

[Anaris]

By the way, are the only things that effect the region stats, the stuff that is listed on the daily region report? In other words, are the green, white, and red reports the only things I can adjust to make a higher tax rate easier to maintain?

I believe that the most appropriate answer would be, "No, but the other stuff is harder for you to adjust."

[Kwanstein]

Because they have regions in very good circumstances (eg, capital of a small realm) and believe that it's not only acceptable, but normal, for the Lord to sit in his region holding court, doing police/civil work, and surveying the administration constantly. (And consequently, they have very high bureaucracy skills.)

Then they assume that everyone can run tax rates like this, and claim that anyone who's running "only" 18% is a wimp who's obviously just wasting money, because 25% is the tax rate you're "supposed" to be running. 

No one said or believes that.

[Penchant]

No one said or believes that.

It seems like you imply it quite a bit.

[Kwanstein]

Can you give an example of me, or anyone else, 'implying' that "it's not only acceptable, but normal, for the Lord to sit in his region holding court, doing police/civil work, and surveying the administration constantly." or that "they assume that everyone can run tax rates like this, and claim that anyone who's running "only" 18% is a wimp who's obviously just wasting money, because 25% is the tax rate you're "supposed" to be running."

[Penchant]

Can you give an example of me, or anyone else, 'implying' that "it's not only acceptable, but normal, for the Lord to sit in his region holding court, doing police/civil work, and surveying the administration constantly." or that "they assume that everyone can run tax rates like this, and claim that anyone who's running "only" 18% is a wimp who's obviously just wasting money, because 25% is the tax rate you're "supposed" to be running."

I can see the necessity for one or two thousand CS of militia, but that by itself wouldn't eat up all of the free tax gold. Even a major city like Golden Farrow requires only one hundred food a day. It would cost three hundred-fifty gold per week to feed it's population. Meanwhile, it produces a gross two thousand gold per day. Even assuming a very modest tax rate of 15%, the city would yield 1,995 gold per week. Deduct the militia and infrastructure payments, which, given two thousand militia, should amount to no more than three hundred gold -- less than two hundred in most circumstances -- and you have 1,695 to be distributed amongst the Patron and his men. The Patron himself, through his estate and vessel taxes, could make away with at least 25%, if he was feeling generous, or upwards to 60% of it if he was not. Let's assume that he is neither generous nor greedy and so makes away with 40%, that gives him a personal salary of 678, of which three hundred-fifty would go towards food (assuming the food is premium price), giving him 328, after all is said and done with. This is a decent amount for a Lord who runs his region sub-optimally, for, as I explained in another thread, through truly exploitative measures you could wring far, far more gold out of a city than even this. Furthermore, this is discounting the duchy tax income. Still, even without it, even with the sub-optimal administration, the idea that food is costing city Lords their livelihood is exaggerated. If a city Lord is spending more than he makes then he can owe it entirely to his inefficient administration, because it is well within the realms of possibility for him to turn a profit, a much larger profit than even a rural Lord is capable of.

I can look for a post that implies it better if you would like.

[Kwanstein]

What, specifically, is that post meant to indict me of?

[Anaris]

No one said or believes that.

This is untrue.

Your views are on this spectrum, but do not seem to go this far. However, I have seen those who have. Less so in recent times—such extremes may not have been seen since the forum started; I'm not sure.

But I'm not trying to indict you with anything, and for you to claim that "no one believes that" is something of an extraordinary claim. That requires extraordinary evidence.

[Kwanstein]

You made the claim, not I, the burden of evidence is on you.

[Lorgan]

Oh I've definitely said it at one time or another. Thing is though, I very much enjoy playing such a character. If you don't want to play like that, that's your right and the game is better for you playing exactly how you want to play.
But if I'm the one appointing you to a city, I'm going to expect to see you raking in that gold and I likely will go for a candidate who will do exactly that.

[Kwanstein]

Okay, that perspective I can buy. Originally, I couldn't see how Anaris's comment wasn't a strawman of my own posts, as I couldn't see what else he could be referencing, but now I see I was wrong.