East Continent vs. Far East

[Constantine]

These two islands look almost identical and share the same design flaws, both maps being dominated by leviathans in the north. But I've heard there is some quality roleplay there and no shortage of war. Which isle is actually more fun to play on? Maybe there are specific nations that are on the rise right now?
Give me some pointers, guys.

[Indirik]

These two islands look almost identical and share the same design flaws, both maps being dominated by leviathans in the north.

Though similar in shape, there are actually significant differences between the two. FEI has far fewer regons overall, and a much higher proportion of cities. I believe the original idea was to allow for more, smaller realms. This used to be teh case. Shrinking player numbers have forced consolidation, though.

But I've heard there is some quality roleplay there and no shortage of war.

FEI is now in the middle of a war. It is the first war following the long road to re-establishing Arcaea as the Imperial giant on the island. There was a long period of peace following the defeat of Kindara and the establishment of the Imperium. Quite a few people thought the island would just wither away. Emperor Velax finally opened diplomacy up, and unlocked things, though. Sorraine and Coralynth immediately opened things up by pouncing on Ohnar West, but failing to achieve the quick kill. The result was that Sorraine and Coralynth got jumped on by Arcaea, Cathay, and the Principality of Zonasa, all claiming various reasons why they felt it necessary to join in the beat-down. A duchy split off of Arcaea, initially siding with the southerners in the war on Sorraine. Then that new realm (the Grand Duchy of the Dragon) tried to set itself up as the neutral buffer realm, between the north and south. The southerners said "Oh no you don't, that's OUR city!", changed their rationale for attacking Sorraine, and promptly violated the Grand Duchy's borders, and got their asses kicked in Colasan. (Again.)

Anyway, there's no shortage of war on FEI, it's just not a very exciting war. The southerners march forever, and tend to do a lot of sitting around between battles. Coralynth is small, and can't really do a lot. Ohnar West is small, and can't fight gainst Sorraine without Arcaea's help. Sorraine does a lot of fighting, but tends to be unorganized. Every time we try to make a move against OW, Arcaea moves in to stop it. Overall, it feels like there's a lot of going through the motions, but nothing really important happening.


On EC, there was a recent ruler change in Perdan, and a new realm formed by secesssion from Caligus, named Vix Tiramora. It is formed on land that used to belong to Perdan. Everyone was preparing for this secession to trigger a war involving most of the south. However, plans changed when Perdan's ruler changed. Perdan and Vix Tiramora are waging a staged war game, with each side wagering one region, with the war lasting 90 days. The rest of the island is scrambling to adapt to this, and looking for some other way to start some wars. How it all develops is not yet determined.

Which isle is actually more fun to play on? Maybe there are specific nations that are on the rise right now?

That all depends on how you define fun. At the moment, there is more war on FEI, but I don't really consider it to be a "fun" war. There's not a lot of war on EC right now (onlyPerdan/Vix), but there is a war brewing that could end up being very big. Or it might not happen at all. Dunno yet.

[Constantine]

Perdan and Vix Tiramora are waging a staged war game, with each side wagering one region, with the war lasting 90 days.

Clever! Props to whoever came up with the idea.

[Indirik]

Perhaps, but also very offensive to some realms.

[Constantine]

Well, that's a bonus.
I guess I'm going to one of these realms. What's the difference between them?
Perdan seems to be in bad shape (apparently lost their capital?) and Vix sound like obnoxious upstarts, so I already like them both. But some extra context won't hurt.

[Audaci]

I love Perdan! It's one of the original realms in the game still left and has a lot of history. Significantly smaller and weaker then it's ever been (as far as I know), but likes to think of itself as still being a major power and is vying to have a voice in the future of the island.

We've seen 3-4 nobles join in the past week, everyone is relatively active, and the war front is very close so no long marches or sitting around and waiting.  And while it's lost the capital some time ago, Aix has a great view of the ocean and nearby Lorient produces some excellent wine

[Indirik]

The land that Vix Tiramora occupies used to be part of Perdan. The Duke of Castle Ubent had a disagreement with the actions taken by the former Queen of Perdan, Queen Fiona. (Several people are of the opinion that the Duke guided her into taking certain actions specifically so that he could use those against her.) The Duke used those actions as justification for seceding from Perdan to form a new realm. Problem was that the capital of Perdan was Castle Ubent, and a duchy with a capital in it can't secede. So instead he swapped allegiance to Caligus, planning to secede from them to form his new realm. Except that he didn't have a city, and couldn't secede from there, either. Perdan, of course, took great exception to this, as did several other realms. The Duke was accused by many of being dishonorable, etc.

A little later, Perdan lost control of Partora and it went rogue. Caligus swooped in and took over Partora before Perdan could retake it. Caligus and Perdan were neutral at the time. Lots more people were mad at Caligus about that move, but no one was in any condition to do anything about it. Caligus claimed that they needed it in order to secede their new realm. In the meantime, the prior Duke of Castle Ubent who planned this whole thing, had quit the game. Meivmayr took over.

Fast forward 6 months, and the duchy finally seceded. Perdan had been reduced to only the duchy of Aix. Yes, that's smaller than they have ever been before. Everyone had been expecting the inevitable war between Perdan and Vix Tiramora. Perdan had declared their intentions, months ago, to attack the new realm as soon as they seceded. Fiona and Meivmayr had the expected argument and threat exchange on the ruler's channel, and both declared that the war would begin as soon as Sirion's two-week grace period expired.

Except that a day or two later, Fiona suicided. (Player had to step back from the game for a bit.) She set up a situation via RP that either enabled Perdan and Vix Tiramora to merge, or to go for each other's throat, depending on how they decided to play it out.

Odoaker was elected in Perdan, and immediately set up this war game deal with Vix Tiramora.

And that's where we are today.

[De-Legro]

People are only offended because the new ruler in Perdan achieved in days what the rest of the rulers on the continent have mulled over for months. He got a war actually off the ground. There is far too much "planning" for a war these days, and far too little actual war. Then this upstart comes in and proves that really if you pull for finger out you can make things actually happen before you lose half your realm to boredom.

[Anaris]

People are only offended because the new ruler in Perdan achieved in days what the rest of the rulers on the continent have mulled over for months. He got a war actually off the ground. There is far too much "planning" for a war these days, and far too little actual war. Then this upstart comes in and proves that really if you pull for finger out you can make things actually happen before you lose half your realm to boredom.

This is, indeed, a problem. Its source lies, I think, primarily in the international politics of each continent, which rulers feel they need to take into account.

A big part of it is, of course, what someone mentioned earlier in this thread: that the aggressor in a conflict is all too often jumped upon by the rest of the continent as a "safe" target...unless that aggressor is the big dog on the block, in which case there's just as much chance that they'll join the aggressor in hopes that the other side will be a safe target.

Now, this is more of a fear than an actual rule, but it is definitely a prevalent fear in the game, and it does lead to a lot more thinking about war and planning for war and a lot less actual war.

Wars like this are exactly the sort of thing we need to start to reduce that fear. The more we see realms going to war in pairs or small groups, without the rest of the continent joining in, the more people will feel that it's safe to do such things and start being willing to try just starting a small war.

[Vita`]

Not, not at all. I have not known *anyone* to be offended because there's now a war and no one else got to do it. Not at all.

What I believe Indirik was referring to, which was IC realms being offended, was the *manner* the small realms were fighting wars in which their characters agreed to kill each other for what amounted to their bloodlust and entertainment. Agreeing to fight for a specific number of days, wagering a region as if gambling, and then agreeing to return all conquered regions except the wagered regions seems really disgusting to some nobility. OOC, it seems contrived and awkward, but we need war, so whatever. But that doesn't change that some IC elements took offense to it. It has nothing to do with envy over who got to start wars and months mulling around.

And for the record, all these rulers sitting on their thumbs not starting wars. Sure, they could've done something independently instead of waiting for the secession - so could anyone anywhere else where there's no war. But the crux of the waiting came down to the two ducal players of the new realm delaying the secession for six months while they tried to prepare their realm for the inevitable war to come, not all the other rulers ready for war. The only wars that could've reliably happened in the aftermath of Perdan's peace was either all the small southern realms starting a war together, as was happening once the realm seceded for all their divergent interests, or a roflstomp of some realm. I hate peace as much of the next guy, but to go on about how the rulers were doing absolutely nothing and then praising the realm that delayed war and then blocked the other participants with an interest in it for an awkwardly-contrived war game...blech. It's not as if none of the rulers, or any other EI characters, weren't trying to pressure Caligus into seceding the realm already.

[Constantine]

People are praised for creating fun for their realms and basically getting things done.
All this geopolitical mumbo-jumbo is pretty much beyond the point.

[Constantine]

doublepost

[Vita`]

People are praised for creating fun for their realms and basically getting things done.
All this geopolitical mumbo-jumbo is pretty much beyond the point.

Except my point was that the same people being praised for 'getting things done' were the same people who were NOT getting things done for six months and a large part of the waiting around for something to happen. And the fun that did happen was much more limited than was likely to happen before they changed course. And sure, crap happens, people are rolling with it. I'm just pointing out that there's not some big dichotomy of folks waiting around and other folks doing things. It's the same folks, all over, both waiting around and doing things.

• Vix - Waited around for months preparing for secession. Started war with Perdan.
• Perdan - Waited around for months for secession to happen. Started war with Vix.
• Eponllyn - Waited around for months for secession to happen. Was ready to help with Partora for various IC reasons, but didn't want Vix's destruction. Now adjusting plans for Perdan going from wanting a defensive alliance to Perdan ignoring and half-threatening them.
• Caligus - Waited around for months for realm to secede from them. Was ready to join war in Vix's defense if Eponllyn got involved. Now conspiring for war elsewhere if not trying to finish Fallangard still.
• Perleone - Possibly would've taken advantage of large war to attack Perdan. Or maybe switch sides again and attack someone else. Kinda chaotic down there. Anyway, I'm sure they are playing it cautious with hte limited war next door. Don't really hear much from them.
• Fallangard - likely would've taken advantage of Caligus being at war elsewhere. Now waiting around like they have been since the glaciers and their rebellion.
• Sirion - I hadn't heard much from them on potential succession plans, but they were interested in situation. Sirion claimed to want to avoid involvement, but might step in to prevent realm deaths. They guaranteed new realm's initial days were safe, now what they will do is anyone's guess.
• Nivemus - Some elements express dissatisfaction with first duke's (before meivymayr) allegiance change, unsure what remains. There's also perleonite sympathy and was Perdan/Fiona disdain. No clue how closely they were following secession.
• OI - Should I even bother? Has anyone received a dignitary from them lately? Do we even know if they're alive up there?

And again, the limited nature of the war comparatively means that many of these realms are now adjusting plans for war delaying war(s) even longer and and thus resulting in less war. War will happen eventually, yay, but I think the way things happened are suboptimal to more war on the continent.

[De-Legro]

Except my point was that the same people being praised for 'getting things done' were the same people who were NOT getting things done for six months and a large part of the waiting around for something to happen. And the fun that did happen was much more limited than was likely to happen before they changed course. And sure, crap happens, people are rolling with it. I'm just pointing out that there's not some big dichotomy of folks waiting around and other folks doing things. It's the same folks, all over, both waiting around and doing things.

• Vix - Waited around for months preparing for secession. Started war with Perdan.
• Perdan - Waited around for months for secession to happen. Started war with Vix.
• Eponllyn - Waited around for months for secession to happen. Was ready to help with Partora for various IC reasons, but didn't want Vix's destruction. Now adjusting plans for Perdan going from wanting a defensive alliance to Perdan ignoring and half-threatening them.
• Caligus - Waited around for months for realm to secede from them. Was ready to join war in Vix's defense if Eponllyn got involved. Now conspiring for war elsewhere if not trying to finish Fallangard still.
• Perleone - Possibly would've taken advantage of large war to attack Perdan. Or maybe switch sides again and attack someone else. Kinda chaotic down there. Anyway, I'm sure they are playing it cautious with hte limited war next door. Don't really hear much from them.
• Fallangard - likely would've taken advantage of Caligus being at war elsewhere. Now waiting around like they have been since the glaciers and their rebellion.
• Sirion - I hadn't heard much from them on potential succession plans, but they were interested in situation. Sirion claimed to want to avoid involvement, but might step in to prevent realm deaths. They guaranteed new realm's initial days were safe, now what they will do is anyone's guess.
• Nivemus - Some elements express dissatisfaction with first duke's (before meivymayr) allegiance change, unsure what remains. There's also perleonite sympathy and was Perdan/Fiona disdain. No clue how closely they were following secession.
• OI - Should I even bother? Has anyone received a dignitary from them lately? Do we even know if they're alive up there?

And again, the limited nature of the war comparatively means that many of these realms are now adjusting plans for war delaying war(s) even longer and and thus resulting in less war. War will happen eventually, yay, but I think the way things happened are suboptimal to more war on the continent.

The fact that continents repeatedly tie themselves into diplomatic knots that "prevent" wars are soley the fault of the players that continue to make such ridiculous far reaching and all encompassing arrangements.

[The Red Foliot]

Well there are some selection factors at work. Realms that don't indulge in convoluted defensive alliances and gang bangs are less competitive than those that do, so they are selected against and slowly disappear.