New Unit Type: Pikemen

[Vaylon Kenadell]

I searched the forums for this suggestion and similar suggestions and was somewhat surprised not to see it. I believe this unit type may offer some balance with regards to cavalry and perhaps allow for greater variations of battlefield tactics.

Pikemen are, as the name implies, soldiers who are equipped with an extremely long spear-like weapon called a pike. Generally, these types of men are deployed when a cavalry charge is expected, and they are usually very effective against charging mounted opponents. However, they must be specially trained to use the weapon effectively; the pikes themselves are heavy and unwieldy. This unit is generally a defensive one, but they can be very devastating when well-ordered and on the attack.

Pros:
Extremely good defense and offense against cavalry; any cavalry foolish enough to charge a line of pikemen will suffer heavy losses.
Bonus to melee attack and melee defense against other unit types as long as the unit has not suffered casualties of over 40%.
A recruitment center for pikemen can be specifically built, though it has as much chance to succeed as a cavalry recruitment center.

Cons:
Once this unit has lost 40% of its men, it will become disorganized; once disorganized, the unit will lose its melee attack and melee defense bonuses, as well as its bonuses against cavalry.
This unit is vulnerable to ranged attacks.
This unit is expensive to recruit and maintain.

[De-Legro]

I searched the forums for this suggestion and similar suggestions and was somewhat surprised not to see it. I believe this unit type may offer some balance with regards to cavalry and perhaps allow for greater variations of battlefield tactics.

Pikemen are, as the name implies, soldiers who are equipped with an extremely long spear-like weapon called a pike. Generally, these types of men are deployed when a cavalry charge is expected, and they are usually very effective against charging mounted opponents. However, they must be specially trained to use the weapon effectively; the pikes themselves are heavy and unwieldy. This unit is generally a defensive one, but they can be very devastating when well-ordered and on the attack.

Pros:
Extremely good defense and offense against cavalry; any cavalry foolish enough to charge a line of pikemen will suffer heavy losses.
Bonus to melee attack and melee defense against other unit types as long as the unit has not suffered casualties of over 40%.
A recruitment center for pikemen can be specifically built, though it has as much chance to succeed as a cavalry recruitment center.

Cons:
Once this unit has lost 40% of its men, it will become disorganized; once disorganized, the unit will lose its melee attack and melee defense bonuses, as well as its bonuses against cavalry.
This unit is vulnerable to ranged attacks.
This unit is expensive to recruit and maintain.

So infantry. Tom has said in the past he doesn't want to go down the path of specifying the equipment of the different units so I'm not sure how much chance this has. We have also up to this time avoided giving any unit type a specific advantage against another unit type, in so far as the unit will have modifiers against a specific unit type.

[Vaylon Kenadell]

So infantry.

No, pikemen. Swords, axes, maces, and what-have-you work far, far differently from 20-foot spears, and the tactics to use them are markedly different.

Tom has said in the past he doesn't want to go down the path of specifying the equipment of the different units so I'm not sure how much chance this has. We have also up to this time avoided giving any unit type a specific advantage against another unit type, in so far as the unit will have modifiers against a specific unit type.

That's fine. I figured that this particular suggestion had about a snowball's chance in hell, but I still wanted to post it because I find actual medieval battlefield tactics interesting.

[De-Legro]

No, pikemen. Swords, axes, maces, and what-have-you work far, far differently from 20-foot spears, and the tactics to use them are markedly different.

That's fine. I figured that this particular suggestion had about a snowball's chance in hell, but I still wanted to post it because I find actual medieval battlefield tactics interesting.

Infantry are infantry, they fight on foot with non-ranged weapons, at least in this context. Pikemen are infantry, they simply use a different weapon then other infantry formations. Halberds also require different tactics, hell even using large double handed swords as opposed to smaller stabbing swords requires different tactics and formations.

You also need to remember that with the exception of Swiss Pikemen and the elite units they inspired, most pikemen were poorly trained militia. For example the Scots and Flemish used large peasant or militia formations to try and offset their lack of knights.

[Vaylon Kenadell]

Pikemen are infantry, they simply use a different weapon then other infantry formations.

Interesting. Let's see if this applies to any other units currently existing in the game. Mixed infantry are infantry, they simply use different weapons than other infantry formations -- yet the game distinguishes between mixed infantry and infantry. The same goes for special forces.

[De-Legro]

MI are a BROAD category though. We don't specify if they are lightly armoured skirmishes like the Peltast or heavily armoured like the early Roman Legionaries. We don't specify if they use javelins or slings or bows. The Difference here is you want a unit with a specified weapon load out, which NO OTHER existing unit type does.

There in lies the problem. Once you add pikemen and the special rules for them, everyone is going to want special rules for the formations and weapons they like. Special rules for maces and blunt weapons against heavy armour vs the in effectiveness of swords against the same etc.

[Vaylon Kenadell]

There in lies the problem. Once you add pikemen and the special rules for them, everyone is going to want special rules for the formations and weapons they like. Special rules for maces and blunt weapons against heavy armour vs the in effectiveness of swords against the same etc.

Well, then, why not simply give them a broad name? Instead of pikes, maybe they use glaives, volgues, halberds, bardiches, etc.? We could call them, I don't know, poleaxemen.

[De-Legro]

Well, then, why not simply give them a broad name? Instead of pikes, maybe they use glaives, volgues, halberds, bardiches, etc.? We could call them, I don't know, poleaxemen.

That could work. Now all you need to add is the fact that without significant training they are unlikely to be able to maintain a cohesive formation on an offensive push against the enemy, and you've got the unit sorted.

[Shizzle]

Well, in real life I suspect cavalry would attack pikemen from the sides, by trying to outflank them. However, battle in BM is only one-dimensional (?). So how would cavalry ever be useful? Every army would have one unit of pikemen up front, and nobody would ever use cavalry again...

[Vaylon Kenadell]

Well, in real life I suspect cavalry would attack pikemen from the sides, by trying to outflank them. However, battle in BM is only one-dimensional (?). So how would cavalry ever be useful? Every army would have one unit of pikemen up front, and nobody would ever use cavalry again...

Several ways: ranged units, infantry, and mixed infantry could break up "pikeman" units before the cavalry arrive -- or, with a sufficiently large enough cavalry/infantry, it is possible to simply overrun the "pikemen" by doing the prerequisite damage to cause confusion in the "pikemen's" ranks, though you will suffer heavy losses in the process, of course (also called the Zapp Brannigan Doctrine).

If you like, we could say that "pikemen" fare poorly against certain unit:troop ratios -- for example, one large unit of pikemen opposing multiple cavalry units with an equal or larger strength.

[Ramiel]

Without turning the battles into proper battlefield maps and allowing Marshals a few extra dozen orders and contingency orders, adding single unit types would be hectic. And not just because of the example discussed. A well formed Pike Wall is devastating to heavily armed Infantry too. If the guys with swords cant get past the pointy ends, they cant use their stabby ends on you. As for flanking a block of pikes, it would depends if they were in Line and using Pike Wall or using the Hedgehog (Squarish - think of Waterloo's Squares formation but with pikes).

As for Mixed Infantry - from what I understand they are missle troops with higher melee skill but less missle skill. IE Javelins, Slingers, Blowdarts... etc.

But basically without making this game more complex and more/less fun for Marshals (RTS I personally love, but guess some here might hate) then it wouldnt be worth of for the devs unless they did the whole hog and did specialized units for all weapon archetypes. And whilst that might be a good thing, it would be code consuming and they would slap us probably when we ask for a new one

However thats not to say you shouldnt Roleplay your unit as how you want. I personally lead a Unit called Ciarin Tut Guardians which is made up of Silver Pikemen from Askileon. When I do a roleplay about the battle I would mention the tactics of a Pike Block. Before that I had Ciarin Tut Crushers as the infantry in my unit and I roleplayed them as mace wielders

Just use the roleplay available.

[Shizzle]

Kinda sucks if your Silver Pikemen get owned by a cavalry unit a third their size, though

[Ramiel]

Kinda sucks if your Silver Pikemen get owned by a cavalry unit a third their size, though

Have yet to see it happen They are the best troops the realm produces so meh

[Velax]

Back in the time this game is set in, I imagine cavalry would avoid a unit armed with large, horse-impaling spears as hard as it damn well could. In Battlemaster, however, there's no control. They've got no choice, they're just going to charge right onto those pikes and get annihilated.

[Chenier]

Back in the time this game is set in, I imagine cavalry would avoid a unit armed with large, horse-impaling spears as hard as it damn well could. In Battlemaster, however, there's no control. They've got no choice, they're just going to charge right onto those pikes and get annihilated.

Agreed. In an RTS version of BattleMaster, that'd be sweet. But in the game as we have it, not so much. It's better to simply stick with generic types and RP them as we wish.