Proposed New Forum Rules of Conduct

[vonGenf]

But do change it into positive, I agree with that comment. Tell people what to do, not what not. It's a fairly simple change - just say "do x" instead of "don't do !x" - but it has a strong effect.

So, e.g., change it to:

1) Be nice to people. No insulting or derogatory behavior toward other players or forum users.

[Buffalkill]

So, e.g., change it to:

1) Be nice to people. No insulting or derogatory behavior toward other players or forum users.

The second sentence is unnecessary.

[Anaris]

The second sentence is unnecessary.

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

But no. No, it's not.

[Buffalkill]

You'd think so, wouldn't you?

But no. No, it's not.

They essentially mean the same thing. If you comply with the first sentence, you'll naturally be in compliance with the second sentence.

[Indirik]

Having it as extra reinforcement is a good thing. Besides, a forum rule of "Be nice" just sounds silly. Like we're begging.

While we are trying to keep the rules simple, we're not trying to achieve the absolute lowest character count possible. A little bit of redundancy and/or clarification is not out of the question.

[egamma]

If someone is an !@#$%^&, they can argue "there's no law saying that I can't be an !@#$%^&".

Or, to put it another way, there's a good reason why the law says "thou shalt not murder". It's a more powerful statement, and more specific, than saying "can't we all get along?"

[Gustav Kuriga]

If someone is an !@#$%^&, they can argue "there's no law saying that I can't be an !@#$%^&".

Or, to put it another way, there's a good reason why the law says "thou shalt not murder". It's a more powerful statement, and more specific, than saying "can't we all get along?"

You know, there's also no specific forum rule about hacking into a players account and posting for them, though I'm sure that'll get you a ban from the forum as well should you get caught.

[Indirik]

Ya gotta love the rules lawyers. :p

[Tom]

Can we get back to a constructive discussion, everyone?


There are two equally valid arguments. Positive wording is better if you want to get people's cooperation. Listing what is forbidden is easier and clearer.

All we need to do is find the correct mix, which parts are better worded with positive phrases and which with proscriptions.

[Buffalkill]

!@#$%^&s will be !@#$%^&s regardless of what the rules say, therefore it's more important to lead by example or, as Gandhi would say, "be the change you want to see in the forum. You'll never eliminate dickishness completely, but generally people will take their cues from others, especially from the mods, the devs, and the boss man. If the rules are written in a hostile tone, people will instinctively get defensive and hostile too. If the rules are written in pseudo-legalese, people will instinctively become lawyers and look for loopholes. But if you address people in a friendly, respectful manner, it becomes harder for them to be an !@#$%^& to you." (he had amazing foresight) Anyway, here's what I propose:

1. Be respectful of other users.


2. The moderators have complete editorial control and may delete or modify postings that go against these rules.


3. The forum is for discussing things about the game. In-game matters should only be discussed in the game. Players may post the RPd death of their character on the Roleplay boards without sending it IG, since they can't post it IG once they're dead.


4. Refrain from posting IG messages other than your own Roleplays to the Roleplay board, except where appropriate as part of a magistrate case, or as allowed under Rule 3.

[Eirikr]

If someone is an !@#$%^&, they can argue "there's no law saying that I can't be an !@#$%^&".

And that's why you just slap them with moderator action (there is supposed to be no initial defense against mods) and call it precedent. Eventually, people will get the picture or continue getting increasing punishments.

I think we all have a fairly similar idea of what we want to accomplish with these rules, it shouldn't be too difficult to stay fairly close to the same thresholds of enforcement.

[Tom]

There's also a long-standing BM rule that rules-lawyers weasling their way around the rules with convulted arguments about how a clear and obvious violation of a rule can be interpreted as not actually being in violation will get the harshest punishments.

The IR page on the wiki even lists that rule explicitly.

[Atanamir]

I think the rules are good. Please delete the word !@#$%^&.
Seriosuly, nobody wants to play a game where rules are written by plebeian rednecks.

I would though add as well a list of possible punishments.
For first offense, repeated offense etc.
Just so people know what they can expect and no discussions afterwards about verdicts start.

[Buffalkill]

Make the rules simple enough that anyone can remember them after one read, then post violating messages on a new board called "Rogue's Gallery" along with how they were resolved, e.g. Mod deleted the post, Mod removed offending language, User was asked to modify the post, User was suspended for egregious violation, User was banned for repeated egregious violations, etc. That way people can objectively see what the boundaries are. Simplicity and clarity.

[Indirik]

Buffalkill had some good points, and his rewrite of the rules is generally a good one. I have taken it and reworded it a bot more. Yes there are a couple spots where it may be redundant, but restating things using different words is not always a bad idea.

1. Be respectful of other users. No insulting or derogatory behavior toward other players or forum users.

2. The moderators have complete editorial control and may delete or modify posts that violate these rules, or are judged inappropriate for the forum.

3. The forum is for discussing things about the game. In-game matters should only be discussed in the game.

4. Do not post in-game messages on the forum, other than posting your own Roleplays on the Roleplay board, or when appropriate as part of a Magistrate case. Players may post the roleplayed death of their character on the Roleplay boards without sending it in-game, since they cannot post it in-game.

I don't feel that a list of possible punishments is appropriate. The actions taken will depend on the nature of the rule-breaking. I don't want someone to start bitching because we slapped him with 20 points instead of only 10.