Author Topic: OOC message to recruit to realm  (Read 12944 times)

Indirik

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #15: July 16, 2013, 11:29:57 PM »
I dislike it because it has an implicit declaration of "this realm sucks, come to Keplerstan, where everything is more fun!"
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Sacha

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #16: July 16, 2013, 11:56:39 PM »
Heh, in many cases it's not even implicit. It's literally "Keplerstan is the most fun, why would you join another realm, they suck!"

Bendix

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #17: July 17, 2013, 12:52:10 AM »
In my opinion, it's a sales pitch regardless of the implications or presentation. Saying 'Hey, come over here if you want to have fun' is what you would call a 'soft sell', but it is a sell nonetheless.

The end result is that players are being rewarded for promoting their realm OOC, and thus those who play strictly IC are being punished for not being more coldly entrepreneurial. It places a higher value on the meta-game, which is something that ought to be discouraged in what is supposed to be primarily a role-playing game.

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #18: July 17, 2013, 01:11:32 AM »
It places a higher value on the meta-game, which is something that ought to be discouraged in what is supposed to be primarily a role-playing game.

You know, that's a wonderful idea, but my gut tells me that there's something wrong with it.

Edit: I know what it is! I'm not my character. Where I place a character is based on the information that I know.
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Bendix

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #19: July 17, 2013, 02:36:50 AM »
You know, that's a wonderful idea, but my gut tells me that there's something wrong with it.

Edit: I know what it is! I'm not my character. Where I place a character is based on the information that I know.

True, but so is every other action you take when actually playing your character, if you think about it. Playing a role in a game is how you interpret the game mechanics as part of the narrative.

I think what your gut is telling you is that it would feel more like an infringement on freedom of speech outside of the game to try and curb OOC recruitment. It's okay to control what characters can say or do in game for the sake of setting and such, and precisely because we are NOT our characters, but when you're controlling how the players themselves can interact it feels different.

Crap. I just basically shot down my own argument, didn't I?

Geronus

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #20: July 17, 2013, 04:08:53 AM »
Crap. I just basically shot down my own argument, didn't I?

 ;D

Sypher

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #21: July 17, 2013, 05:30:37 AM »
I'm don't think these kinds of realm promotions work very well and can backfire by repelling people.

But, to add some additional context, if its from who I think it is then the player who sent the ooc message is relatively new to the game (less than 1 year) and not a native english speaker.

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #22: July 17, 2013, 01:22:30 PM »
I think what your gut is telling you is that it would feel more like an infringement on freedom of speech outside of the game to try and curb OOC recruitment.

That's not it at all. I could care less about "freedom of speech". You have no right to it here. This is not an organization run by the US government, or any other government. In fact (and other devs and magistrates can confirm this if they'd like) I'm typically heavy-handed when it comes to community moderation.

I find it hard to believe that even 1% of players choose a realm for a new character based on only IC information. I've only done it once myself and that was as part of Oligarch's WCC revenge plans. The WCC sure as hell wasn't standard back then and its like is even less common now.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2013, 01:26:16 PM by ^ban^ »
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trying

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #23: July 17, 2013, 02:47:09 PM »
In just about every game you give up your freedom of speech by agreeing to the EULA or whatever it's called.

Miriam Ics

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #24: July 17, 2013, 02:55:16 PM »
What is wrong here, IMO, is to do it OOC. OOC is never good for the game, but sometimes we do.

I think I did this once, to recruit OOC I mean, I can not remember for sure, but certainly did not think I was wrong. Nor do I think it is wrong to recruit the forum or IRC, something that I have already been criticized. For me, this is part of "playing with friends." When you play something you like, you can call your friends to play with you.

I have been watching what is happening. I have seen many old players starting a new account and leaving it a few days later.
I can see a kingdom that strives for good PR and still can not find noble enough to cover the positions.
I've been seeing some players watching everything the others do and criticizing them when they think they did something wrong.

We all are certainly doing something very wrong because our player base decreases noticeably, and if we do not figure out what it is, we will soon be reduced to just a few players who think the same way.

In my opinion, part of the problem is all the written and unwritten rules that appear every day. Tom made few rules deliberately. These few rules worked before, why do more and more?
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Azerax

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #25: July 17, 2013, 04:48:05 PM »
I encourage recruitment posts for the FB page.  There's been a few good 'Knights Wanted' posts in the past.

Bendix

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #26: July 17, 2013, 08:01:41 PM »
In my opinion, part of the problem is all the written and unwritten rules that appear every day. Tom made few rules deliberately. These few rules worked before, why do more and more?

Wait, where do I find the unwritten rules? If there are rules that are not written down that I should know about, please let me know now so I don't break them.

I encourage recruitment posts for the FB page.  There's been a few good 'Knights Wanted' posts in the past.

See, I think that's a more practical and tasteful solution. Putting out a general post saying "Hear ye, hear ye! My Kingdom needs stalwart Knights!" is different from privately trying to sell a new player on your realm.

Vellos

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #27: July 18, 2013, 12:54:13 AM »
I have mixed feelings about OOC recruitment of any kind, IG or OOG. On the one hand, we have a player shortage, and recruiting is how we fix it. On the other hand, I really hate how so much of winning wars these days seems to be OOC recruiting nobles to migrate to your realm. Declare war and BAM, you get a rush of new nobles created, immigrated, etc, as OOC word spreads.

IMHO, this isn't against the rules. It makes sense to do, and I don't think it's particularly harmful to the game. At the same time, I do think it's tasteless, and, personally, I would probably send a private message to the person, politely (emphasis on POLITELY) telling them so.

And can I say...

I've only done it once myself and that was as part of Oligarch's WCC revenge plans. The WCC sure as hell wasn't standard back then and its like is even less common now.

Good times... good times.
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Penchant

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #28: July 18, 2013, 01:47:12 AM »
I think a lot of the problem is in presentation.

The quote in the OP isn't saying, "Hey, guys, it's a lot of fun in Fronen! You should come, too!"

It's saying, "If you want to create an adventurer, create one in Fronen. If you want to create a noble, create one somewhere else, then emigrate it to Fronen. We just started a war." (The implication being, "So we need more people to help fight it.")

Furthermore, it's an IG OOC message. If it were being sent via some OOG channel, I wouldn't think much of it, but this is more like blatant advertisement being pushed in your face.

Rather than a friend simply saying, "Hey, it's fun over here! You should come be here too!", I would characterize it more as being like a billboard being thrust in your face, or a used-car-salesman-type appearing in front of you and shouting, "Hey everybody! Fronen's the place to be! Everyone should be in Fronen! Fronen: The Fun Place™!"

It smacks of advertisement and artificiality, especially because it's being sent to this broad group of (I believe) adventurers.
I disagree with you on quite a bit of that actually.

Adventurer guilds can make being an adventurer much better when they are actually used. If someone were to ask me where to make an adventurer, I would recommend Fissoa, Dwilight. They have the Fissoa Verminators or something like that its called. I am actually not in the guild to help the guild but for some other, unrelated reasons. The letters I receive have shown me it seems that the guild makes being an advy quite a bit better thus it would/could make a difference in choosing where to be an advy.

While you see them mentioning war as them saying they need nobles, I see it very differently. BM can be very hard to have fun without war as a simple knight, which is something I think needs to change, thus if they is war there is a much larger chance of  fun as a simple or new knight.

Overall what I am trying to say is that they are giving reasons why Fronen is fun and not, strangely as you would prefer, just saying the realm is fun which seems more like boring advertisement of Fronen for gain for them then actually trying to help people to find a good realm.

Due to the advy game sometimes having issues with being fun I wouldn't see it as terrible to let some nearby advys (actually probably all they advy's of his realm) that Fronen is a fun a place to play. I can't say I love the idea of the OOC IG recommendations to a group of people (to one person can be a bit different) but I don't think this was so terrible it deserves to be banned in general.

To OOG recruiting, I see nothing wrong with it. I would hope people are recruiting people to realm's they will have fun in meaning I don't care if you are recruiting for your realm but I hope if you are recruiting for your realm, its actually a fun place to be or someone there is working on reviving it. While most recruit for their realms, not everyone does. A couple weeks ago someone was looking for a good realm to join and I convinced them Silnaria would be great for them. Lastly, OOG recruiting on a non-BM thing it is always good if you are recruiting to an actually fun realm while recruiting to a boring realm does hurt BM because they see BM as not fun, thus making them more likely to quit and they chance they discourage others from playing.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2013, 02:08:25 AM by Penchant »
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Bendix

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Re: OOC message to recruit to realm
« Reply #29: July 18, 2013, 05:59:33 AM »
BM can be very hard to have fun without war as a simple knight, which is something I think needs to change

+1