Perdan vs Caligus and Company

[Indirik]

Following Caligus' surrender announcement on the ruler's channel a few days ago, rumour has it that Perdan & Co. have offered Caligus some exceptionally humiliating terms. I am still trying to get a copy of them IC, so I don't really know myself yet. It wouldn't surprise me, though.

It's a shame, really. We had a brief conversation on the ruler's channel about two or three months ago about how war on the EC has become not so much fun. It's things like this, really, that cause it. War to annihilation, humiliating surrender terms, and pile-on wars like Perdan/Fallangard/Perleone going after Caligus. Sure, Sirion stepped in to help Caligus, but even so the results were mostly foreordained. There's no way Caligus/Sirion were going to be able to stand up to the trio of enemies. Eponllyn joining in to help Caligus (even if we wanted to) would have been suicide.

I wonder if Perdan will intervene in a possibly-soon-to-be-starting Perleone v. Eponllyn war. It's the general assumption that they will. If so, expect Eponllyn to be quickly crushed.

[Ketchum]

Following Caligus' surrender announcement on the ruler's channel a few days ago, rumour has it that Perdan & Co. have offered Caligus some exceptionally humiliating terms. I am still trying to get a copy of them IC, so I don't really know myself yet. It wouldn't surprise me, though.

It's a shame, really. We had a brief conversation on the ruler's channel about two or three months ago about how war on the EC has become not so much fun. It's things like this, really, that cause it. War to annihilation, humiliating surrender terms, and pile-on wars like Perdan/Fallangard/Perleone going after Caligus. Sure, Sirion stepped in to help Caligus, but even so the results were mostly foreordained. There's no way Caligus/Sirion were going to be able to stand up to the trio of enemies. Eponllyn joining in to help Caligus (even if we wanted to) would have been suicide.

I wonder if Perdan will intervene in a possibly-soon-to-be-starting Perleone v. Eponllyn war. It's the general assumption that they will. If so, expect Eponllyn to be quickly crushed.

Yes, it is a shame that this should happen. Well, almost in every realm I joined, there is sort of many realms-to-one realm war. Either we are in the one realm or many realms side. Maybe we can think of giving incentives(in-game advantage) to those realms who joined the war to balance the war out? Good idea, don't you think? 

Back to EC. You know, there are some realms in the north that dont like Perdan, maybe Eponlynn can improve further the relations with the north?

[Bhranthan]

I agree that Perdan has been playing hard, it would be a shame to lsoe Caligus and i hope all is done to restore/keep the realm.
lets hope Perdan will just keep fighting Sirion and let the other realms fight there own wars (Nivemus vs obsidian, Perleone vs Epponllyn, Fallangard vs Caligus, Westmoore and Perdan vs Sirion).
I wouldnt want Perdan to invovle its self in every single war, that would be a shame.
Perdan is simply doing to well at the moment for anyone to have a chance, even in an equal matched war.
I also hope Hostanamir secedes Ubent Duchy and Sirion splits up though(or gets beaten in half).

[Blue Star]

... whining,  . Maybe if Caligus became more dependable and not so flaky like a biscuit it would of had a better chance.

I don't know if many if you realize, but I really want to see Sirion come down and engage Perdan. Caligus has been sulking away since doombringer left, they had a chance to regain their honor and gain land, but refused... better to take out the thorn before it causes a infection than to have to deal with it later.

Go Perdan! Go Sirion!

[Indirik]

In real life that may be true. But not in a game. In a game you want to leave the thorn there, so you have something to fight later. If you keep destroying everyone, and making the were not fun, then players will leave them you won't have anyone to play with anymore.

As far as Sirion goes, they won't fight Perdan now. With Csligus out, the war is over.

[Bhranthan]

As far as Sirion goes, they won't fight Perdan now. With Csligus out, the war is over.

How do you know?
Perdan has been setting up to destroy Sirion even before the Armonian war.
Where do you think the SA is founded for?

Moderator note: Detailed IC plans snipped. --Indirik

I just hope Perdan wont involve its self in everything (Epponlyn vs perleeone for example).
King Nigel just pissed off the south since the begining, probably because they know Perdan will protect them what ever happens.

Moderator note: Please remember to keep detailed, non-public knowledge off the forums. This type of information should remain in-game. --Indirik


EDIT: let me add that i really don't know if those things i wrote here where true, it just seemed most likley.
It was not in my attention to announce facts or "leak" information.

[Blue Star]

In real life that may be true. But not in a game. In a game you want to leave the thorn there, so you have something to fight later. If you keep destroying everyone, and making the were not fun, then players will leave them you won't have anyone to play with anymore.

As far as Sirion goes, they won't fight Perdan now. With Csligus out, the war is over.

That's a very negative view of the situation. Players need to have thicker skin and learn to communicate and fight back in game... instead of coming on these forums and whining about so and so being a realm killer an such. Honestly, players take these things to personal, its a game have fun, if you dislike it be a charismatic leader and make changes.

Caligus issue is they are highly disorganized, lacking leadership, and not stable (plus can do little more than sit in their capital). Also, they refused terms which of course were not completely in their favor, but would helped them into a better situation than they are in currently. Everyone wants to fight to the death instead of take terms, in that case it cannot be helped

[Zakilevo]

Well people will always complain when they lose just like people will boast when they win.

[Indirik]

That's a very negative view of the situation. Players need to have thicker skin and learn to communicate and fight back in game... instead of coming on these forums and whining about so and so being a realm killer an such. Honestly, players take these things to personal, its a game have fun, if you dislike it be a charismatic leader and make changes.

That's easy to say. But glib words don't change reality.

Caligus issue is they are highly disorganized, lacking leadership, and not stable (plus can do little more than sit in their capital). Also, they refused terms which of course were not completely in their favor, but would helped them into a better situation than they are in currently. Everyone wants to fight to the death instead of take terms, in that case it cannot be helped

"not completely in their favor"? The terms were essentially "Be my bitch, and pretend you like it!"

I will agree that too many people want to fight to the death. But at least a part of that is also because the victors often make the terms of surrender too humiliating. Refusal to accept terms of surrender is not always the fault of the loser. If you want people to surrender, then give them an offer that makes surrender palatable.

[Atanamir]

The arguments here are quite funny, since I wrote that Caligus treaty now.
All I can say is that Caligus was offered a treaty which would have made them equal strong in terms of territory and economically even favored them.
They would have just to become the "old" Caligus again, the one before Dobromir ruled for 7 years and made Caligus an elf-loving realm instead of a southern human realm.

It's their decision. Perdan wanted just its old ally back, that's natural.
If that is not possible, then the "new" Caligus must be replaced.
Humiliating terms are something else - like those who got Eponllyn (which I wrote as well) and exiled it into the corner of the map and which again deserved it this way.

And it is laughable that such wars kill EC.
It is the opposite.
We create new realms and replace those which are stuck in their RP because when certain key players leave, the RP never evolves on (e.g. Dobby, Doc etc).

[Zakilevo]

Replace Caligus?

It seems it will become harder to replace realms. We will eventually run into point where simply destroying realms won't get the result we desire.

We are losing people fast. We are down to 867 people. EC has 251 nobles. I don't know how many doubles we have but seeing Perdan, many realms have players with double characters in one realm.

To be honest, I don't mind realms being destroyed and replaced. Eventually, Perdan will not have enough manpower to create another realm while characters from realms they've destroyed will join their enemies to help them grow in size.

Also, it is not like Perdan+allies are outnumbering their enemies. At the moment, Perdan's side has 76 nobles while Caligus' side has 90...

[Indirik]

The arguments here are quite funny, since I wrote that Caligus treaty now.
All I can say is that Caligus was offered a treaty which would have made them equal strong in terms of territory and economically even favored them.

And in the process forced them to turn and attack the only realm that has been a steadfast ally to them for how long now? This is a perfect example of providing a perfect example of a treaty that is so unpalatable that the defeated realm would rather die than agree, Think of how it would be right now if Perdan got beaten so bad by Sirion that the peace treaty Perdan was given was "Give half your land to Eponllyn, then join  us in destroying Westmoor and Perleone. And you have only 2 days to give us your answer." Do you think that Perdan would agree, or would they refuse and choose to die first?

They would have just to become the "old" Caligus again

And maybe that's not what they want to be?

, the one before Dobromir ruled for 7 years and made Caligus

And do you think that anyone on Caligus remembers that time? Maybe one player? Two, tops?

Humiliating terms are something else - like those who got Eponllyn (which I wrote as well) and exiled it into the corner of the map and which again deserved it this way.

Humiliating is whatever the offended party says it is. As a player of a game, you have to realize that, and make some allowances for it. If not, then the other party is free to just up and leave. And then the game has less players.

And it is laughable that such wars kill EC.
It is the opposite.
We create new realms and replace those which are stuck in their RP because when certain key players leave, the RP never evolves on (e.g. Dobby, Doc etc).

Have you looked at our player count lately?
Have you been listening to anything that anyone has been saying on the forums?
Were you on the ruler's channel when all the rulers on EC were complaining about this very thing happening? Oh and look, here it is happening again.

Replace Caligus?

It seems it will become harder to replace realms. We will eventually run into point where simply destroying realms won't get the result we desire.

We past the point where simply destroying a realm and replacing it with a client state was a viable option, a long, long time ago.

We are losing people fast. We are down to 867 people. EC has 251 nobles. I don't know how many doubles we have but seeing Perdan, many realms have players with double characters in one realm.

That is really the way that the powerful realms are operating these days. Doubled-up characters.

To be honest, I don't mind realms being destroyed and replaced.

It's the nature of the game. Realms are destroyed and replaced on a semi-regular basis. Oddly enough, it happens more now that we have a small player base than it did when we had a huge player base. The problem is that we no longer have the players/characters to support it.

Eventually, Perdan will not have enough manpower to create another realm while characters from realms they've destroyed will join their enemies to help them grow in size.

They already don't have the characters to be creating client states. Have you seen how anemic Perleone is? A sizable fraction of those characters are Armonian refugees, too.

Also, it is not like Perdan+allies are outnumbering their enemies. At the moment, Perdan's side has 76 nobles while Caligus' side has 90...

I don't think that the sides are as firmly lined up as you think they are.

[Blue Star]

Indiriki Perdan beaten by Sirion to a pulp. Ha I laugh at that Sirion are isolationist they like their side of the river to much. Beyond those choke points they are not so great. They couldn't save Caligus let alone truly threaten Perdan.

  Yeah yeah, im taunting come elfs come

[De-Legro]

Indiriki Perdan beaten by Sirion to a pulp. Ha I laugh at that Sirion are isolationist they like their side of the river to much. Beyond those choke points they are not so great. They couldn't save Caligus let alone truly threaten Perdan.

  Yeah yeah, im taunting come elfs come

It is a hypothetical, the possibility of it actually occuring is kind of irelevant

And in the process forced them to turn and attack the only realm that has been a steadfast ally to them for how long now? This is a perfect example of providing a perfect example of a treaty that is so unpalatable that the defeated realm would rather die than agree, Think of how it would be right now if Perdan got beaten so bad by Sirion that the peace treaty Perdan was given was "Give half your land to Eponllyn, then join  us in destroying Westmoor and Perleone. And you have only 2 days to give us your answer." Do you think that Perdan would agree, or would they refuse and choose to die first?
And maybe that's not what they want to be?
And do you think that anyone on Caligus remembers that time? Maybe one player? Two, tops?
Humiliating is whatever the offended party says it is. As a player of a game, you have to realize that, and make some allowances for it. If not, then the other party is free to just up and leave. And then the game has less players.
Have you looked at our player count lately?
Have you been listening to anything that anyone has been saying on the forums?
Were you on the ruler's channel when all the rulers on EC were complaining about this very thing happening? Oh and look, here it is happening again.
We past the point where simply destroying a realm and replacing it with a client state was a viable option, a long, long time ago.
That is really the way that the powerful realms are operating these days. Doubled-up characters.
It's the nature of the game. Realms are destroyed and replaced on a semi-regular basis. Oddly enough, it happens more now that we have a small player base than it did when we had a huge player base. The problem is that we no longer have the players/characters to support it.
They already don't have the characters to be creating client states. Have you seen how anemic Perleone is? A sizable fraction of those characters are Armonian refugees, too.
I don't think that the sides are as firmly lined up as you think they are.

As someone that returned to playing the game recently, it seems to me that this is a more recent attitude. Apparently these days "playing like you are playing with friends" includes setting up scenario's that drive said friends away from the game.

[Indirik]

Indiriki Perdan beaten by Sirion to a pulp. Ha I laugh at that Sirion are isolationist they like their side of the river to much. Beyond those choke points they are not so great.

The same could be said of Perdan attacking Sirion. We tried for years, and never could get past their border, with the exception of one or two northern raids that didn't do much.

They couldn't save Caligus let alone truly threaten Perdan.

Of course not. The geography is all wrong.