Secession and pledging - Capitals / Last cities

[Indirik]

Hrrmm.... Not sure. If it's not a city/stronghold, then it may be possible.

[Scarlett]

The button says 'You cannot give you capital away, silly.'

Sorry, I misunderstood your 'manual process' - I thought you meant that the ruler could do something about this situation that the Duke couldn't.

[Anaris]

No, he was talking about capital moves. You can move the capital to another city or stronghold manually, and it costs money and hurts the realm.

[Indirik]

Sorry, the capital move thing I posted was a response to this from Penchant:

I was worried that if Aurvandil went through with a TO of the Chateau that somehow the Capital might shift to Shokalom

If your capital is ever lost, whether it revolts, is TOd, or changes to another realm via lord/duke move, then your ruler must move it manually to another city/stronghold by going there and paying the gold to do it. The game will never just declare another of your cities/strongholds the capital for you.

[Vellos]

The button says 'You cannot give you capital away, silly.'

Sorry, I misunderstood your 'manual process' - I thought you meant that the ruler could do something about this situation that the Duke couldn't.

If Aurvandil TO'd the chateau, you could probably hand over the other regions.

[Perth]

Sorry, the capital move thing I posted was a response to this from Penchant:
If your capital is ever lost, whether it revolts, is TOd, or changes to another realm via lord/duke move, then your ruler must move it manually to another city/stronghold by going there and paying the gold to do it. The game will never just declare another of your cities/strongholds the capital for you.

Good to know.

[Scarlett]

Another gamey aspect of this system:

When in its last throes, you have government elections where 1-2 people vote.

The ruler (which by chance ended up being me - 3 candidates, 3 votes) of course cannot change his own allegiance, so I have to step down. Because I've only been ruler for a short time, the cost is 5 prestige and 24 honor.

A previous ruler who went off the deep end and was protested out of office lost less than this.

[Astinus]

If Aurvandil TO'd the chateau, you could probably hand over the other regions.

Which is quite unlikely to happen any time soon

[Penchant]

Another gamey aspect of this system:

When in its last throes, you have government elections where 1-2 people vote.

The ruler (which by chance ended up being me - 3 candidates, 3 votes) of course cannot change his own allegiance, so I have to step down. Because I've only been ruler for a short time, the cost is 5 prestige and 24 honor.

A previous ruler who went off the deep end and was protested out of office lost less than this.

Its extremely dishonorable and frowned upon to get yourself elected and then give up in the first week. That is not gamey, that makes complete sense. Give it a bit more time and it will drop down a fair amount I believe.

[Indirik]

The ruler (which by chance ended up being me - 3 candidates, 3 votes) of course cannot change his own allegiance, so I have to step down. Because I've only been ruler for a short time, the cost is 5 prestige and 24 honor.

If you didn't want to be the ruler, why did you run in the elections?

[Penchant]

If you didn't want to be the ruler, why did you run in the elections?

"So I could change stuff related to the government that makes things easier for me, then switch realms."

[Scarlett]

If you didn't want to be the ruler, why did you run in the elections?

There is no opposition, no loyalist faction wanting to continue. There couldn't be: every region lord and Duke either has abandoned or wants to abandon the flag. There wasn't an 'election,' there were three nobles who each voted for themselves and I got randomly chosen. It's not even explicable ICly.

The only reason I ran at all was because I thought I might be able to speed up handing over perhaps one region, but the reference point here is that the entire government is a farce. The realm has four people. You are talking about my making 'gamey' moves when the only reason the realm still exists is to satisfy a game mechanic that is wildly inappropriate for this particular situation.

"So I could change stuff related to the government that makes things easier for me, then switch realms."

I don't know what you're talking about. There is nothing about being the ruler that has made anything easier for me.

[Indirik]

There is no opposition, no loyalist faction wanting to continue. There couldn't be: every region lord and Duke either has abandoned or wants to abandon the flag. There wasn't an 'election,' there were three nobles who each voted for themselves and I got randomly chosen. It's not even explicable ICly.

You had to click the link to run in the election. You had to say, at least to yourself, "I want to win this election." If you didn't want to be ruler of the realm, then *don't click the link*. Clicking the link to run in the election, and then complain about what happens when you win is... ridiculous.

[Scarlett]

No, I said to myself 'If somebody else, like Kas, wins the election and starts pushing every button they can, they can probably tie up this process with more game mechanic bull!@#$. Or maybe he'll write a letter to a GM NPC faction and get them to invade a realm that doesn't exist anymore.'

Oh wait, he did!

Quintus Scarlett is not the ruler of Terran. There is no ruler of Terran just like there is no Terran. This is not some fluffy roleplay-only event I am talking about: every single Duke and Lord of the realm up and left the realm except the one guy who can't (me) and is stuck holding the bag and dealing with last throes.

Do you seriously imagine that I of all people am sore because my IC plans got derailed? I already have a great realm that I made and enjoy. I don't need another. I was just playing along and the way the dominoes fell, I got left with the mopping up. I'm telling you that the way you the game handles this has no correlation at all to what is actually happening in character and you are inventing some abstract realm where there are still lords and politics and gears of government turning when that just isn't happening here.

As for ridiculous: if you think it's more dishonorable to step down after a couple days of mopping up a dead realm than tor have two dozen nobles protest you out office after you went bananas on the neighboring Daemons, you might have had too much Easter punch.

I tried to communicate this same point back in 2006 and 2007 when a dozen players in my immediate circle all left for the same reason. A dozen may not be a statistically valid sample and you can write me off if you like. It's just a shame, because so much of BM is better than it was back then, and it's better precisely because this kind of thing is now an exception to the rule. But when the game takes over to this extent, you're going to have pissed off players.

Like any other BM player I'm happy to put up with some frustration and inconvenience because the world of what is possible in-character is much larger than the system of game mechanics that has to simulate it all. But the problem you are ostensibly solving with this particular game mechanic seems a lot more trivial than the problems you are creating with the solution.

[Penchant]

Perhaps the mechanic is not the best, but I have yet to read a suggestion from you other than give X person the power to destroy the realm, which is the reason there is this. No one person should be able to destroy the realm regardless of how hopeless the realm is. If you really want Terran to die, tell your vassals to switch to the other realm, then takeover the last region and demand your duchy back within Saffalore.