Author Topic: Darka's return?  (Read 4585 times)

GundamMerc

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #15: November 20, 2015, 09:27:11 AM »
Well, if we let this war go on a while, it should break things up some and make room for something like a new Darka...

Personally, I'd love to establish a new BoM (conceptually the same, not reviving the heritage) that can pull off good raids... but the island is probably too small to get away with it for any amount of time.

This is the attitude that makes things NOT happen. People keep waiting for things to happen, leading to the large powers sorting things out and consolidating in such a way that prevents any factions from seceding successfully.

In fact now would be the perfect time to secede. All of the realms are too busy to pay attention to anything going on in the north, and I wouldn't be surprised if much of Talerium's noble population is sympathetic to a renewed Darka.

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #16: November 20, 2015, 07:38:04 PM »
Actually, not always. Thanks for the generalization, though. If anything, I'd say the problem is more the group mentality and the Atamaran tradition of ganging up on a few realms.

What you clearly don't understand is that this war can easily be over in a heartbeat. Right now, the war in the "South" (let's be honest, the "North" is now what was once mid-continent) is fairly well balanced. If Talerium joins Tara (the obvious choice), the CE and Strombran's only logical choice is to surrender. War ends, the League reforms, likely with Tara taking top seat, and looks for a new enemy, which they find in Darka. It's the same result if Darka breaks off now - they will obviously attack the CE, so the CE will surrender to Tara and crew.

However, if the war goes on (which is still stacked against Strombran / CE a bit), tensions rise and Tara pulls farther apart from the CE.

Darka is still symbolic. The big reason the League is fighting itself is the lack of other viable candidates. Give them one now and I assure you, they will take advantage of it.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 07:59:56 PM by Eirikr »

GundamMerc

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #17: November 20, 2015, 08:48:05 PM »
Actually, not always. Thanks for the generalization, though. If anything, I'd say the problem is more the group mentality and the Atamaran tradition of ganging up on a few realms.

What you clearly don't understand is that this war can easily be over in a heartbeat. Right now, the war in the "South" (let's be honest, the "North" is now what was once mid-continent) is fairly well balanced. If Talerium joins Tara (the obvious choice), the CE and Strombran's only logical choice is to surrender. War ends, the League reforms, likely with Tara taking top seat, and looks for a new enemy, which they find in Darka. It's the same result if Darka breaks off now - they will obviously attack the CE, so the CE will surrender to Tara and crew.

However, if the war goes on (which is still stacked against Strombran / CE a bit), tensions rise and Tara pulls farther apart from the CE.

Darka is still symbolic. The big reason the League is fighting itself is the lack of other viable candidates. Give them one now and I assure you, they will take advantage of it.

Where did I say always? You're the one making a generalization about my statement that isn't even there. Please reread, I in no way stated that this is always the case, but that it is the case much of the time.

Eirikr

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #18: November 20, 2015, 09:39:30 PM »
Where did I say always? You're the one making a generalization about my statement that isn't even there. Please reread, I in no way stated that this is always the case, but that it is the case much of the time.

This is the attitude that makes things NOT happen.

That's an absolute. If you didn't mean it so, fine. Thanks for the clarification.

I would be interested to hear what you think of my suggestion that an immediate surrender situation would sabotage an effort to rebuild Darka, though. Or if you completely disagree, that's cool, too. I think we've got a good war going on, but Talerium's in a complicated situation. If this helps generate an idea that is fun for the continent and makes sense, I'm all for checking it out.

Indirik

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #19: November 20, 2015, 10:15:08 PM »
Could be interesting if Talerium attacks, Tara leaves the war in the south to go after the New Darka, leaving Strombran to face the south alone. Would even the odds against Strombran. Not sure how Darkalerium would fare against CE and Tara. I doubt Rieleston would help them against the Empire. ::)
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Medron Pryde

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #20: December 06, 2015, 11:30:08 PM »
Wouldn't have happened.

My OOC goal was to break most of the realms into 1 or 2 city nations either by encouraging secessions or by just smashing them until something broke and then walking away to find the next target.

I never sought the destruction of any realm.

Heck, I was "this close" to announcing that I would be giving a certain city to Minas Leon in order to force a breakup in Tara.  My final goal was to see three Taran realms.  One centered on Foda, one on Aja, and one on Tucha or Shanandoah.  I and the duke of Shanandoah actually talked about it, in full IC.  And he is not the only duke I talked to about secessions from their parent realms.  NEVER to join Tara.  I didn't want Tara any more powerful than we were.  That is why I was so quick to ally Tara with Wayburg.  That secession was a total surprise to me, but it was the kind of thing I'd been working towards for a year.  Breaking up all the powerful realms so we could get some wars going on again.

The alliances, the federation, the big realms, they were all too limiting.  They all had to go, and I never would have supported wiping out any nation simply because it dared to secede from an ally.  A new Darka would have tickled my funny bone.

But yeah...I've been playing cards REAL close to my chest for a year now.  These comments on this forum are the closest I've come to revealing them at all.  Even my closest allies and friends in game never heard all of this.  Just the bits I was hoping they would help with.  Nobody knew the whole picture.  Even I didn't actually.  I just knew things couldn't stay the way they were, so I was banging walls and knocking on doors to see what I could shake loose.  And finding people who were happy to help.

While at the same time doing it all just small enough that I didn't turn Tara into the whole continent's new target number ONE....That was honestly the most delicate part of the entire tap dance...

GundamMerc

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #21: December 06, 2015, 11:53:24 PM »
Wouldn't have happened.

My OOC goal was to break most of the realms into 1 or 2 city nations either by encouraging secessions or by just smashing them until something broke and then walking away to find the next target.

I never sought the destruction of any realm.

Heck, I was "this close" to announcing that I would be giving a certain city to Minas Leon in order to force a breakup in Tara.  My final goal was to see three Taran realms.  One centered on Foda, one on Aja, and one on Tucha or Shanandoah.  I and the duke of Shanandoah actually talked about it, in full IC.  And he is not the only duke I talked to about secessions from their parent realms.  NEVER to join Tara.  I didn't want Tara any more powerful than we were.  That is why I was so quick to ally Tara with Wayburg.  That secession was a total surprise to me, but it was the kind of thing I'd been working towards for a year.  Breaking up all the powerful realms so we could get some wars going on again.

The alliances, the federation, the big realms, they were all too limiting.  They all had to go, and I never would have supported wiping out any nation simply because it dared to secede from an ally.  A new Darka would have tickled my funny bone.

But yeah...I've been playing cards REAL close to my chest for a year now.  These comments on this forum are the closest I've come to revealing them at all.  Even my closest allies and friends in game never heard all of this.  Just the bits I was hoping they would help with.  Nobody knew the whole picture.  Even I didn't actually.  I just knew things couldn't stay the way they were, so I was banging walls and knocking on doors to see what I could shake loose.  And finding people who were happy to help.

While at the same time doing it all just small enough that I didn't turn Tara into the whole continent's new target number ONE....That was honestly the most delicate part of the entire tap dance...

What you've done so far is admirable. It's the first time I've found AT to be any kind of enjoyment. Unfortunately, Atamara was stagnating for so long before hand that it is simply too little, too late. I too would have been interested in what would happen on Atamara, but right now there are too few people to play on all the continents.

Medron Pryde

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #22: December 07, 2015, 01:01:50 AM »
I COULDN'T have done it any faster without making Tara target number one for the continent.

And without other rulers helping and proposing ideas as they did it never would have worked.  I could not have made the changes we did alone.  No way.  No how.

We all worked hard and long to turn Atamara around.

The story I just told was merely MY story of what I did.  And it is a very fragmentary one.  ;)

I most certainly did not "do" this.

We all did.

And I don't agree with the "too little too late" idea.  I know it is easy to say.  And I know many people agree with it.  I simply do not.  In my opinion, we did what we needed to do.  It was obviously too late.  The devs were already determined to sink the island.  But I don't agree on the too little.  We did what needed doing.  And the fractures that we generated to do it promise a far more fractured and interesting Atamara to play in.

And more than that, the rulers of Atamara know how bad things CAN get.  And we all know how hard we fought to mix things up.  If there is any island in Beluaterra less likely to have this problem crop up again it is Atamara.  Because we as a group, the rulers and the advisers and active nobles of just about every nation on the island, worked to break the problem.

I think it is an error to sink Atamara.  It has one of the best maps in the game.  And it has an effective and active player base devoted to a total war that promises to throw the entire continent into a new dark age of successor states to the grand League of the Eagle.

I think it is an error to throw that away and tell all those players they have to go somewhere else now.

jaune

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #23: December 07, 2015, 08:51:19 AM »
It was already agreed that Darka were about to being created. Azzal and Massilion would have seceded and form Darka.

Just few hours before announcment about the sinking i had sent message to Talerium Prime Minister if he had discussed yet about it with Tara & Rielston.

Oh wells.. .Let see if Darka will be created somewhere else.

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #24: December 07, 2015, 10:51:17 AM »
The Atamaran conspiracy continues.

Gabanus family

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #25: December 07, 2015, 11:47:07 AM »
I COULDN'T have done it any faster without making Tara target number one for the continent.

And without other rulers helping and proposing ideas as they did it never would have worked.  I could not have made the changes we did alone.  No way.  No how.

We all worked hard and long to turn Atamara around.

The story I just told was merely MY story of what I did.  And it is a very fragmentary one.  ;)

I most certainly did not "do" this.

We all did.


Well you always would've had Caergoth's support in such efforts to the grave and I'm pretty sure Minas Leon would have gladly assisted and Talerium would prob have stayed out. But yeah, that would still have been suicide prob. In the south (Suville/Caergoth) we had been attempting to find solution after solution to create fun for our players, which I think we did as well as possible.

But you're right, without a larger concencus that something had to happen, I'm not sure how far we'd gotten.
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Medron Pryde

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #26: December 07, 2015, 12:50:08 PM »
Unfortunately, I had successfully torpedoed Minas Leon and Taran relations before I had a chance to truly figure out what was going on.  Not returning Shanandoah to Minas Leon right away was probably the biggest mistake I made as Tyrant.  It robbed Tara of a lot of the moral high ground especially when Strombran started pulling their stuff with Caergoth.  And it alienated someone who could have been an ally if I'd been smarter.

And everyone was allied with Cagil or Strombran, so I judged that if I tried to push things right then Tara would have been attacked from the south, west, and north...and the army we could deploy at the time was pretty sucky...

The fact that Tara and Minas Leon got back to friendly relations at all is a bloody surprise to me after what I pulled there.  We were on the way towards mending fences, but that mistake on my part poisoned the well there for a good year.  If there is any single action I took as a Tyrant that I would reverse if I had the chance, that would be the one.

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #27: December 07, 2015, 01:36:42 PM »
Unfortunately, I had successfully torpedoed Minas Leon and Taran relations before I had a chance to truly figure out what was going on.  Not returning Shanandoah to Minas Leon right away was probably the biggest mistake I made as Tyrant.  It robbed Tara of a lot of the moral high ground especially when Strombran started pulling their stuff with Caergoth.  And it alienated someone who could have been an ally if I'd been smarter.

And everyone was allied with Cagil or Strombran, so I judged that if I tried to push things right then Tara would have been attacked from the south, west, and north...and the army we could deploy at the time was pretty sucky...

The fact that Tara and Minas Leon got back to friendly relations at all is a bloody surprise to me after what I pulled there.  We were on the way towards mending fences, but that mistake on my part poisoned the well there for a good year.  If there is any single action I took as a Tyrant that I would reverse if I had the chance, that would be the one.

Yeah you noticed that a bit late, hence my efforts to reconcile the two of you. Although CE really helped also with their 'let's turn ML into a toy' attitude.
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Ossan

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #28: December 07, 2015, 03:50:37 PM »
Jena Luc's war declaration letter was bloody embarrassing to read.
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Indirik

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Re: Darka's return?
« Reply #29: December 07, 2015, 04:21:05 PM »
It was hilarious, awesome, and depressing all at the same time.
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