Author Topic: Leaders of Beluaterra  (Read 25660 times)

Naidraug

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Re: Leaders of Beluaterra
« Reply #60: May 31, 2014, 02:54:10 AM »
So...it totally does have to do with risks being dangerous. Because the realms ruled by people who take those risks? They die. They die, and the realms that are ruled by "safe" rulers survive.

But if you're so sure that this is purely a problem of "culture", what would you propose to change it?

That is one reason I gave up on the rulership of Nothoi. I like to portray my char as one that has lost one realm already (he was in good old Norland) and survived two invasions, and torture by demons.

So yeah, he is going to play safe all the time and try to make all the alliances that he can.

In the end, it was getting to boring, so I stopped being ruler.

He is always going to go against war.

Now the peace treaty is not signed yet because Riombara is voting to aprove it, after a few weeks discussing and a ruler that went silent for a while.
Stryfe Family: Tristan - Heorot/ Scherzer - Nothoi / Finan - Caelum / Arya - Farronite Republic

Indirik

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Re: Leaders of Beluaterra
« Reply #61: May 31, 2014, 03:22:43 AM »
Yes, exactly like what happened with Atamara and CE. I'm sure that's a wonderfully idealist policy you've got there, Indirik, but it doesn't work.
It did. The non-CE realms on AT got together and ganged up on CE&Co to knock them down. Thing is, we sucked at it. We blew it because we didn't coordinate, and had no unity. Yeah, we touched off a war that destroyed several realms, and *did* reshape a significant part of the political landscape of the island. And it happened because a lot of people who *could* have sat back and been complacent took a risk.

It didn't fail because we didn't try. Not because no one cared, or we all wanted to be safe. It failed because we !@#$ed it up, and CE held it together long enough to let us !@#$ it up.

And you know what? That's how the cookie crumbles. You think that the non-CE side *deserves* to win, just because they took a risk? Because that's the side you wanted to win? That's a crock of !@#$. We started the war. They were better at it. They win. Time to move on and tell a different story.
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Indirik

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Re: Leaders of Beluaterra
« Reply #62: May 31, 2014, 03:47:11 AM »
That's the problem. A lot of rulers are like you.
Mrh? Have you ever played in a realm where I was ruler? I think that most of the time that my characters were rulers, we were pretty much always at war with someone or other, whether I started the war or not. Hell, my realm right now is fighting for its life in a war that we pretty much expected to lose, because we refused to knuckle under to the big dog and join a 5-v-2 gang bang on the winning side.

Quote
Rulers that are afraid of making it 'fun'. You forgot to think on the players that are non-rulers. As a ruler, you can feed them what you want, making the game more interesting. Unfortunately, your suggestion just doesn't work because everyone just wants to act self righteous. That makes a very boring game.
Every ruler acts self-righteous.
Every ruler filters the information their realm gets.
Every ruler claims to act with nobility and justice.
Every ruler claims to be on the side of good, puppies, and yummy cookies.

All rulers *have* to act self-righteous. They have to pretend that they believe that what they are doing is the right thing. You know what happens when you do the wrong thing, and admit that you're doing the wrong thing? You get the snot beaten out of you, because everyone else realizes that they can't trust you. And no one wants a neighbor, or a ruler, they can't trust.

You don't want rulers like what you have now? Vote new ones. The fact that people aren't voting in different rulers tells me that they don't *want* new ones, despite the few people on the forum that complain about it.

The impetus is entirely on the rulers to create fun for their players, since the average player has very little influence on the political climate of the continent as a whole.
That's patently untrue. Think your realm is boring? Demand that the realm spice it up some. They don't do it? Then you leave. You're stuck in a boring realm? Then it's your fault. You have the power to leave and go somewhere else more exciting. Or pause your character and play a different one. You think AA and Thalmarkin are fun realms with good leaders? Then go play in AA and Thalmarkin.

If enough people vote with their feet, then the boring realms will collapse, and be replaced by something else. Put on your big-boy pants, stand up, and say "We're not going to put up with being bored. Either give us some excitement, or we're leaving."
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Disturbedyang

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Re: Leaders of Beluaterra
« Reply #63: May 31, 2014, 06:55:02 AM »
I, for one, think the continent as a whole would've had more fun and would've been more interesting if you had gone along with our plan in stead of betraying us.
I'm biased of course but I see less potential for evenly matched conflict on the road you've chosen.

Thalmarkin is too far north east and too big for even 3 realms to fight against them. Especially with AA standing by with it. With OG being taken out and probably become neutral, it will be a much balanced war. If not, I will make sure it is by you know...doing something cunning :p



And Indirik, okay, I take it back about you. But you doesn't stand for just you but rulers in general, in a different context. A lot of rulers out there are not like you. They are boring and their people are bored. If you disregard this, perhaps you are not looking at the bigger picture.

Yes, acting is a good word. In fact, Melhedians do not really care a lot except for a few complains here and there. They love actions. Changing a realm is not an option anymore because so many realms are stucke d with the same kind of rulers because like Anaris said, they last longer. Those big realms though are no fun for underdogs players like us. Yes they take risks because they can. What about smaller realms? How many you have seen like Melhed who took risks even though they are one of the smaller realms?

All I am saying that something needs to be done to encourage the ruler to act more boldly and taking risks. That is what makes the game more fun than sitting around fighting infestation.

Disturbedyang

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Re: Leaders of Beluaterra
« Reply #64: May 31, 2014, 07:01:10 AM »
I take it you're the ruler of Melhed? Your profile does not show your family affilitation.

If that's the case, then yes, I do think that your actions are good for the game. You took risks and broke the business as usual. That's good! It leads to action.

Now, it doesn't mean everyone will act the way you expected to, in the same way that you didn't act the way everyone expected you too. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Your actions opened new opportunities for many realm. The chips may not fall into place the way you intended to, but they will fall differently than if you had not done anything different. In that sense, from an OOC point of view, this was a positive act.

Thanks, I am. Like I said, I just do not understand the action riombara took. Felt more ooc than ic hence my qualms with them. Though, it's just a game and I understand not everything always goes according to MY plan. But this has became sort of a one sided fight, until of course if the others join in the fight as 'planned'.

Regardless, Melhed took a calculated risk. Though it forgot to take OOC into the calculation.

Bedwyr

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Re: Leaders of Beluaterra
« Reply #65: May 31, 2014, 07:11:23 PM »
Well...that's because taking risks is, well, risky. Inherently.

In essence, all you're saying is "being cautious and avoiding situations that are likely to lead to risk of death means you're less likely to die." Which is pretty much obvious. And there's nothing we can do about it, because it's sort of part of the way the universe works.

Yeah, we could add more random "you didn't take enough risks, so you get zapped out of a clear blue sky" type dangers, but those don't actually hold much deterrent power—plus, they suck really hard.

So, yes: the rulers who last a long time are going to be the rulers who go for the safe option, rather than the fun option, every time. Forever.

Not quite true.  You just have to do proper planning.  Jenred ruled for ages while being one of the boldest Rulers on the continent.  Admittedly, that took an insane amount of luck (Jenred at the end was utterly convinced he was divinely-backed in large part because his luck was so good), but a lot of it was proper planning and diplomacy (and the internal trust and cohesion of his realm) that let him capitalize on that luck.

I have seen way too many risk-taking realms that thought they didn't need planning and diplomacy get crushed.  You don't have to do that stupidly, you know.

Also, don't overlook the power of nontraditional incentives.  Some people want fame, some want money for training, some want to hob-nob, some want that hot lordling in the next region.  Know the people you work with and really think outside the usual buttons.
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here!"

Bedwyr

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Re: Leaders of Beluaterra
« Reply #66: May 31, 2014, 07:13:39 PM »
Also, plan the next war before getting into this one.  Otherwise you might end up as all too many have in peace-locked situations.
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til ya understand who's in ruttin' command here!"

Marlboro

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Re: Leaders of Beluaterra
« Reply #67: June 01, 2014, 07:10:13 AM »
Whoever says long-lived rulers don't take risks never had a character in Thalmarkin. There's a damn good reason Fingolfin is still in undisputed command, and it's because he takes every risk. He challenged the Overlord personally and brought down Netherworld's hordes on his kingdom... and broke them. He sends his armies out for week-long raids against neutral realms without asking for passage rights from intervening realms, he roots out and destroys religions he finds distasteful damn the consequences, bullies his closest allies into giving him land, and then he commands an entire continent to acknowledge him as king of all men.

Yes, he has a tight, seasoned crew standing behind him, and that helps a lot, but none of us in the various councils ever read a letter from him like "Oh we'd better not do anything to upset (insert realm)." I'm sad that Thalmarkin gets lumped in with CE and SA and other huge power blocs, but we earn that swagger, we fight like hell for it.

vvv It's not intended  as a call-out to anyone in particular, just a blanket declaration. I appreciate what you're doing with Melhed, even if we're on opposite sides.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2014, 10:42:24 PM by Marlboro »
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Disturbedyang

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Re: Leaders of Beluaterra
« Reply #68: June 01, 2014, 02:37:13 PM »
Whoever says long-lived rulers don't take risks never had a character in Thalmarkin. There's a damn good reason Fingolfin is still in undisputed command, and it's because he takes every risk. He challenged the Overlord personally and brought down Netherworld's hordes on his kingdom... and broke them. He sends his armies out for week-long raids against neutral realms without asking for passage rights from intervening realms, he roots out and destroys religions he finds distasteful damn the consequences, bullies his closest allies into giving him land, and then he commands an entire continent to acknowledge him as king of all men.

Yes, he has a tight, seasoned crew standing behind him, and that helps a lot, but none of us in the various councils ever read a letter from him like "Oh we'd better not do anything to upset (insert realm)." I'm sad that Thalmarkin gets lumped in with CE and SA and other huge power blocs, but we earn that swagger, we fight like hell for it.

If you have been reading what i wrote, i exclude AA and Thal from my generalization. Fingolfin is an very interesting character to have around, and even if we did somehow miraculously win the war, i wouldn't want to see Thal go down. I will keep them around just to have them annoy someone once in a while. Apart from him, there isn't anyone that is doing anything much. Outo was also quite bold which was good. And now Elicia of Fronen is also an very interesting character to have around. Other than that, i can't say they are the same, especially those that ruled much longer.

And of course, i am speaking for a lot of other continents too. Not just Beluaterra.

jaune

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Re: Leaders of Beluaterra
« Reply #69: June 01, 2014, 03:31:37 PM »
Big part on OO's "boldness" is that he is good friend of Fingolfin :)

But overall, i like BT. I have always played less carefull there and my chars always been more or less lunatics and frearless. Which leaded to destruction of first AA along with the invasion.

Too often taking big risk means what it is, you take a big risk to get wiped off from the map.
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Antonine

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Re: Leaders of Beluaterra
« Reply #70: June 01, 2014, 11:41:42 PM »
One general thing which I think is the problem is that people don't take responsibility for doing things. If you're a margrave then, bam, you can set yourself up as a new realm if you don't like your old one. If you're in a boring realm then you can pick a fight internally, or plot a rebellion or betray your entire realm for another side. Yeah, you might not succeed, and your chances of changing things are smaller than if you're a ruler, but it's something. And if it doesn't work out then just move somewhere else and try again.

There's a good reason why all the most interesting characters are the ones that have been in several realms and that's because the only two ways to play battlemaster are risky and fun or safe and boring.

jaune

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Re: Leaders of Beluaterra
« Reply #71: June 02, 2014, 07:15:24 AM »
There's a good reason why all the most interesting characters are the ones that have been in several realms and that's because the only two ways to play battlemaster are risky and fun or safe and boring.

Well, there is people who apparently enjoy play safe and it might not even be boring for them... others mayby :)
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Lorgan

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Re: Leaders of Beluaterra
« Reply #72: June 06, 2014, 07:20:40 PM »
Looks like there is a whole lot of activity now. :)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 07:27:24 PM by Lorgan »